So, we all know the dreaded Savannah Master, the 5 ton Hovercraft that is seen as one of the most disrespectful things to field alongside the Rifleman IIC. However, perusing Sarna has lead me to another 5 ton annoyance, the Gabriel. A better Savannah Master in nearly every way(it's even less intensive than the other 5 tonner under BV 2.0), but I rarely see people talking about it. So, I guess my question is, which would you fear more? A swarm of Savannah Masters, or a swarm of Gabriels?
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Gabriel Vs Savannah Master
Started by Requiemking, Apr 12 2019 08:53 PM
26 replies to this topic
#1
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- The Solitary
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Posted 12 April 2019 - 08:53 PM
#2
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Posted 12 April 2019 - 09:01 PM
Define "Swarm"...
and I'll have my answer by tomorrow based on which one I fail to survive.
and I'll have my answer by tomorrow based on which one I fail to survive.
#3
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Posted 12 April 2019 - 09:07 PM
Koniving, on 12 April 2019 - 09:01 PM, said:
Define "Swarm"...
and I'll have my answer by tomorrow based on which one I fail to survive.
and I'll have my answer by tomorrow based on which one I fail to survive.
Say 3 standard IS lances. I would say more, but these are fast-moving 5 ton hovercrafts.
#5
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Posted 12 April 2019 - 09:20 PM
Koniving, on 12 April 2019 - 09:16 PM, said:
So 12, then?
Yup. Again, I was gonna suggest 5 lances due to the default variant of both Hovers mounting just one medium laser, but then I remembered that both move over 200 KPH and thus became very annoying en-mass, so I dropped it to 3 lances.
#6
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Posted 12 April 2019 - 09:45 PM
Will try both ways.
Maybe one mech against 3 lances. Two against 5 lances.
If they turn out to be too easy, I'll make life even more difficult.
And if they turn out to be too hard, welp life'll get interesting.
Maybe one mech against 3 lances. Two against 5 lances.
If they turn out to be too easy, I'll make life even more difficult.
And if they turn out to be too hard, welp life'll get interesting.
#7
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Posted 13 April 2019 - 03:14 PM
Redoing megamek after anything colossal happening is a royal pain as I insist on both using the developmental release for all the latest, as well as customized content. I tend to go in, augment the design quirks already put in with those from the Battletech Battlemech Manual (2k18) in addition to those that are either fluffed or believed should be included, such as MG overheating jam tendencies for those with them and a number of other little things so that those are present whenever I jump into a fight even against the bot. There's also a plethora of custom units, from an expansion on civilian vehicles to include not only individual vehicles but small columns of traffic, crowds in busy places, etc., as it has become somewhat popular among some friends and I to play a civilian police force.
Its both satisfying and terrifying, to know that pursuit of some crook running across a busy street ends up causing cars to swirve and slam into things, that vehicles are flipping over, that a semi pops three tires and rolls onto its side burrowing through 3 other vehicles before hitting a nearby Starbucks...and nearby pedestrians are fleeing about in terror which further complicates the scene for those chasing the crook whom...don't have the luxury off carelessly adding to the collateral damage.
So, when my hard drive fried I pretty much hung up all my plans in regards to those things...because getting back to that point was going to be a royal pain. The backups to those files were also on the same drive just in another folder...
But I've spent yesterday and today getting that back together.
Its not up to the quality I like yet, but I'm ticking the rules I like (just about all of them) and getting it situated.
Got a mech you want to see handle this swarming threat?
If not, I'll roll with a Centurion or maybe a Blackjack.
Maybe an Icarus II with a Patron with an ammo truck for fun.
Its both satisfying and terrifying, to know that pursuit of some crook running across a busy street ends up causing cars to swirve and slam into things, that vehicles are flipping over, that a semi pops three tires and rolls onto its side burrowing through 3 other vehicles before hitting a nearby Starbucks...and nearby pedestrians are fleeing about in terror which further complicates the scene for those chasing the crook whom...don't have the luxury off carelessly adding to the collateral damage.
So, when my hard drive fried I pretty much hung up all my plans in regards to those things...because getting back to that point was going to be a royal pain. The backups to those files were also on the same drive just in another folder...
But I've spent yesterday and today getting that back together.
Its not up to the quality I like yet, but I'm ticking the rules I like (just about all of them) and getting it situated.
Got a mech you want to see handle this swarming threat?
If not, I'll roll with a Centurion or maybe a Blackjack.
Maybe an Icarus II with a Patron with an ammo truck for fun.
#8
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Posted 14 April 2019 - 12:03 PM
A Centurion works, but if you want something more fun then feel free to run wild with it.
#9
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Posted 14 April 2019 - 07:29 PM
My immediate thought is to test against Clan mechs, as Wolcott is where the Savannah Master got a chance to shine. The Gabriel appears to be strictly superior to the SM, unless it's less armored. Pick your poison, my prediction is that on an equal tonnage basis, once you have 10+ of the little buggers, whatever Clan-grade mech they are up against is screwed.
I suggest trialing against:
Dasher
Nova
Dire Wolf
If the Gabriel or SM could be automated (vs. the major personnel losses of keeping them piloted), they would be a massively superior option in favorable terrain versus just about any ground target including Elementals.
I suggest trialing against:
Dasher
Nova
Dire Wolf
If the Gabriel or SM could be automated (vs. the major personnel losses of keeping them piloted), they would be a massively superior option in favorable terrain versus just about any ground target including Elementals.
#10
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Posted 14 April 2019 - 09:01 PM
Welp, despite the things being identical on the surface, I've come to notice a few things. They both only use a single crewman, though Gabriel has a fully automated laser turret, Savannah only has a forward facing laser. Gabriel is (in terms of fluff) faster, a whole 5 hexes faster on paper despite its engine, although it is also fluffed that after a certain point the automatic system in its small size had to be rebuilt as the original facility was bombed, and in so doing they couldn't push as much out of the engine.
The Savannah, however, has a very efficient engine ... and is very, very, very compact in terms of size, roughly a third of the size of the Gabriel at the very most, possibly even a fourth of the size. Its also got more armor, standard armor at that (while the Gabriel's sporting Ferro).
So each apparently has its own advantages and disadvantages.
I'll consider the Clan mechs.
The Savannah, however, has a very efficient engine ... and is very, very, very compact in terms of size, roughly a third of the size of the Gabriel at the very most, possibly even a fourth of the size. Its also got more armor, standard armor at that (while the Gabriel's sporting Ferro).
So each apparently has its own advantages and disadvantages.
I'll consider the Clan mechs.
#11
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Posted 14 April 2019 - 11:51 PM
Swarms of hovercraft? I can't hit them when they move with full speed... so I use the "anti-light" assault tactic. Look for a decent place of cover and let them skid into trees or rocks - because when they don't move at full speed they can be hit.
As such the Gabriel with a turret is clearly the better choice.
As such the Gabriel with a turret is clearly the better choice.
#12
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Posted 15 April 2019 - 03:37 AM
I'm STILL....fighting these *******.. After a few failed attempts, I finally learned how to temporarily replace and reboot a bot player as well as how to help keep the bots from crashing because they kept crashing... But before that I had a few map setups which I thought would be fun but couldn't find again. Couple of hours later, got into the thick of it.
So far, been interesting...
Truly fun was this moment:
For whatever reason...
A Savannah Master tried to ram me...
....and I kicked it.
Yep, it tried to ram me.
I kicked it instead!
O.o;
Sweat!
But so far, a certain story about hovercrafts and a james bond film seem to check out. Unlike in the film, the real hovercraft took forever to make turns so they would stop the filming, reangle the craft, and then film with the new angle and digitally do the turns...as real hovercraft don't handle turns too well.
This is because there's no contact surface friction to use to facilitate high speed turns. As such, they are literally fighting as if they are playing asteroids... They will either zip by across the map in any kind of straight path feasible, U-turn (quite possibly while zipping) and fire.... or they will drive slower, making several small turns... or finally, there's the small zip, followed by a steep singular turn and another small zip. Typically they are going 9 to 11 hexes, with extremes hitting 20 and sometimes as little as four (particularly a pair that keeps circling me and because of the actual turns counting as movement, my ability to hit them is 20% or less.
So far, two of them have destroyed themselves, a few have collided with trees, rocks or other vegetation but it hasn't been enough to do much. I've shot down a few of them, the Centurion's rear laser is coming in handy because they like to zip past and whirl around to blast their laser. If you're familiar with Star Control, I feel like a planet; they're slingshotting around me and spinning with their momentum to shoot at me.
Trouble is they aren't all that effective. I'm one Centurion... sure they are hard to hit, but its just a matter of time.
I can make it in one of three ways. Kill the two commanding units. Make it down south (started in the north). Or eliminate enough of them that they opt for retreating. So far they've managed to stall me as I've found that significantly reducing my speed gives me just enough accuracy to actually land hits. But I'm about ready to make a break for it. Nearby swamp and a river isn't helping matters, but if I linger too much longer I'll be stuck in a hefty storm.
So far, been interesting...
Truly fun was this moment:
For whatever reason...
A Savannah Master tried to ram me...
....and I kicked it.
Quote
Physical attacks for Centurion CN9-A (My Campaign)
Kick (Left leg) at Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #2 (TacticalBot); needs 4, rolls 11 : - Direct Blow - Roll #3217 - range: [1,6], result: 7, rolls: 2, 5, deal #1 of shuffle #19
hits FR
Roll #3228 - range: [1,6], result: 8, rolls: 4, 4, deal #2 of shuffle #19
Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #2 (TacticalBot) takes 12 damage to FR.
Armor destroyed.
SECTION DESTROYED.
*** Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #2 (TacticalBot) DESTROYED by damage! ***
Critical hit on FR. Roll is (8+2) = 10; Commander injured!
Crew stunned for 1 turns.
Physical attacks for Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #2 (TacticalBot)
Charging Centurion CN9-A (My Campaign); needs 5, rolls 4 :
Roll #3278 - range: [1,6], result: 4
intercepted!!
Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #2 (TacticalBot) is displaced into hex 1129.
Kick (Left leg) at Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #2 (TacticalBot); needs 4, rolls 11 : - Direct Blow - Roll #3217 - range: [1,6], result: 7, rolls: 2, 5, deal #1 of shuffle #19
hits FR
Roll #3228 - range: [1,6], result: 8, rolls: 4, 4, deal #2 of shuffle #19
Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #2 (TacticalBot) takes 12 damage to FR.
Armor destroyed.
SECTION DESTROYED.
*** Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #2 (TacticalBot) DESTROYED by damage! ***
Critical hit on FR. Roll is (8+2) = 10; Commander injured!
Crew stunned for 1 turns.
Physical attacks for Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #2 (TacticalBot)
Charging Centurion CN9-A (My Campaign); needs 5, rolls 4 :
Roll #3278 - range: [1,6], result: 4
intercepted!!
Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #2 (TacticalBot) is displaced into hex 1129.
Yep, it tried to ram me.
I kicked it instead!
O.o;
Sweat!
But so far, a certain story about hovercrafts and a james bond film seem to check out. Unlike in the film, the real hovercraft took forever to make turns so they would stop the filming, reangle the craft, and then film with the new angle and digitally do the turns...as real hovercraft don't handle turns too well.
Spoiler
This is because there's no contact surface friction to use to facilitate high speed turns. As such, they are literally fighting as if they are playing asteroids... They will either zip by across the map in any kind of straight path feasible, U-turn (quite possibly while zipping) and fire.... or they will drive slower, making several small turns... or finally, there's the small zip, followed by a steep singular turn and another small zip. Typically they are going 9 to 11 hexes, with extremes hitting 20 and sometimes as little as four (particularly a pair that keeps circling me and because of the actual turns counting as movement, my ability to hit them is 20% or less.
So far, two of them have destroyed themselves, a few have collided with trees, rocks or other vegetation but it hasn't been enough to do much. I've shot down a few of them, the Centurion's rear laser is coming in handy because they like to zip past and whirl around to blast their laser. If you're familiar with Star Control, I feel like a planet; they're slingshotting around me and spinning with their momentum to shoot at me.
Trouble is they aren't all that effective. I'm one Centurion... sure they are hard to hit, but its just a matter of time.
I can make it in one of three ways. Kill the two commanding units. Make it down south (started in the north). Or eliminate enough of them that they opt for retreating. So far they've managed to stall me as I've found that significantly reducing my speed gives me just enough accuracy to actually land hits. But I'm about ready to make a break for it. Nearby swamp and a river isn't helping matters, but if I linger too much longer I'll be stuck in a hefty storm.
#13
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Posted 15 April 2019 - 03:45 AM
Quote
[color="black"]Vehicle Crew Annie Ahmarov[/color] ([color="c06060"]AggressiveBot[/color]) must make a piloting skill check while moving from hex 2626 to hex 2727 (avoid bogging down).
Roll #3208 - range: [1,6], result: 3, rolls: 1, 2, deal #30 of shuffle #19
Needs 4 [4 (entering boggy terrain) + 0 (avoid bogging down)], rolls 3 : fails.
Vehicle Crew Annie Ahmarov (AggressiveBot) gets bogged down.
Roll #3237 - range: [1,6], result: 7, rolls: 6, 1, deal #31 of shuffle #19
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #12[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) must make a piloting skill check while moving in hex 1126 (did not satisfy turn mode).
Roll #3239 - range: [1,6], result: 9, rolls: 6, 3, deal #32 of shuffle #19
Needs 3 [3 (Base piloting skill) - 1 (light vehicle) + 1 (did not satisfy turn mode)], rolls 9 : succeeds.
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #12[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) must make a piloting skill check while moving in hex 1126 (did not satisfy turn mode).
Roll #3212 - range: [1,6], result: 7, rolls: 1, 6, deal #33 of shuffle #19
Needs 3 [3 (Base piloting skill) - 1 (light vehicle) + 1 (did not satisfy turn mode)], rolls 7 : succeeds.
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #9[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) must make a piloting skill check while moving in hex 2119 (did not satisfy turn mode).
Roll #3235 - range: [1,6], result: 10, rolls: 5, 5, deal #34 of shuffle #19
Needs 9 [6 (Base piloting skill) + 1 (fatigue) - 1 (light vehicle) + 3 (did not satisfy turn mode)], rolls 10 : succeeds.
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #9[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) must make a piloting skill check while moving from hex 2127 to hex 2027 (flanking and turning).
Roll #3231 - range: [1,6], result: 6, rolls: 5, 1, deal #35 of shuffle #19
Needs 7 [6 (Base piloting skill) + 1 (fatigue) + 0 (flanking and turning)], rolls 6 : fails.
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #9[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) sideslips 1 hexes
Skids into hex 2128.
Skid ends.
Roll #3208 - range: [1,6], result: 3, rolls: 1, 2, deal #30 of shuffle #19
Needs 4 [4 (entering boggy terrain) + 0 (avoid bogging down)], rolls 3 : fails.
Vehicle Crew Annie Ahmarov (AggressiveBot) gets bogged down.
Roll #3237 - range: [1,6], result: 7, rolls: 6, 1, deal #31 of shuffle #19
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #12[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) must make a piloting skill check while moving in hex 1126 (did not satisfy turn mode).
Roll #3239 - range: [1,6], result: 9, rolls: 6, 3, deal #32 of shuffle #19
Needs 3 [3 (Base piloting skill) - 1 (light vehicle) + 1 (did not satisfy turn mode)], rolls 9 : succeeds.
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #12[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) must make a piloting skill check while moving in hex 1126 (did not satisfy turn mode).
Roll #3212 - range: [1,6], result: 7, rolls: 1, 6, deal #33 of shuffle #19
Needs 3 [3 (Base piloting skill) - 1 (light vehicle) + 1 (did not satisfy turn mode)], rolls 7 : succeeds.
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #9[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) must make a piloting skill check while moving in hex 2119 (did not satisfy turn mode).
Roll #3235 - range: [1,6], result: 10, rolls: 5, 5, deal #34 of shuffle #19
Needs 9 [6 (Base piloting skill) + 1 (fatigue) - 1 (light vehicle) + 3 (did not satisfy turn mode)], rolls 10 : succeeds.
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #9[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) must make a piloting skill check while moving from hex 2127 to hex 2027 (flanking and turning).
Roll #3231 - range: [1,6], result: 6, rolls: 5, 1, deal #35 of shuffle #19
Needs 7 [6 (Base piloting skill) + 1 (fatigue) + 0 (flanking and turning)], rolls 6 : fails.
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #9[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) sideslips 1 hexes
Skids into hex 2128.
Skid ends.
This is happening a lot.
My favorite skid so far is when one skid sideways into a rockface and lost about 5 armor.
Or the one that literally broke its motive system on the first move due to reckless driving.
#14
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Posted 15 April 2019 - 04:01 AM
I should mention, I'm running basically a plethora of compatible rules... with a fully generated crew of enemies of different skill levels including two elites (which I've given the Commander role to; if the aces go down then the fight is done). Some have unique abilities, for example one of them can and has been driving "sideways" (not entirely sure how but we're not gonna get into the physics of that), another appears to be able to use a medium laser at 500+ meters and still hit... there's also two different personalities (I originally tried to go with more but as I said the AIs kept crashing...something about hovercraft, so I've stuck with two and occasionally I have to reset the AIs).
Each has a face, a name, his or her own traits, and originally each had its own personality but I had to scrub that due to the hassle.
Technically, the second "elite" is Kyung, as Kyung has a rediculous amount of luck going in her favor. In addition to being able to drive sideways (something none of the others can do), it seems that despite her stats, somehow she got bonuses added in after the roll that allow her still make it. There's also an edge on something which'll get a reroll on a bad outcome to change it....because luck. So far each attempt to hit her has missed even with a greater than 90% chance.
Speaking of luck, someone managed to survive a hit with AC/10 fire...on foot...
On.....foot...
With no armor...
Sure, it was a glancing blow... but it was a hit.
Technically it hit a woman.
Also not sure why the damage is reducing toward infantry, usually its times 10 and divided among the people in a platoon.
Now, of course, once I pull through...I gotta see how bad the damage is for my Centurion and how much trouble this inconvenience has caused me.
Edit:
Forgot to mention, everyone can move at the same time due to simultaneous turns. So things keep...not working out because you anticipate one thing and something else happens or you try to move to face somebody and they've whipped around behind or beside you.
Each has a face, a name, his or her own traits, and originally each had its own personality but I had to scrub that due to the hassle.
Technically, the second "elite" is Kyung, as Kyung has a rediculous amount of luck going in her favor. In addition to being able to drive sideways (something none of the others can do), it seems that despite her stats, somehow she got bonuses added in after the roll that allow her still make it. There's also an edge on something which'll get a reroll on a bad outcome to change it....because luck. So far each attempt to hit her has missed even with a greater than 90% chance.
Speaking of luck, someone managed to survive a hit with AC/10 fire...on foot...
On.....foot...
With no armor...
Sure, it was a glancing blow... but it was a hit.
Quote
AC/10 at Vehicle Crew Annie Ahmarov (AggressiveBot); needs 10, rolls 10 : - Glancing Blow - hits MEN
Direct fire weapon against infantry, damage changed from 10 to 1
Vehicle Crew Annie Ahmarov (AggressiveBot) suffers no damage.
Direct fire weapon against infantry, damage changed from 10 to 1
Vehicle Crew Annie Ahmarov (AggressiveBot) suffers no damage.
Technically it hit a woman.
Also not sure why the damage is reducing toward infantry, usually its times 10 and divided among the people in a platoon.
Now, of course, once I pull through...I gotta see how bad the damage is for my Centurion and how much trouble this inconvenience has caused me.
Edit:
Forgot to mention, everyone can move at the same time due to simultaneous turns. So things keep...not working out because you anticipate one thing and something else happens or you try to move to face somebody and they've whipped around behind or beside you.
Edited by Koniving, 15 April 2019 - 04:11 AM.
#15
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Posted 15 April 2019 - 04:07 AM
Ooo--progress!
Sweet! More progress!
Quote
Weapons fire for [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
AC/10 at [color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #5[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]); needs 5, rolls 8 : - Direct Blow - hits FR
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #5[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) takes 11 damage to FR.
Armor destroyed.
SECTION DESTROYED.
*** [color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #5[/color] (TacticalBot) DESTROYED by damage! ***
Critical hit on FR. Roll is (6+1) = 7; Medium Laser malfunctions.
Medium Laser at [color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #5[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]); needs 5, rolls 10 : - Direct Blow - hits LS
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #5[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) takes 6 damage to LS.
Armor destroyed.
SECTION DESTROYED.
Critical hit on LS. Roll is (8+1) = 9; Engine destroyed. Immobile.
Medium Laser at [color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #3[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]); needs 10, rolls 10 : - Glancing Blow - hits FR
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #3[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) takes 2 damage to FR.
2 Armor remaining.
AC/10 at [color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #5[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]); needs 5, rolls 8 : - Direct Blow - hits FR
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #5[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) takes 11 damage to FR.
Armor destroyed.
SECTION DESTROYED.
*** [color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #5[/color] (TacticalBot) DESTROYED by damage! ***
Critical hit on FR. Roll is (6+1) = 7; Medium Laser malfunctions.
Medium Laser at [color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #5[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]); needs 5, rolls 10 : - Direct Blow - hits LS
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #5[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) takes 6 damage to LS.
Armor destroyed.
SECTION DESTROYED.
Critical hit on LS. Roll is (8+1) = 9; Engine destroyed. Immobile.
Medium Laser at [color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #3[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]); needs 10, rolls 10 : - Glancing Blow - hits FR
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #3[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) takes 2 damage to FR.
2 Armor remaining.
Sweet! More progress!
Quote
Physical attacks for [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
Kick (Left leg) at Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #7 (TacticalBot); needs 4, rolls 8 : - Direct Blow - Roll #3217 - range: [1,6], result: 7, rolls: 2, 5, deal #21 of shuffle #20
hits (using Left Side table) LS
Roll #3207 - range: [1,6], result: 2, rolls: 1, 1, deal #22 of shuffle #20
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #7[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) takes 11 damage to LS.
Armor destroyed.
SECTION DESTROYED.
*** [color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #7[/color] (TacticalBot) DESTROYED by damage! ***
Critical hit on LS. Roll is (2+1) = 3; no effect.
Kick (Left leg) at Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #7 (TacticalBot); needs 4, rolls 8 : - Direct Blow - Roll #3217 - range: [1,6], result: 7, rolls: 2, 5, deal #21 of shuffle #20
hits (using Left Side table) LS
Roll #3207 - range: [1,6], result: 2, rolls: 1, 1, deal #22 of shuffle #20
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #7[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) takes 11 damage to LS.
Armor destroyed.
SECTION DESTROYED.
*** [color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #7[/color] (TacticalBot) DESTROYED by damage! ***
Critical hit on LS. Roll is (2+1) = 3; no effect.
#16
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Posted 15 April 2019 - 04:42 AM
Welp, looks like making it to the south might be out.
My hip's been thrown out.
But...
Oh!
Number 12; the other commander. Guess I got 'em both now.
Both commanders and over 80% of the enemy BV destroyed (which is supposed to make them retreat in either case).
Time for me to get some sleep, tomorrow or sometime during today, I will go through the value of what was left and my repairs... and tomorrow I'll share the highlights not already shared along with screenshots.
Here was the map I fought them on; this minimap shows the first sensor encounter.
I started north, tactical started south, and aggressive started "edge" so they could appear anywhere from any direction on the edge of the map.
They were permitted to appear in uneven waves, as such they trickled in at different times at the AI's discretion so long as they appeared before X turn, which different limits were set on different units.
Only one or two actually died before the entire swarm came in.
Definitely fun... but that took me hours.
Quote
Weapons fire for [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
AC/10 at [color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #12[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]); needs 5, rolls 6 : 2 shot(s) hit (using Right Side table).
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #12[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) takes 10 damage to RS.
Armor destroyed.
SECTION DESTROYED.
*** [color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #12[/color] (TacticalBot) DESTROYED by damage! ***
Chance for motive system damage. Roll is 9; (w/ +2 bonus)
Moderate damage, +2 to driving skill rolls, -1 MP.
Critical hit on RS. Roll is 7; Crew stunned for 1 turns.
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #12[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) takes 10 damage to RS.
Weapons fire for [color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #3[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Medium Laser at [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color]); needs 7, rolls 7 : - Glancing Blow - hits LL
[color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color]) takes 2 damage to LL.
7 Armor remaining.
Weapons fire for [color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #9[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Medium Laser at [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color]); needs 7, rolls 12 : - Direct Blow - hits (using Rear table) RL
[color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color]) takes 6 damage to RL.
Armor destroyed.
10 Internal Structure remaining.
Critical hit on RL. Roll is (8+2) = 10; 1 location.
CRITICAL HIT on Hip.
Roll #3224 - range: [1,6], result: 9, rolls: 3, 6, deal #22 of shuffle #22
[color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color]) must make 1 piloting skill roll(s) (hip actuator hit).
The base target is 4 [4 (Base piloting skill)].
Roll #1, (4 (Base piloting skill) + 2 (hip actuator hit)); needs 6, rolls 9 : succeeds.
AC/10 at [color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #12[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]); needs 5, rolls 6 : 2 shot(s) hit (using Right Side table).
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #12[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) takes 10 damage to RS.
Armor destroyed.
SECTION DESTROYED.
*** [color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #12[/color] (TacticalBot) DESTROYED by damage! ***
Chance for motive system damage. Roll is 9; (w/ +2 bonus)
Moderate damage, +2 to driving skill rolls, -1 MP.
Critical hit on RS. Roll is 7; Crew stunned for 1 turns.
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #12[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]) takes 10 damage to RS.
Weapons fire for [color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #3[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Medium Laser at [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color]); needs 7, rolls 7 : - Glancing Blow - hits LL
[color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color]) takes 2 damage to LL.
7 Armor remaining.
Weapons fire for [color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #9[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Medium Laser at [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color]); needs 7, rolls 12 : - Direct Blow - hits (using Rear table) RL
[color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color]) takes 6 damage to RL.
Armor destroyed.
10 Internal Structure remaining.
Critical hit on RL. Roll is (8+2) = 10; 1 location.
CRITICAL HIT on Hip.
Roll #3224 - range: [1,6], result: 9, rolls: 3, 6, deal #22 of shuffle #22
[color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color]) must make 1 piloting skill roll(s) (hip actuator hit).
The base target is 4 [4 (Base piloting skill)].
Roll #1, (4 (Base piloting skill) + 2 (hip actuator hit)); needs 6, rolls 9 : succeeds.
My hip's been thrown out.
But...
Quote
Heat Phase
-------------------
[color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color]) gains 7 heat, sinks 10 heat and is now at 2 heat.
Control Rolls
-------------------
End Phase
-------------------
Roll #3291 - range: [1,6], result: 5
Roll #3292 - range: [1,6], result: 3
Roll #3293 - range: [1,6], result: 4
Team 1 achieved the BV destroyed victory condition with 89%.
Team 1 achieved the Enemy commander destroyed victory condition with.
Team 1 has achieved all required victory conditions!
-------------------
[color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color]) gains 7 heat, sinks 10 heat and is now at 2 heat.
Control Rolls
-------------------
End Phase
-------------------
Roll #3291 - range: [1,6], result: 5
Roll #3292 - range: [1,6], result: 3
Roll #3293 - range: [1,6], result: 4
Team 1 achieved the BV destroyed victory condition with 89%.
Team 1 achieved the Enemy commander destroyed victory condition with.
Team 1 has achieved all required victory conditions!
Oh!
Number 12; the other commander. Guess I got 'em both now.
Both commanders and over 80% of the enemy BV destroyed (which is supposed to make them retreat in either case).
Quote
Victory!
-------------------
Winner is: TEAM #1
[color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color]: 638 BV remaining (58.0% of 1087 initially) 0 BV fled
[color="c06060"]AggressiveBot[/color]: 4 BV remaining (0.0% of 940 initially) 0 BV fled
[color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]: 317 BV remaining (17.0% of 1839 initially) 0 BV fled
Survivors are:
[color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
Pilot : Magnus Breu [4/4]
Kills : 9
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #3[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Driver : Wicus Shilmani [4/4]
Kills : 0
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #9[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Driver : Hudhayfah bin Khalid [5/6]
Kills : 0
[color="black"]Vehicle Crew Annie Ahmarov[/color] ([color="c06060"]AggressiveBot[/color])
Gunnery Skill : 3Kills : 0
Graveyard contains:
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #11[/color] ([color="c06060"]AggressiveBot[/color])
Driver : Camille Dalope [5/3]
Kills : 0
Abandoned by crew.
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #6[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Driver : Laksari Karsumaatmaja [5/6]
Kills : 0
Destroyed by [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #4[/color] ([color="c06060"]AggressiveBot[/color])
Driver : Annie Ahmarov [3/5]
Kills : 0
Abandoned by crew.
[color="black"]Vehicle Crew Camille Dalope[/color] ([color="c06060"]AggressiveBot[/color])
Gunnery Skill : 5Kills : 0
Destroyed by [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #10[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Driver : Ben Elkins [4/5]
Kills : 0
Destroyed by [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #8[/color] ([color="c06060"]AggressiveBot[/color])
Driver : Kassidy Coote [4/5]
Kills : 0
Destroyed by [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard)[/color] ([color="c06060"]AggressiveBot[/color])
Driver : Kyung-Wook Im [4/5]
Kills : 0
Destroyed by [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #2[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Driver : Hedvika Burshek [4/5]
Kills : 0
Destroyed by [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #5[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Driver : Aletia Hubert [3/4]
Kills : 0
Destroyed by [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #7[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Driver : Nessa Rodriguez [4/5]
Kills : 0
Destroyed by [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #12[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Driver : Jeff Kadee [4/3]
Kills : 0
Destroyed by [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
-------------------
Winner is: TEAM #1
[color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color]: 638 BV remaining (58.0% of 1087 initially) 0 BV fled
[color="c06060"]AggressiveBot[/color]: 4 BV remaining (0.0% of 940 initially) 0 BV fled
[color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color]: 317 BV remaining (17.0% of 1839 initially) 0 BV fled
Survivors are:
[color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
Pilot : Magnus Breu [4/4]
Kills : 9
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #3[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Driver : Wicus Shilmani [4/4]
Kills : 0
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #9[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Driver : Hudhayfah bin Khalid [5/6]
Kills : 0
[color="black"]Vehicle Crew Annie Ahmarov[/color] ([color="c06060"]AggressiveBot[/color])
Gunnery Skill : 3Kills : 0
Graveyard contains:
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #11[/color] ([color="c06060"]AggressiveBot[/color])
Driver : Camille Dalope [5/3]
Kills : 0
Abandoned by crew.
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #6[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Driver : Laksari Karsumaatmaja [5/6]
Kills : 0
Destroyed by [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #4[/color] ([color="c06060"]AggressiveBot[/color])
Driver : Annie Ahmarov [3/5]
Kills : 0
Abandoned by crew.
[color="black"]Vehicle Crew Camille Dalope[/color] ([color="c06060"]AggressiveBot[/color])
Gunnery Skill : 5Kills : 0
Destroyed by [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #10[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Driver : Ben Elkins [4/5]
Kills : 0
Destroyed by [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #8[/color] ([color="c06060"]AggressiveBot[/color])
Driver : Kassidy Coote [4/5]
Kills : 0
Destroyed by [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard)[/color] ([color="c06060"]AggressiveBot[/color])
Driver : Kyung-Wook Im [4/5]
Kills : 0
Destroyed by [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #2[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Driver : Hedvika Burshek [4/5]
Kills : 0
Destroyed by [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #5[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Driver : Aletia Hubert [3/4]
Kills : 0
Destroyed by [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #7[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Driver : Nessa Rodriguez [4/5]
Kills : 0
Destroyed by [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
[color="black"]Savannah Master Hovercraft (Standard) #12[/color] ([color="908060"]TacticalBot[/color])
Driver : Jeff Kadee [4/3]
Kills : 0
Destroyed by [color="black"]Centurion CN9-A[/color] ([color="8080b0"]My Campaign[/color])
Time for me to get some sleep, tomorrow or sometime during today, I will go through the value of what was left and my repairs... and tomorrow I'll share the highlights not already shared along with screenshots.
Here was the map I fought them on; this minimap shows the first sensor encounter.
I started north, tactical started south, and aggressive started "edge" so they could appear anywhere from any direction on the edge of the map.
They were permitted to appear in uneven waves, as such they trickled in at different times at the AI's discretion so long as they appeared before X turn, which different limits were set on different units.
Only one or two actually died before the entire swarm came in.
Definitely fun... but that took me hours.
Edited by Koniving, 15 April 2019 - 04:52 AM.
#17
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- The Guide
- 23,384 posts
Welcoming Committee
Posted 15 April 2019 - 12:00 PM
Of the nine Savannah Masters I destroyed, I was able to acquire 8 as salvage because of ******** (there was no contract or anything, no restrictions on how much I was allowed, and supposedly I collected it all).
One was completely obliterated.
And since in order to create them, they all came out of my unit to attack me, I rejected the ones that escaped because bad guys wouldn't escape just to return to my garage and tell me what a bad day they had for ******* with me.
Values:
25,625
23,750
90,375
59,600
55,350
65,225
87,500
83,250
In total:
490,675 made selling them.
Buying 8 would cost me (in the current time and current year)
733,336
And if 'bought', they wouldn't be in perfect condition, which brings up something else. Each of these Savannah Masters were in perfect condition (as was the Centurion)...which never happens in Battletech fluff.
The Savannah Masters were made even harder to hit than the average 5 ton hovercraft by the fact that they were given the narrow/low profile quirk to reflect how they are much smaller than a normal 5 ton hovercraft such as the Gabriel. These things appear to be about the size of Volkswagon Beatles (Savannah Master)...compared to a limousine (Gabriel).
That's a head with a helmet inside the cockpit. This thing is tiny. And again its got 50% more armor than the Gabriel, in the form of standard armor. Standard armor isn't as bulky as Ferro, which possibly could be adding to the Gabriel's size. Truth be told, the Savannah should possibly have an inaccurate weapon, as not only does it not have a turret and a forward mounted laser, its low-slung and worse it doesn't appear to have a method of changing its angle such as a ball mount.
The Omni-25, though considered one of the most efficient and compact fusion engines ever created...apparently had two caveats.
One, that efficiency is "fuel efficiency". In a Fusion engine where typically you have a month or two of routine daily activity so long as you stay out of combat... so if this translates to 3 or 4 months of daily routine activity without combat... it really doesn't mean much if you consider that one: these are sold primarily to the Steiners and some periphery nations (okay it might matter to those)...and two... these would go back home to refit and repair in normal combat/scouting... there's..no precedent or need for such efficiency. I thought it might translate into superior acceleration or something, but it doesn't.
And two, and I did nothing to reflect this in the fight, the Omni-25 engine is NOT considered up to par for military use..because despite its efficiency, it has poor acceleration. So ultimately they would have died a bit easier when we boil it down.
Its a good thing that only 2,000 were made for about 25 years...which also tells us you'd never see a swarm like this of just Hovercraft.
-----
Here is the status of my Centurion after combat.
Component
Internal
Armor (X means breached)
Crit
Head
3
9
Center Torso
16
7
Center Torso (rear)
2
Right Torso
12
0
Right Torso (rear)
6
Left Torso
12
13
Left Torso (rear)
6
Right Arm
8
3
Left Arm
8
8
Right Leg
10
X
Hip damaged.
Left Leg
12
7
If I had the supplies I could probably fix this up in about 6 to 8 hours... except for the hip, I'd be stuck with that for the rest of the mission. I wouldn't realistically be carrying a spare hip actuator specifically for one mech, even if I only had one mech to field. No one expects to throw their hip out when they do. It could possibly be repaired in the field, but I actually don't have any equipment to do the repairs in the field. No kits whatsoever. So I'll have to conduct repairs, bring it to full perfect condition via cheating after, and have a run against the Gabriels.
I suspect they will simultaneously do even more damage...but be much easier to kill regardless of higher top speed.
Note: Omni-25 is the Savannah Master's engine.
One was completely obliterated.
And since in order to create them, they all came out of my unit to attack me, I rejected the ones that escaped because bad guys wouldn't escape just to return to my garage and tell me what a bad day they had for ******* with me.
Values:
25,625
23,750
90,375
59,600
55,350
65,225
87,500
83,250
In total:
490,675 made selling them.Buying 8 would cost me (in the current time and current year)
733,336And if 'bought', they wouldn't be in perfect condition, which brings up something else. Each of these Savannah Masters were in perfect condition (as was the Centurion)...which never happens in Battletech fluff.
The Savannah Masters were made even harder to hit than the average 5 ton hovercraft by the fact that they were given the narrow/low profile quirk to reflect how they are much smaller than a normal 5 ton hovercraft such as the Gabriel. These things appear to be about the size of Volkswagon Beatles (Savannah Master)...compared to a limousine (Gabriel).
That's a head with a helmet inside the cockpit. This thing is tiny. And again its got 50% more armor than the Gabriel, in the form of standard armor. Standard armor isn't as bulky as Ferro, which possibly could be adding to the Gabriel's size. Truth be told, the Savannah should possibly have an inaccurate weapon, as not only does it not have a turret and a forward mounted laser, its low-slung and worse it doesn't appear to have a method of changing its angle such as a ball mount.
The Omni-25, though considered one of the most efficient and compact fusion engines ever created...apparently had two caveats.
One, that efficiency is "fuel efficiency". In a Fusion engine where typically you have a month or two of routine daily activity so long as you stay out of combat... so if this translates to 3 or 4 months of daily routine activity without combat... it really doesn't mean much if you consider that one: these are sold primarily to the Steiners and some periphery nations (okay it might matter to those)...and two... these would go back home to refit and repair in normal combat/scouting... there's..no precedent or need for such efficiency. I thought it might translate into superior acceleration or something, but it doesn't.
And two, and I did nothing to reflect this in the fight, the Omni-25 engine is NOT considered up to par for military use..because despite its efficiency, it has poor acceleration. So ultimately they would have died a bit easier when we boil it down.
Its a good thing that only 2,000 were made for about 25 years...which also tells us you'd never see a swarm like this of just Hovercraft.
-----
Here is the status of my Centurion after combat.
Component
Internal
Armor (X means breached)
Crit
Head
3
9
Center Torso
16
7
Center Torso (rear)
2
Right Torso
12
0
Right Torso (rear)
6
Left Torso
12
13
Left Torso (rear)
6
Right Arm
8
3
Left Arm
8
8
Right Leg
10
X
Hip damaged.
Left Leg
12
7
If I had the supplies I could probably fix this up in about 6 to 8 hours... except for the hip, I'd be stuck with that for the rest of the mission. I wouldn't realistically be carrying a spare hip actuator specifically for one mech, even if I only had one mech to field. No one expects to throw their hip out when they do. It could possibly be repaired in the field, but I actually don't have any equipment to do the repairs in the field. No kits whatsoever. So I'll have to conduct repairs, bring it to full perfect condition via cheating after, and have a run against the Gabriels.
I suspect they will simultaneously do even more damage...but be much easier to kill regardless of higher top speed.
Note: Omni-25 is the Savannah Master's engine.
#18
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- The 1 Percent
- 519 posts
Member
Posted 15 April 2019 - 08:44 PM
As I understand it, the reason Savannah Masters were so feared was the way Battletech balanced matches.
Originally, balance was done via tonnage. A Savannah Master is 5 tons. So the lightest mechs (20 tons) would be facing off four of these buggers. An assault mech? Twenty. Each Savannah Master is fast enough to be difficult to hit, and each one is armed with a Medium Laser. You want to bet how long an Atlas - or hell, a Dire Wolf! - would last against 20 high speed, difficult to hit Medium Laser platforms?
Later on, Battletech started using Battle Value because new tech meant that tonnage was no longer an accurate barometer of combat effectiveness (if it ever had been). The Savannah Master currently has a Battle Value of 215. The Locust has a BV of 432, so it would be facing 2 Savannah Masters in an equal match. At Atlas at 1897 BV would be facing 4 or 5. A Dire Wolf Prime at 2712 BV would be facing at least 12.
Doesn't sound so bad? Then consider that Battletech matches usually pits units of 4 mechs or more against each other. Or rather, 4 mechs and/or equivalent amount of vehicles based on tonnage/BV, So take all those numbers above, and multiply them by the number of mechs on the field. A star of Dire Wolves even under the lastest BV system can wind up facing upwards of sixty Savannah Masters, and concentrating on single targets is a known tactic, so how long do you think five Dire Wolves will last when they have sixty Medium Lasers focusing them down one at a time?
And even the best Mechwarriors can only split their fire so many times, so those Savannah Masters will likely be killing the mechs off faster than the mechs can kill them off, even if individual SMs are getting one shot every turn. And most Tournaments AREN'T played with the best Mechwarriors, but with "average" ones running the mechs.
And that's why the Savannah Master Swarm is so feared.
Originally, balance was done via tonnage. A Savannah Master is 5 tons. So the lightest mechs (20 tons) would be facing off four of these buggers. An assault mech? Twenty. Each Savannah Master is fast enough to be difficult to hit, and each one is armed with a Medium Laser. You want to bet how long an Atlas - or hell, a Dire Wolf! - would last against 20 high speed, difficult to hit Medium Laser platforms?
Later on, Battletech started using Battle Value because new tech meant that tonnage was no longer an accurate barometer of combat effectiveness (if it ever had been). The Savannah Master currently has a Battle Value of 215. The Locust has a BV of 432, so it would be facing 2 Savannah Masters in an equal match. At Atlas at 1897 BV would be facing 4 or 5. A Dire Wolf Prime at 2712 BV would be facing at least 12.
Doesn't sound so bad? Then consider that Battletech matches usually pits units of 4 mechs or more against each other. Or rather, 4 mechs and/or equivalent amount of vehicles based on tonnage/BV, So take all those numbers above, and multiply them by the number of mechs on the field. A star of Dire Wolves even under the lastest BV system can wind up facing upwards of sixty Savannah Masters, and concentrating on single targets is a known tactic, so how long do you think five Dire Wolves will last when they have sixty Medium Lasers focusing them down one at a time?
And even the best Mechwarriors can only split their fire so many times, so those Savannah Masters will likely be killing the mechs off faster than the mechs can kill them off, even if individual SMs are getting one shot every turn. And most Tournaments AREN'T played with the best Mechwarriors, but with "average" ones running the mechs.
And that's why the Savannah Master Swarm is so feared.
#19
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- The Guide
- 23,384 posts
Welcoming Committee
Posted 15 April 2019 - 09:27 PM
Also depends on the rules. Without the tacops turn the Savs would be a lot more threatening. Course they would be easier to hit at the same speeds without tacops design quirks....etc.
But the 12 of them basically doubled my BV for my centurion. They weren't much challenge just really annoying. Remember that with simultaneous turns my plan against them just wasn't working because they would move as I did.
Think it's the time sink for the most part....each vehicle, with rolls, etc.... That adds up.
But fluff wise there's 2000 of them, period. Unless messing with Steiner in a specific area you should never encounter them in bulk.
A Gabriel.... Has a similar attrition issue. Unless you mess with comstar/Blake it would be rare to see them in bulk.
And messing with comstar... You got a lot more to worry about.
But the 12 of them basically doubled my BV for my centurion. They weren't much challenge just really annoying. Remember that with simultaneous turns my plan against them just wasn't working because they would move as I did.
Think it's the time sink for the most part....each vehicle, with rolls, etc.... That adds up.
But fluff wise there's 2000 of them, period. Unless messing with Steiner in a specific area you should never encounter them in bulk.
A Gabriel.... Has a similar attrition issue. Unless you mess with comstar/Blake it would be rare to see them in bulk.
And messing with comstar... You got a lot more to worry about.
#20
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- The 1 Percent
- 519 posts
Member
Posted 15 April 2019 - 10:02 PM
Koniving, on 15 April 2019 - 09:27 PM, said:
But fluff wise there's 2000 of them, period. Unless messing with Steiner in a specific area you should never encounter them in bulk.
I think one of the later TRs mentioned that the Savannah Master was put being produced again once the Inner Sphere relearned how to make fusion engines. But they're still not being made in the kind of numbers necessary to swarm an enemy, nor were they ever intended to do that.
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