322 replies to this topic

[P10k56]

Assaults are more like line holding mechs then line breachers.
Just solid line of fire where lighter mechs could fall back when in trouble.
But quick play is all about getting as fast as possible to position leaving slow assaults behind.

How many times I saw my team decimated even when we have upper hand at first
and to achieve victory it only takes to wait for slower assaults to join.
It is sad to see assaults to be first to get killed or last to remain.

[Sjorpha]

Khobai, on 14 April 2019 - 11:11 PM, said:

48KPH is too slow for just about every gamemode too

Evidently false, some of the absolute best performing assaults in the game, Annihilators and Sleipnir, have their best metabuilds moving at 45-50kph and these mechs are absolute beasts in quickplay.

Quote

the problem is all the fast heavies. PGI needed to slow heavy mechs down and they never did it. heavies should not be going nearly as fast as mediums with 30% better firepower and armor.often get left behind.

If you look at the average speeds of the top 5 builds in each weight class according to Grimmechs, you get the following:
Lights: 130kph
Mediums: 96kph (includes two 75kph Vapor eagles that are unusually slow for mediums)
Heavies: 79kph (includes a 97kph Linebacker that pushes the average up a bit, it's 75 without it which is a more realistic average)
Assaults: 56kph

These numbers are without speed tweak, which is typically used on all the lights and would be used on 2 of those mediums, so the real in game speeds would be significantly more for the lights and a little more for the mediums.

As you can see the speed progression between the weight classes is actually fairly smooth and even though the metagame favors slow glass cannon mediums and fast clan laservomit heavies, the best mediums still move about 20kph faster on average.

So you're just wrong. Even though very slow and very fast mechs exist in each weight class, heavies are significantly slower than mediums and the metagame doesn't favor speed as much as you think it does.

Also if you dig into the specific examples the claims of 30% more firepower along with medium mech speed is false as well. The slow mediums in this example even have a little more firepower than the fast heavies, you can go slow with a lot of guns or fast with fewer guns and there is no magical free lunch deal at any tonnage.

Also most of those speeds, especially on the heavies actually, are just the stock speed from Battletech lore, nothing you could really put on PGI even if your claim was true, which it isn't.

Edited by Sjorpha, 15 April 2019 - 01:55 AM.

[Feral Clown]

GuardDogg, on 14 April 2019 - 02:18 PM, said:

Well, if I could upload images. It would prove lights can do better numbers than the other class. Even out do assault mechs. I even have one image of a light getting 5 kills, and damage of 800, and assault damage 152, 1 kill, 4 assists. And a Piranha doing damage of 613, 2 kills, 9 assists. So, you do not see the problem that lights (pros) are tougher than Assaults (even the pros).

Um, you think a couple images would prove lights have an overall higher output than assaults? Your measure of performance is also suspect.

[PhoenixFire55]

@OP ... Good joke thread. 8/10, will read again.

P.S. I mean ... We are talking with a guy who "saw a Raven with 5xPPCs".

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 15 April 2019 - 03:30 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Prototelis, on 14 April 2019 - 10:45 PM, said:

This is ********.

What are your mouse settings like?

Rubber ball is soft and slightly dirty on one side.

[Weeny Machine]

GuardDogg, on 14 April 2019 - 01:50 PM, said:

The one reason, I made this post, is because I was in a match, and one guy starting to get mad at Assault pilots for being to slow. Been hearing a lot of this lately. When the team out ran the assaults to center, and then getting mad. Did win the round, but made my final straw to make notice. Then Assault pilots get blamed for everything. "The assaults were in the back, and not in the front line." l did pilot a medium, and light for the past week, and escorted, protected assault mechs. Because I know the feeling of being left behind. And wow, did get wonders, good results for doing so. But if you out run assaults, and then start blaming. Well...wonder why.

Yeah, and I saw a PIR eat an Atlas alive while farting Heavy Gauss projectiles which destroyed an Annihilator leaving him as a ruined brown smelling mass on the ground.

Seriously, though, I am so fed-up how heavy and assault players claim how great light mechs are when it is the weakest class around (it is of course even better when it comes from people who have an average match score of 164 in a light mech) and they mostly play the heavy or assault classes.

And of course, a light is more survivable... against opponents who 1.) have no clue to aim for the legs 2.) have a hard time to hit a barn door - and thanks to the great tier system there are quite a number of those in T1. I am not a great shot at all but even I can reliably hit legs of lights

Relishcakes, on 14 April 2019 - 11:14 AM, said:

Go play any light, and tell me again that assaults have less armor than lights.

Look up his stats in lights

Edited by Bush Hopper, 15 April 2019 - 05:11 AM.

[GuardDogg]

Bush Hopper, on 15 April 2019 - 05:07 AM, said:

Yeah, and I saw a PIR eat an Atlas alive while farting Heavy Gauss projectiles which destroyed an Annihilator leaving him as a ruined brown smelling mass on the ground.

Seriously, though, I am so fed-up how heavy and assault players claim how great light mechs are when it is the weakest class around (it is of course even better when it comes from people who have an average match score of 164 in a light mech) and they mostly play the heavy or assault classes.

And of course, a light is more survivable... against opponents who 1.) have no clue to aim for the legs 2.) have a hard time to hit a barn door - and thanks to the great tier system there are quite a number of those in T1. I am not a great shot at all but even I can reliably hit legs of lights



Look up his stats in lights

Trolling post.

PhoenixFire55, on 15 April 2019 - 03:18 AM, said:

@OP ... Good joke thread. 8/10, will read again.

P.S. I mean ... We are talking with a guy who "saw a Raven with 5xPPCs".

Another troll post.

[Darian DelFord]

While I will go as far as saying that some assaults are in a great place and some need help. This can be said for all chassis weight classes though.

Bad assaults (those that do need help) are still far more survivable than any light mech. IT takes one well placed alpha to disable a light. It takes 10+ to take out an assault IF they have no idea how to play an assault.

All mechs need to have a hard look at them, and the damn Resizing needs to be UN-DONE. That destroyed many many mechs. Even worse than the Engine De-Sync

[Weeny Machine]

GuardDogg, on 15 April 2019 - 05:22 AM, said:

Trolling post.



Another troll post.

Why? Because what you say is so wrong it hurts and sound like faery tales?

Here a simple fact: in a pvp environment the majority of people gravitate to what is easiest to use and effective (read: powerful). Now, explain me, why are mostly 1-2 lights per team while it is quite common to see 5-6 assaults?

Edited by Bush Hopper, 15 April 2019 - 05:52 AM.

[GuardDogg]

Bush Hopper, on 15 April 2019 - 05:45 AM, said:

Why? Because what you say is so wrong it hurts?

Here a simple fact: in a pvp environment the majority of people gravitate to what is easiest to use and effective (read: powerful). Now, explain me, why are mostly 1-2 lights per team while it is quite common to see 5-6 assaults?

Not irrelevant to the problem of main post. Your post was out to humiliate. Not out to fix a problem: for example: Hey go look at his stats. You are a joke. You are the problem. You this, that. Really? Going there? Is it really that bad to post a problem to make things better here? Try not flame the problem. Be human.

Listen. It is those who tell Assault pilots to be at a location at the same time as other pilots. It is impossible. K..got it?

Note: MWO is flawed. Lights are invincible, Assaults are vulnerable. It is the way MWO is.

Edited by GuardDogg, 15 April 2019 - 05:58 AM.

[Prototelis]

Bro. If you're truly piloting a 38kph assault you lost in the mechlab. No amount of advice is going to make that a good build.

Listen to what people are telling you, 65% of the people playing the game score better than you. Thats an undisputed fact. You are doing something really really wrong and no amount of game balancing is going to change that. No amount of hyperbole is going to impress people who play this game.

You aren't going to get any better or have an easier time until you acknowledge you are the problem and work from there.

Edited by Prototelis, 15 April 2019 - 06:03 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

GuardDogg, on 15 April 2019 - 05:22 AM, said:

Trolling post.

Another troll post.

This entire thread is troll thread. In any case let us know how that 5ERPPC Raven is working out for ya.

[Darian DelFord]

GuardDogg, on 15 April 2019 - 05:57 AM, said:

Listen. It is those who tell Assault pilots to be at a location at the same time as other pilots. It is impossible. K..got it?

So you mean like I tried to tell this assault where to go??

[Wil McCullough]

Prototelis, on 15 April 2019 - 06:02 AM, said:

Bro. If you're truly piloting a 38kph assault you lost in the mechlab. No amount of advice is going to make that a good build.

Listen to what people are telling you, 65% of the people playing the game score better than you. Thats an undisputed fact. You are doing something really really wrong and no amount of game balancing is going to change that. No amount of hyperbole is going to impress people who play this game.

You aren't going to get any better or have an easier time until you acknowledge you are the problem and work from there.

To compare, stock urbie goes at 32. With speed tweak, that means it's an even race between it and this guy's robot.

The stock urbie is a joke and pgi had to give it a non-existant engine to get it to.go at that speed.

No stock assault goes at 38 kph iirc. Which means the guy took out the stock engine and put in something even smaller. My brain can't.compute what he uses all the spare tonnage for. There's assaults that can run quad gauss and still go at respectable speed. That's like... as heavy a payload as it gets. I really don't know what guarddogg is stuffing into his mech. I'm not sure i want to know. Maylbe multiple tcom7s?

Edit: just remembered stock anni goes at 32. My bad.

Edited by Wil McCullough, 15 April 2019 - 06:24 AM.

[Prototelis]

The only thing I can think of is an LB60 ANH with dual 20s, dual 10s.

[Curccu]

GuardDogg, on 15 April 2019 - 05:57 AM, said:

Note: MWO is flawed. Lights are invincible, Assaults are vulnerable. It is the way MWO is.

And you just proved Bush Hopper to be right.

[GuardDogg]

Darian DelFord, on 15 April 2019 - 06:16 AM, said:

So you mean like I tried to tell this assault where to go??

That is a great example of a bad Assault pilot. But I can see a problem in that. Since he was left behind, he decided to help a light. But the light pilot was able to protect him anyways. Myself as an assault. I would have left the light to do his job, and continue on to team. Awesome video of a bad assault pilot. I would be upset as well to the assault pilot.

Edited by GuardDogg, 15 April 2019 - 06:50 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 14 April 2019 - 11:11 PM, said:

48KPH is too slow for just about every gamemode too

the problem is all the fast heavies. PGI needed to slow heavy mechs down and they never did it. heavies should not be going nearly as fast as mediums with 30% better firepower and armor.

fast heavies are the reason why going 48kph feels so bad. because the speed of fast heavies is too close to the speed of mediums instead of falling equally in between the speed of assaults and mediums. so when youve got a bunch of lights, mediums, and fast heavies on your team it makes the slow assaults the slowest mechs on the team by a huge margin and they often get left behind.

I feel like you are living in the past. I rarely run heavies faster than 65 kph which is a pretty standard heavy speed. Some I even bring down to 60. I don't need much speed, once you learn how to do 48.6 kph assaults, 60 kph is plenty.

[Khale MacGregor]

GuardDogg, on 15 April 2019 - 06:47 AM, said:

That is a great example of a bad Assault pilot. But I can see a problem in that. Since he was left behind, he decided to help a light. But the light pilot was able to protect him anyways. Myself as an assault. I would have left the light to do his job, and continue on to team. Awesome video of a bad assault pilot. I would be upset as well to the assault pilot.

First off, he was left behind because he did not stay with the group, proof of which the Highlander(IIC I think) was walking the same speed the Mauler was, give or take 5/Kph, and the Highlander stayed with the team. He wanted to try to be billy bad *** and take out the light to get a kill or more damage or what ever, when the PIR was already covered by the Flea( side note: i think i saw a veteran founder tag on that mauler? ) So it was the Maulers fault for that, not the teams fault.

Secondly, as an assault pilot myself, the first assault i ever bought and learned this game with was the KGC-000B, that ran at 48.6/KPH When i first started learning how to play, learning the weapon systems and everything else, I got my *** handed to me repeatedly, now about 5 years later, there are assault mechs that I am not good with others Im better with. It all depends on your play style, for example, the Zeus-6S. I had fun with this mech, It is by no means a front line mech, I have mine with an MRM-40, 4 x MPLs, 2 x LMGs and I average between 700-1000 damage with it nearly every time. and it runs about 76KPH. When the WHM-IIC was released, I could easily stand toe-to-toe with them in this mech, and I am happy to say that I won more battles against WHM-IIC than I lost. So saying the Zeus is a bad mech? its not really. Just got to learn how to use it to benefit your play style. as with any other Mech.


But if you are getting yelled at and being blamed, and given by your other posts and replies to this thread, I am going to say that you're trying to be billy bad ***, doing something wrong and you got called out. That is your fault not anyone else.

whether you are in QP or FP it does not matter, You are playing on a team. If you are in a slow mech and everyone else is faster, just say hey Im kinda slow, dont get too far ahead, and chances are, people will listen! or other pilots will stay and guard the slower moving assaults. As you can see in Darians Video.

[Xiphias]

GuardDogg, on 14 April 2019 - 10:36 PM, said:

What ever. I am not the best when I do try. I couldn't care about numbers. So, piloting a assault at 39 kph, I am now considered a potato pilot. Okay will take it. But when telling a whole assault lance to hurry up. ....No, not going to happen when doing the best.. We all know MWO is flawed in many areas. So, their is no need to be the best. Just do your best. Numbers, ranks mean nothing.

Running 39 kph is too slow for solo queue (any queue really). You need to rebuild your mechs to go faster, at least 45, ideally 50-55+. You're running too many guns and not enough engine. You're losing in the mechlab.

GuardDogg, on 14 April 2019 - 08:56 PM, said:

Yeah, seems to be a losing battle of what I am trying to get across. It is like I am writing stuff to people that are playing a different game. Because since day 1 of MWO. Lights are invincible, and Assaults are vulnerable.

You're right, you are playing a different game from all the rest of us. While lights have at times been very strong (beta Raven with ECM and poor hitreg) they are far from invincible especially in today's meta. If you can't understand that there isn't really much we can do for you. Your absolute refusal to listen to facts or advice from anyone else, but insistence that lights are invincible is simply projecting your own failings on the game.

I've tried to be provide advice on how you can get better and avoid the problems that you're running into, but you keep refusing to listen to anything anyone has to say that goes against your preconceived notions. You will never get better because your ego apparently can't handle being wrong.

At this point I'm just going to be blunt. Your team is berating you because you are a bad assault pilot, what they are saying is true, you are wasting tonnage that better pilot could take in the strongest class. You can either accept that and try to learn to be better or you can keep playing the way you do and just deal with the criticism. What's not acceptable is complaining that the game is imbalanced because it doesn't cater to your specific (bad) play style.

Play how you want to play, but be prepared to get criticized if your play is at the detriment of your team.