73 replies to this topic

[Nesutizale]

There are three other alternatives to strikes and the Arrow IV.

Artillerie Cannons

Artillery Cannons are variations of standard artillery pieces. These smaller, snub-nosed versions of Long Toms, Snipers and Thumpers provide for area-effect fire at the expense of their typical firing range.
Tradeoff would be that these are heavy and I think the Longtom would have the problem that its not fitting into a mech as it would need to be split.
Still the smaller versions could be of interest IF a player would be willing to sacrifice a lot of other options of equipment. You would be quite fixed to your specific role.
Also it would be problematic on how to aim these. Do we use an LRM kinda way or does the Pilot has to see where he is shooting at like with normal strikes? I would prefere later as the advantage of beeing able to fire several shots should be taken with a risk


Thunderbolt missile launcher

This is basicly an LRM that fires one missile instead of several. Add some splash damage and the option to shoot at the ground when you have line of sight and you have a mini artillery. Drawback would be that AMS could shoot it down pretty fast, one would have to balance that out.
Still it would be a nice alternative to LRMs and players could use them in a more traditinal way as LRMs, so not to become totaly useless/overspecialised.


Swarm-I LRM Ammo

This is a bit of an odd thing. You fire your missiles like a normal LRM BUT instead of hitting the target the missiles break up into a swarm, hence the name, of small missiles that try to find their targets.
The way that could work for MWO could be that you combine the LB-X and LRM. You fire your missiles as usual and...lets say 100m above the target the missile will be replaced with a spread of projectiles like the LB-X spread. That way you would hit, in a small radius, targets in addition to your primary target. I think that wouldn't make the missile to powerfull but at the same time be usefull to break up enemys that are standing to close together.

Else the original way the Swarm is discribed is that all missiles that don't hit the target hit something next to it. Kinda like a Streak that hits multiple targets instead of one. That could also be an interesting option but I think would make the missiles to powerfull.

[FupDup]

Nesutizale, on 11 April 2019 - 03:26 PM, said:

There are three other alternatives to strikes and the Arrow IV.

Artillerie Cannons

Artillery Cannons are variations of standard artillery pieces. These smaller, snub-nosed versions of Long Toms, Snipers and Thumpers provide for area-effect fire at the expense of their typical firing range.
Tradeoff would be that these are heavy and I think the Longtom would have the problem that its not fitting into a mech as it would need to be split.
Still the smaller versions could be of interest IF a player would be willing to sacrifice a lot of other options of equipment. You would be quite fixed to your specific role.
Also it would be problematic on how to aim these. Do we use an LRM kinda way or does the Pilot has to see where he is shooting at like with normal strikes? I would prefere later as the advantage of beeing able to fire several shots should be taken with a risk


Thunderbolt missile launcher

This is basicly an LRM that fires one missile instead of several. Add some splash damage and the option to shoot at the ground when you have line of sight and you have a mini artillery. Drawback would be that AMS could shoot it down pretty fast, one would have to balance that out.
Still it would be a nice alternative to LRMs and players could use them in a more traditinal way as LRMs, so not to become totaly useless/overspecialised.


Swarm-I LRM Ammo

This is a bit of an odd thing. You fire your missiles like a normal LRM BUT instead of hitting the target the missiles break up into a swarm, hence the name, of small missiles that try to find their targets.
The way that could work for MWO could be that you combine the LB-X and LRM. You fire your missiles as usual and...lets say 100m above the target the missile will be replaced with a spread of projectiles like the LB-X spread. That way you would hit, in a small radius, targets in addition to your primary target. I think that wouldn't make the missile to powerfull but at the same time be usefull to break up enemys that are standing to close together.

Else the original way the Swarm is discribed is that all missiles that don't hit the target hit something next to it. Kinda like a Streak that hits multiple targets instead of one. That could also be an interesting option but I think would make the missiles to powerfull.

Mech Mortars too!

For aiming mortars and other artillery they should just be direct fire weapons with a parabolic arc. To make the shots go over hills you have to aim high above your intended target. Just like the Long Tom in MW4.

Edited by FupDup, 11 April 2019 - 03:37 PM.

[Nesutizale]

I would love to see a mode where you bring your mech in firing position, then switch to the battlegrid to setup shots to be fired. You would be stationary and have to rely on your teammates for setting up where to shoot but it could be a nice tradeoff.
Add a function for a second Pilot with the Command Console and you would give that also a reason to exist.
That would be one hell of a thing for FW, I would say. A good team with a commander that can concentrate on the battlegrid and order strikes from the command mech while someone else is driving it....one can only dream.

[Avlaen]

Id rather the horrible consumable system gets removed one day...

[Nesutizale]

Yah but I would like a replacement for it because it still works to break up entranched / groups of mechs.

[HammerMaster]

Remove. Done.

[Prototelis]

^No.

[VitriolicViolet]

i dont really see them as being a problem, i only get hit by strikes one in 4 games or less and im piloting assaults at the moment.

Its just not much of an issue.

[HammerMaster]

Prototelis, on 12 April 2019 - 03:28 PM, said:

^No.

< ^ >
Weee I have arrows too!
Also as always. A difference of opinion.

VitriolicViolet, on 12 April 2019 - 03:43 PM, said:

i dont really see them as being a problem, i only get hit by strikes one in 4 games or less and im piloting assaults at the moment.

Its just not much of an issue.

For me its not so much the frequency (albeit annoying), its the fact that its watered down drek. That's someones job on the battlefield to direct and send artillery. No one is available due to mechanics and what not. And you sure as heck shouldn't be getting ANY credit for damage. YOU DIDN'T DO IT. Never mind the other bs no slot/tons consumables. It matters ZERO to me that in theory I could use it to.
IMPROPERLY Implemented.

Edited by HammerMaster, 12 April 2019 - 04:35 PM.

[Dee Eight]

I get strike kills daily largely because 99% of players behave like lemmings following predictable patterns. I got one on Mining Collective about 10 hours ago of a HTM-27T(S) who apparently skimped on his rear torso armor, because after doing the usual skirmish mode march to the E4 corner he and nine others of his team just collectively stood there long enough for the 10 seconds delay on the red smoke to produce bomblets onto the ball of targets. This was sixty seconds into the match, and boom they're short an 80 ton assault mech.

Now strikes do a maximum of 15 damage per component location per hit, and thus to detonate a fresh mech with one requires stripping the armor off a location and then having enough damage remaining to also strip away valuable structure or to detonate something explosive via a critical hit. Now a side torso loss for example on a light mech with an XL or LFE (running hot) is one way to do it. Another is to hit ammunition in a section that can ill afford being detonated, again say because someone put an XL engine onto their assault mech and then transferred most of the side torso armor to the front and forgot the fact that the CASE just prevents damage transfer... it doesn't prevent ammo explosions from ripping out all the internal structure in that location.

Now back to that morning mining collective match... i then typed in all chat...

"Strike kill.... never stand still on the E4 corner"

And then most of the enemy team moved from that spot...everyone except for a bushwacker and fafnir who then got hit by my next strike... and they still stayed there. With their backs to me, ignoring their HUD info showing they were being hit from behind... and after I killed the fafnir i typed...

"what did I say about not standing still at E4 ?"

Edited by Dee Eight, 12 April 2019 - 04:40 PM.

[Prototelis]

Please stop advocating against front loading.

Strike kills have almost nothing to do with limited back armor, that dude ate it because he was unlucky and you know it.

[Dee Eight]

Prototelis, on 12 April 2019 - 04:45 PM, said:

Please stop advocating against front loading.

Strike kills have almost nothing to do with limited back armor, that dude ate it because he was unlucky and you know it.

Well...you can keep on thinking that but those of us who know better will just go on getting kills against people who front load.

[YueFei]

Dee Eight, on 12 April 2019 - 05:30 PM, said:

Well...you can keep on thinking that but those of us who know better will just go on getting kills against people who front load.

I just lean backward so the bombs land on my front armor.

If I'm aware of a strike incoming I tend to look upward anyways, in the case that it's an airstrike I can try to gauge it's trajectory if I can spot the inbound aircraft.

[Nesutizale]

YueFei, on 12 April 2019 - 08:39 PM, said:

I just lean backward so the bombs land on my front armor.

Just imagne it on the battlefield: "Look there are bombs incomming I will catch them with my face" *HEADSHOT*

[Dee Eight]

Nesutizale, on 13 April 2019 - 03:55 AM, said:

Just imagne it on the battlefield: "Look there are bombs incomming I will catch them with my face" *HEADSHOT*

They removed the ability for strike bomblets to critical hit the head over a year ago (so that ton of ammo you had there isn't going to explode from an airstrike to the face) but the blasts can still damage the head normally. So if you happened to be one of those players without any head armor at all at the start of the match, and you then received a strike bomblet right to the head box.... and only had the base 15 structure...hasta la vista baby.

[Weeny Machine]

PhoenixFire55, on 11 April 2019 - 12:09 AM, said:

Pro tip ... stepping more than 50m away from your teammates doesn't sunndely make you dead. Do it, and strikes suddenly stop being a problem.

Awww could you shove your ***** elitist attitude for once?

There are more problems than meets the eye. Sometimes strikes are place in spots where you can't see them and they "punch through" obstacles which would usually protect you - for a heavy or assault that's not much of a problem. A light mech, however, looks pretty shredded

Yeah, we are just mortals and do not have your complete unfailable 360 degree awareness of our surroundings

Edited by Bush Hopper, 13 April 2019 - 04:37 AM.

[Horseman]

Bush Hopper, on 13 April 2019 - 04:33 AM, said:

Awww could you shove your ***** elitist attitude for once?

He is one hundred percent right about that. If you're hugging teammates, you invite having a strike dropped on you whereas a wider formation presents fewer good targets for them and less potential damage those strikes can deal to your team.

Edited by Horseman, 13 April 2019 - 05:00 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Horseman, on 13 April 2019 - 05:00 AM, said:

He is one hundred percent right about that. If you're hugging teammates, you invite having a strike dropped on you whereas a wider formation presents fewer good targets for them and less potential damage those strikes can deal to your team.

I rarely see that happen. The exception is Mining Colony and now also Forest Colony Classic - the latter also only when people hide like moles.

That being said, the strike spam is a problem for the lower weight classes.

[Khobai]

Bush Hopper, on 13 April 2019 - 04:33 AM, said:

Awww could you shove your ***** elitist attitude for once?

There are more problems than meets the eye. Sometimes strikes are place in spots where you can't see them and they "punch through" obstacles which would usually protect you - for a heavy or assault that's not much of a problem. A light mech, however, looks pretty shredded

Yeah, we are just mortals and do not have your complete unfailable 360 degree awareness of our surroundings

phoenix is an idiot ignore him.

strikes absolutely have problems like not being able to see the redsmoke, going through cover, and sometimes its just physically impossible to walk out of the radius in time.

And the spammability is still the biggest issue of all. A while ago PGI limited strikes to 1 per mech. But then they forgot why they limited them to 1 per mech and allowed multiple strikes per mech again.

Im convinced the best solution for strikes is just to remove them from the game completely. And add mech-based artillery weapons instead. Let the players themselves fill the support fire role. Because at least then theres a considerable crit/tonnage cost associated with the artillery weapons and you have to protect your artillery mechs.

Edited by Khobai, 13 April 2019 - 02:04 PM.

[Ssamout]

Khobai, on 13 April 2019 - 01:59 PM, said:

phoenix is an idiot ignore him.

.. said khobai ... lol