76 replies to this topic

[Dragonporn]

Took a several months break from MWO, got back to it to see what changed. Well, seems like balance team still purposely or not doing exactly the opposite of their stated intentions a while ago.

My biggest and fattest gripe with this game is how dumbed down meta builds are. To be fair, it was like that since as long as I can remember, but nothing changes positively, and with small changes they made over particular time period, made those builds even more reliable. People say MWO is thinking man's shooter. But how much there's to think when you LMB, LMB and LMB your laservomit alpha, eat coolshot and LMB until target is dead? With faster heat dissipation changes few months back, it's even more shooty and less thinky. How fun is that really? How are players not getting bored with it in like few days of play? I can hardly remember shooter, where there's so little to manage, and you can just shoot all weapons constantly, shuffle, shoot some more. Not so long ago, high alphas still required at least some heat management, now you just shoot non stop. I have several Med Pulse laser mech builds, they are considerably overperforming any mix build mechs I've got. I can fire 3-4 alphas easily and with coolshot follow up with some more, which kills stuff real fast. Superhigh pinpoint damage. Most Lights leg go in one alpha, on Meds and some Heavies 2-3 good hits take out ST. This is BS.

To be frank, problem isn't weapon system, problem is design where, to be effective, you either pack all hardpoints with same weapon system, or you get very low DPS, and all mixed builds suck balls. Take dual HG, AC/UAC vomits, MG boats, LRM/ATM/SRM boats etc, etc. With latest changes to missiles and AMS, the did so you can't get away with few missile systems as a support anymore, you either bring max tubes, or you ditch them for something else you can stack. The funny fact is, even though LRMs are complete poop now, I still see a lot of LRM slinging from either side, and the "best" thing about it, that I see bigger mechs with Lurms to compensate with sheer tube count. Was that really intended "improvement" by balance team?...

Another gripe I have is match making. No, not that every QP is nascar competition, not even that nobody ever listens to comms, and not even that most folks doing their own thing far away from the team (while being Heavy or Assault) or the fact that teams are pretty much always unbalanced. I'm completely fine with all that. But, I do realize that player pop isn't high, so they have to make more room, but superheavy drops are killing matches. When there are 6-8 Assaults in the drop, add to it superhigh alphas of big boys along with fast heat vent, and not only smaller mechs get hurt, but freaking Assault turn to pile of ash from one focus strike. Twisting doesn't help, because damage is so brutal, it takes down your arm along with your CT in an instant. That's just stupid...

I do understand drastic changes to gameplay design is not be expected at this rate and lifecycle period of this game, but at the same time, there are thousands of ways you can just take from the top of your head, which would make mixed builds viable in an instant, penalize weapon system boating and address most issues coming from gameplay, revolving around only alpha strikes and superlow TTK this game is heavily suffer from IMO.

The question is, why so simple things are not even attempted? Why game moves even deeper into alpha-only territory and support weapon systems get completely irrelevant more and more? But most of all, what are your main gripes with MWO?

[Vxheous]

"Thinking man's shooter" doesn't only apply to weapon systems, and how many types of weapons you can manage on a mech. In fact, by being able to properly build a mech requires "thinking", which many that play this game can't theorycraft properly. The "thinking" part applies to how to engage, when to engage, how to disengage, etc. Do you even know how to properly trade, and shed damage? That's all part of thinking, that other FPS don't have due to most FPS having extremely low TTK (anywhere from 1-5 shot kills is pretty average for most FPS).

[Y E O N N E]

OP, why do people like you think "thinking man's shooter" means "complex juggling of controls"? The "thinking" part is about building your 'Mech to do a specific job and then figuring out how to get it into the right position to do that job. It's about managing resources like armor so you can make plays when they are most needed. It's about making sure you don't get into a spot where your output isn't high enough to stop the enemy.

Strategy and tactics, not "Oh, I need to press these buttons in this sequence!"

[Dragonporn]

Vxheous, on 05 April 2019 - 03:16 PM, said:

"Thinking man's shooter" doesn't only apply to weapon systems, and how many types of weapons you can manage on a mech. In fact, by being able to properly build a mech requires "thinking", which many that play this game can't theorycraft properly. The "thinking" part applies to how to engage, when to engage, how to disengage, etc. Do you even know how to properly trade, and shed damage? That's all part of thinking, that other FPS don't have due to most FPS having extremely low TTK (anywhere from 1-5 shot kills is pretty average for most FPS).

Meta is so painfully steamlined in this game, that's really hard to misjudge mech build (let alone skill tree) if you played for a month or so and looked up some builds in forums or other sites. In general FPS do have low TTK, such as CS, CoD or anything along those lines, but you play as a human model there. When giant mech gets killed almost as fast as human model, it kinda goes against the main impression. As for general FPS tactics, this knowledge is required in absolutely every shooter out there, but the fact that BT based game basically has no weapon system or heat management at this point, isn't very appealing, as well as constant alpha-striking and general MWO specific build design makes no sense either by gameplay perspective, or on basis this game is built on.

Y E O N N E, on 05 April 2019 - 03:19 PM, said:

OP, why do people like you think "thinking man's shooter" means "complex juggling of controls"? The "thinking" part is about building your 'Mech to do a specific job and then figuring out how to get it into the right position to do that job. It's about managing resources like armor so you can make plays when they are most needed. It's about making sure you don't get into a spot where your output isn't high enough to stop the enemy.

Strategy and tactics, not "Oh, I need to press these buttons in this sequence!"

There's no other job than to kill other mechs, seriously dude...

Edited by Dragonporn, 05 April 2019 - 03:26 PM.

[Vxheous]

Dragonporn, on 05 April 2019 - 03:25 PM, said:

Meta is so painfully steamlined in this game, that's really hard to misjudge mech build (let alone skill tree) if you played for a month or so and looked up some builds in forums or other sites. In general FPS do have low TTK, such as CS, CoD or anything along those lines, but you play as a human model there. When giant mech gets killed almost as fast as human model, it kinda goes against the main impression. As for general FPS tactics, this knowledge is required in absolutely every shooter out there, but the fact that BT based game basically has no weapon system or heat management at this point, isn't very appealing, as well as constant alpha-striking and general MWO specific build design makes no sense either by gameplay perspective, or on basis this game is built on.


There's no other job than to kill other mechs, seriously dude...

You don't get killed in the same time as any of those FPS, unless you're stupid and NSR into a firing line by yourself

[Valdarion Silarius]

My biggest gripes are nascar and the nerfs to weapon systems in the name of balance™. I'd wish PGI would give up on the balancing e-sports aspect of the game, since that ship has sailed long ago and they should be focusing on what makes the game fun with what little time they have left with the IP. Revert the clan laser nerfs, get rid of the god awful gauss rifle charge up times (while giving them longer cool down between shots), buff all of the laser ranges for IS and Clans, and solely focus on making what makes the game fun and adjust it accordingly so nothing feels too overpowered. Slowly add in new weapon like HAG's and X-pulse laser systems to encourage new build variety, less stale game play and to shake up the meta a bit.

In terms of nascar I'm not sure what they can do. The only thing I can think of is perhaps letting slower mechs spawn closer to the front line when they spawn, while letting more people apt to nascar back to the rear in certain maps and game modes that encourage nascar. Any mech that goes less than 64.8 kmph should spawn farther ahead as opposed to the faster mechs.

[Jman5]

Dragonporn, on 05 April 2019 - 03:25 PM, said:

There's no other job than to kill other mechs, seriously dude...

And how you do that better than your opponent is where the thinking comes in.

[FupDup]

I'm going to address the title of the thread rather than the OP's specific gripe.

My current main annoyance is the overall lack of caring PGI shows when it comes to buffing bad robots. It would be one thing if they made continuous attempts but failed, because then I'd at least have hope that they could eventually get it right. But they don't do it continually. When they do finally buff a mech, it's either giving mobility to mechs wthat already have good mobility but suck because of different reasons (Executioner) or giving stupid Ghost Heat Limit quirks that will never have any impact on anything ever (Hellspawn with 5 LRM5s).

[Y E O N N E]

Dragonporn, on 05 April 2019 - 03:25 PM, said:

There's no other job than to kill other mechs, seriously dude...

And? That's the point of the game. No matter what other objectives you add, good or bad, the intrigue is still the combat. Are you thinking about how you approach combat match to match or just stupidly pressing W and LMB?

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 05 April 2019 - 04:22 PM, said:

or giving stupid Ghost Heat Limit quirks that will never have any impact on anything ever (Hellspawn with 5 LRM5s).

Or ERPPC HSL+1 on the NSR-9J, which could already do a 40-point PPFLD alpha without that help and still sucked...also those HSL quirks do nothing to make the NSR-9P, NSR-9FC, and NSR-10P suck less.

/rabble rabble

[FupDup]

Y E O N N E, on 05 April 2019 - 04:42 PM, said:

Or ERPPC HSL+1 on the NSR-9J, which could already do a 40-point PPFLD alpha without that help and still sucked...also those HSL quirks do nothing to make the NSR-9P, NSR-9FC, and NSR-10P suck less.

/rabble rabble

I guess I should clarify that I don't have any grudge against flavor quirks like HSL (I seriously hate that abbreviation because I always think it's HEAVY SMALL LASER)...I just hate when PGI uses that as an excuse to buff bad robots without actually buffing them. They should not be used a substitute for real quirks that actually improve mech viability. Actual stronk quirks should come first, then flavor quirks can be used as the sprinkles on top when the mech is good in general.

Edited by FupDup, 05 April 2019 - 04:47 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 05 April 2019 - 04:45 PM, said:

I guess I should clarify that I don't have any grudge against flavor quirks like HSL (I seriously hate that abbreviation because I already think it's HEAVY SMALL LASER)...I just hate when PGI uses that as an excuse to buff bad robots without actually buffing them. They should not be used a substitute for real quirks that actually improve mech viability.

Agree 100%, though I will confess that the UAC/20 HSL+1 on the NSR-9S absolutely did improve its viability...just not quite enough IMHO. The range is too short, honestly.

HSL can be a real quirk, they can be a sidegrade quirk. Depends on the robbit.

[Dragonporn]

Vxheous, on 05 April 2019 - 03:50 PM, said:

You don't get killed in the same time as any of those FPS, unless you're stupid and NSR into a firing line by yourself

Well, I do kill some Lights and even Mediums in 2-3 alpha-strikes. Some dual HG builds can easily kill stuff in one hit, and those are stupidly easy to land... Since we're talking slow moving machines with 12 players on each side, it's easy to eat 2-3 mechs focus, which kills at once, during push on either side, let's not ignore regular gameplay situations. To discard the ability to reliably score headshots (which is arguable), as in other shooters, overall TTK is mostly the same, especially with recent montly changes and the fact that pretty much every other mech runs either laservomit or dual HG these days.

Y E O N N E, on 05 April 2019 - 04:39 PM, said:

And? That's the point of the game. No matter what other objectives you add, good or bad, the intrigue is still the combat. Are you thinking about how you approach combat match to match or just stupidly pressing W and LMB?

Let's pretend you had several more things to keep track of, normal for BT, such as heat generation-dissipation, what weapon system to use at which range, not like: "oh, I'm in range and this guy looking the other way, time to LMB him to death!". Packed with 6-7 same lasers and LMB-ing them can get really old, well for me at least, not sure about others. Even if you think you're doing some tactical genius moves while you're shuffling inside your deathball. Game has been on for quite a while, "tactics" for each map are set, so pretty much every round is like mirror copy of another, so there's little "combat intrigue" going on, eh? If we take QP, which has amazing quirk (for me) so that not 100% of players run dull meta, and varied builds of mechs is what makes this game shine the most IMO, but more and more players bring "optimized" builds, because nothing else works, and it makes gameplay pretty ******* boring at times, along with non-stop pew-pew as soon as you're in range.

Not trying to say this game is total garbage or anything. After long break, it's still has some potential to be fun, and I like MWO, not to mention it's the only BT first-person modern action game about big stompy mechs on the market, which I enjoy big time, but it could be better, more BT like, no?

[LordNothing]

lack of development.

[LordNothing]

Vxheous, on 05 April 2019 - 03:16 PM, said:

"Thinking man's shooter" doesn't only apply to weapon systems, and how many types of weapons you can manage on a mech. In fact, by being able to properly build a mech requires "thinking", which many that play this game can't theorycraft properly. The "thinking" part applies to how to engage, when to engage, how to disengage, etc. Do you even know how to properly trade, and shed damage? That's all part of thinking, that other FPS don't have due to most FPS having extremely low TTK (anywhere from 1-5 shot kills is pretty average for most FPS).

i have a problem with the phrase "thinking man's ________". it just reeks of wannabe intellectualism. its a phrase used by people who want to think they are smarter than they actually are and used to describe things that aren't as well thought out as they think it is. besides a real intelectual would spend 2 hours trying to explain how some people have female organs and insist on using the phrase "thinking person's _______" without altering the wankiness of it one one bit. real thinking people dont have time for any of that bs.

Edited by LordNothing, 05 April 2019 - 06:35 PM.

[kuma8877]

Dragonporn, on 05 April 2019 - 05:06 PM, said:

Well, I do kill some Lights and even Mediums in 2-3 alpha-strikes. Some dual HG builds can easily kill stuff in one hit, and those are stupidly easy to land... Since we're talking slow moving machines with 12 players on each side, it's easy to eat 2-3 mechs focus, which kills at once, during push on either side, let's not ignore regular gameplay situations. To discard the ability to reliably score headshots (which is arguable), as in other shooters, overall TTK is mostly the same, especially with recent montly changes and the fact that pretty much every other mech runs either laservomit or dual HG these days.


Let's pretend you had several more things to keep track of, normal for BT, such as heat generation-dissipation, what weapon system to use at which range, not like: "oh, I'm in range and this guy looking the other way, time to LMB him to death!". Packed with 6-7 same lasers and LMB-ing them can get really old, well for me at least, not sure about others. Even if you think you're doing some tactical genius moves while you're shuffling inside your deathball. Game has been on for quite a while, "tactics" for each map are set, so pretty much every round is like mirror copy of another, so there's little "combat intrigue" going on, eh? If we take QP, which has amazing quirk (for me) so that not 100% of players run dull meta, and varied builds of mechs is what makes this game shine the most IMO, but more and more players bring "optimized" builds, because nothing else works, and it makes gameplay pretty ******* boring at times, along with non-stop pew-pew as soon as you're in range.

Not trying to say this game is total garbage or anything. After long break, it's still has some potential to be fun, and I like MWO, not to mention it's the only BT first-person modern action game about big stompy mechs on the market, which I enjoy big time, but it could be better, more BT like, no?

I don't know, you could try other styles of play. I've been eating a lot of the W and LMB meta builds with SRMs and ballistics for the last couple of patches just fine in solo. SQ is a bit more what you make it I think.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Biggest gripe? How PGI killed off the last bit of flavor and fluff from community warfare, faction warfare, i mean faction play.. ah well that quickplay 2.0 thingy with respawn..

FupDup, on 05 April 2019 - 04:22 PM, said:

or giving stupid Ghost Heat Limit quirks that will never have any impact on anything ever

Might not be for every mech but awesome with triple HPPC is pretty darn neet imo.

Edited by Toha Heavy Industries, 05 April 2019 - 06:51 PM.

[GuardDogg]

Nascar is mine, many have made posts on it for tactical, and requests for Commanders. It is a lost battle. Another I say, how are pilots hitting targets and their reticle are not on the targets. Their reticles is 3-5 feet in front or behind target and getting hits. Doesn't make sense. I have watched team mates do this. This could be happening to you, or others.

[FupDup]

Toha Heavy Industries, on 05 April 2019 - 06:49 PM, said:

Might not be for every mech but awesome with triple HPPC is pretty darn neet imo.

That's the main exception to the rule, and it wasn't even intentional at first (PGI made the bug into a feature because the forums wanted it).

[FinnMcKool]

I think they should give free hero mechs to all the women , try to get more of them to play.
Plus it would me nice if I could get my rewards that it says I redeemed but didnt get.