45 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

V A P O R F L O W, on 06 April 2019 - 04:44 PM, said:

One thing I'm sure everyone would love to see in game is the Arrow IV Artillery.

Hell no. We have enough strike spam already. The last thing we need is more of it.

Edited by Appogee, 06 April 2019 - 09:04 PM.

[Khobai]

FupDup, on 06 April 2019 - 09:02 PM, said:

The main gun would have to shrunken to 10 slots to fit the arms. The side torso filler items would be completely separate and unconnected to the main gun item.

but the overall weapon system would still take up 15 crits and 15 tons with the filler part included. So its not being shrunken down. It still takes up the same overall crits/tonnage it should.

big deal you cant crit the torso part of the weapon, that doesnt matter because of how easy it is to destroy side torsos anyway. and if you blow up the side torso the arm goes with it anyway...

you are letting irrelevant details get in the way of not adding the weapon.

the only hope we have of ever seeing ARROWIV in the game is if PGI can add it with a minimal amount of effort.

you expect PGI to do all kinds of special coding and create hundreds of arrowIV meshes for every single mech. And thats not realistic and isnt gonna happen. My way at least makes it possible.

Edited by Khobai, 06 April 2019 - 09:12 PM.

[Requiemking]

Khobai, on 06 April 2019 - 08:37 PM, said:

because otherwise they would have to create an ARROWIV weapon mesh for every single mech in the game. That is super time consuming and the main reason we dont often get new weapons.

by limiting arrowIV to two specific mechs and making it a hardwired system it significantly reduces the amount of work required to add it to the game.

But, why? Clan Arrow IV is 12 slots as opposed to the IS version's 15 slots, and since there are no Clan Omnimechs with enough podspace in the ST to mount an Arrow IV, they would only have to make meshes for Clan Battlemechs that can mount missiles in the ST.

[Khobai]

Requiemking, on 06 April 2019 - 09:13 PM, said:

But, why? Clan Arrow IV is 12 slots as opposed to the IS version's 15 slots, and since there are no Clan Omnimechs with enough podspace in the ST to mount an Arrow IV, they would only have to make meshes for Clan Battlemechs that can mount missiles in the ST.

Thats still way more than 2 weapon meshes.

If they do it my way they only need to make 2.

2222222222222

2 is way less than having to make a weapon mesh for every single mech that can mount ARROWIV.

again its about getting ARROWIV into the game with the least possible amount of effort on PGI's part. Because if they have to expend anymore than minimal effort its never going to happen. Its PGI...

The bare minimum amount of work required to add ARROWIV to both IS and Clans would be: 1 new mech (naga), 1 new variant of an existing mech (catapult c3), 2 new weapon meshes, and the ARROWIV weapon system itself. And using some "tomfoolery" with the existing system to make it work without any new special coding required. Thats literally the bare minimum, fastest, easiest way to get ARROWIV into the game.

Edited by Khobai, 06 April 2019 - 09:21 PM.

[Requiemking]

Khobai, on 06 April 2019 - 09:16 PM, said:

Thats still way more than 2 weapon meshes.

If they do it my way they only need to make 2.

2222222222222

2 is less than having to make a weapon mesh for every single mech that can mount ARROWIV.

And? People would complain about the clan version being usable on mechs other than the Naga, then PGI would have to make it usable on those mechs anyways. Plus, if they just make it exclusive to the mechs that can mount it without critsplitting, it means less messing with spaghetti code, which is probably harder for PGI than making a few weapon meshes.

Edited by Requiemking, 06 April 2019 - 09:19 PM.

[Khobai]

Requiemking, on 06 April 2019 - 09:19 PM, said:

And? People would complain about the clan version being usable on mechs other than the Naga, then PGI would have to make it usable on those mechs anyways. Plus, if they just make it exclusive to the mechs that can mount it without critsplitting, it means less messing with spaghetti code, which is probably harder for PGI than making a few weapon meshes.

I already said only the naga and catapult C3 would be able to use arrowIV.

Other clan mechs would not be able to use it. It would be hardwired to the naga and catapult. thats the whole point of hardwiring the weapon system. it would be locked on those two chassis, could not be removed, and no other chassis could equip it. If you want to use ARROWIV youd have to use one of those two mechs.

And possibly down the road PGI could add other ARROWIV mechs like the thunderhawk so IS could have a mech with two ARROWIVs. But the catapult-C3 variant is the easiest/fastest way to get it into the game on the IS side since the catapult already exists.

Once PGI has to get into making dozens of weapon meshes just to add a single weapon its no longer worth it for them to add new weapons to the game. Which is exactly why we never get new weapons... which is also why initially limiting ARROWIV to only two mechs would make it reasonable to add to the game.

Edited by Khobai, 06 April 2019 - 09:28 PM.

[Requiemking]

Khobai, on 06 April 2019 - 09:23 PM, said:

I already said only the naga and catapult C3 would be able to use arrowIV.

But, why? Clan Arrow IV fits within MWO's building limits without anything weird being done to it, in theory allowing you to mount one on any Clan mech that has a completely open ST with a missile hardpoint. I see no reason for the Naga being added except for nostalgia over a mech that played very little part in the lore and, coding-wise, is probably more trouble than it's worth.

[Khobai]

Requiemking, on 06 April 2019 - 09:26 PM, said:

But, why? Clan Arrow IV fits within MWO's building limits without anything weird being done to it, in theory allowing you to mount one on any Clan mech that has a completely open ST with a missile hardpoint. I see no reason for the Naga being added except for nostalgia over a mech that played very little part in the lore and, coding-wise, is probably more trouble than it's worth.

I already explained why. Its not cost effective for PGI to make dozens of weapon meshes just to add a single weapon to the game. there is no monetary gain in that.

PGI would rather spend their artists' time on pushing out new mech packs than designing weapon meshes for a new weapon that isnt monetized.

Requiemking, on 06 April 2019 - 09:26 PM, said:

in theory allowing you to mount one on any Clan mech that has a completely open ST with a missile hardpoint.

an ARROWIV is a friggin cruise missile. it needs visual representation on a whole different level from an SRM... it absolutely needs its own custom weapon mesh to represent how massive of a missile it is. And theyd have to create and size those meshes for every single mech that could use ARROWIV. its not worth it for them to do that. Even doing that for two mechs is a huge ordeal... let alone dozens of mechs.

now I suppose if you wanted to take a shortcut and just have it use an SRM mesh you could... but even PGI has the sense not to do something that cheap.

Requiemking, on 06 April 2019 - 09:26 PM, said:

I see no reason for the Naga being added

because the naga can fit its ARROWIV in its arms. thats the reason.

the naga is by far the best choice on the clan side for an ARROWIV mech. as far as mechs go that are actually supposed to use ARROWIV. And not just sticking ARROWIV on things it doesnt belong on. yeah you could turn the kodiak in an ARROWIV mech. thats really dumb though.

plus the naga is a mechpack that would actually sell if it had ARROWIV. and it would sell in record numbers.

on the IS side you could introduce the catapult C3 as a free new variant so theres no pay2win accusations around ARROWIV.

Edited by Khobai, 06 April 2019 - 09:42 PM.

[Requiemking]

Khobai, on 06 April 2019 - 09:31 PM, said:

I already explained why. Its not cost effective for PGI to make dozens of weapon meshes just to add a single weapon to the game. there is no monetary gain in that.

PGI would rather spend their artists' time on pushing out new mech packs than designing weapon meshes for a new weapon that isnt monetized.

But if the playerbase is clamoring for new weapons, and said mechpack requires the coders to unravel spaghetti code, versus plopping a weapon mesh on a few mechs then releasing a Pirahnatech pack of C ARROWIV-toting clan battlemech variants to sell, which do you think PGI is gonna do?

Edited by Requiemking, 06 April 2019 - 09:34 PM.

[Khobai]

Requiemking, on 06 April 2019 - 09:34 PM, said:

But if the playerbase is clamoring for new weapons, and said mechpack requires the coders to unravel spaghetti code, versus plopping a weapon mesh on a few mechs then releasing a Pirahnatech pack of C ARROWIV-toting clan battlemech variants to sell, which do you think PGI is gonna do?

the player base has been asking for new content, including new weapons, for years

what PGI is gonna do is ignore them, not add any new content, and continue pushing mech packs. like they always do

when was the last time we even got a new map? In fact, PGI's idea of adding new maps has gotten so bad, theyre now releasing old versions of existing maps and acting like theyre "new". lmao.

Im not sure why you think PGI is suddenly going to deviate from their established five year pattern of not caring and start actually giving a !@#$ about what the players want and add new content with actual effort put into it. theyre not. it wont happen. Because thats not how PGI does things. What PGI does is push mechpacks. Period.

the only way to convince PGI to give us ARROWIV is if they can tie it in with selling mechpacks. Specifically the Naga. And the only way theyll do that is if they can push out the Naga/ARROWIV with minimal effort on their part.

to reiterate, unless its a mechpack, helps sell more mechpacks, or is some other monetized feature, PGI isnt gonna do it. we cant even get them to fix core balance issues or give us a working matchmaker. Let alone give us new content... but I think PGI might be receptive to adding ARROWIV if they were guaranteed to sell a whole lot of Nagas.

Edited by Khobai, 07 April 2019 - 12:42 AM.

[Curccu]

Khobai, on 07 April 2019 - 12:15 AM, said:

the player base has been asking for new content, including new weapons, for years

And less than two Years ago we got a lot of new weapons.

Khobai, on 07 April 2019 - 12:15 AM, said:

when was the last time we even got a new map? In fact, PGI's idea of adding new maps has gotten so bad, theyre now releasing old versions of existing maps and acting like theyre "new". lmao.

the player base has been asking for old maps to be playable again, for years

[The6thMessenger]

FupDup, on 06 April 2019 - 08:46 PM, said:

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the coding required to make a hardwired Arrow IV would, by definition, require the coding a weapon that could be technically mounted on any mech (even if you choose to restrict it like MASC or ECM). Hardwiring is a property set on the chassis level, not the equipment level.


Any item that takes more than 12 slots has to be either shrunken or split in order to fit the current mechlab limitations. Hardwiring doesn't change the mechlab mechanics and limits.

I was under the impression that PGI could not code crit-splitting DYNAMICALLY, cause they suck like that.

But if it's just a hardwired equipment, with locked equipment slots PGI could just put a dummy slot-blocker on the ST and put a locked weapon on the arms.

I want that ARROW IV Urbie.

[Hauptmann Keg Steiner]

Wish they would just shrink some crit slots down here and there. Lord knows the IS LB20X could use it.

[Khobai]

Curccu, on 07 April 2019 - 01:45 AM, said:

And less than two Years ago we got a lot of new weapons.


the player base has been asking for old maps to be playable again, for years

lol two years ago. thanks for proving my point.

[Battlemaster56]

Wouldn't crit splitting be somewhat possible if they copy something like xl lfe slots but instead of crits in two ST's and the rest in CT, be most in the arm the rest in the adjacent ST or majority in ST rest fitted in the CT.

If possible be nice to see it tested.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

do-able or not, another IDF-weapon surely doesn't encourage the then-fewer frontliners to hold your locks..

for purely gameplay reasons, I personally don't want to see the arrow in the game.

related, I think that in order to rain down an arty/airstrike, it'd be fair to "must-have a TAG equipped". just so that it actually costs something for everybody; not just some meaningless CBills half the community drowns in, while the other half starves of them.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 08 April 2019 - 04:47 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

If tag is a must have for arty and airstrikes then everyone will just drop the consumables and put what sp they had for extra for other nodes. Knowing players they not gonna compromise their builds just for one or two meger strikes.

[GuardDogg]

Surprised we have not seen Long Toms (tiny nukes) in MWO. Maybe to much to program or will a lot of angry pilots uninstalling.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Battlemaster56, on 08 April 2019 - 05:38 AM, said:

If tag is a must have for arty and airstrikes then everyone will just drop the consumables and put what sp they had for extra for other nodes. Knowing players they not gonna compromise their builds just for one or two meger strikes.

I don't know.. basically 'free damage' and the almighty-damage-epeen is a thing, as we all know.

[LordNothing]

FupDup, on 06 April 2019 - 06:10 PM, said:

The way TT does it is by splitting the critical slots between multiple body locations. MWO probably won't ever get that feature either.

all the reason why a crit count exception is a better option. crit splitting proper would be a better idea. pgi's idea is to simply do nothing to avoid opening a can of worms.

then there is that old joke about pgi not being able to understand anything you cant fit in a twitter post, or simply being unwilling to read it. thus all the stupid one paragraph whines get through and none of the well thought out ideas proposed by the community ever gets eyes.