322 replies to this topic

[GuardDogg]

RickySpanish, on 14 April 2019 - 01:55 PM, said:

I didn't mean you, I meant in general it's highly unlikely to get 3/4 of the team's kills in any 'Mech. It's certainly challenging to un**** yourself in an Assault if you get into a bad spot, but I would say Lights and Assaults are about on par with difficulty. It's just that their play styles are so different you will find yourself gravitating toward one or the other.

Well, if I could upload images. It would prove lights can do better numbers than the other class. Even out do assault mechs. I even have one image of a light getting 5 kills, and damage of 800, and assault damage 152, 1 kill, 4 assists. And a Piranha doing damage of 613, 2 kills, 9 assists. So, you do not see the problem that lights (pros) are tougher than Assaults (even the pros).

[Kanil]

GuardDogg, on 14 April 2019 - 02:18 PM, said:

I even have one image of a light getting 5 kills, and damage of 800, and assault damage 152, 1 kill, 4 assists. ... So, you do not see the problem that lights (pros) are tougher than Assaults (even the pros).

If an assault 'mech is doing 152 damage in a match, it isn't being driven by a pro.

Edited by Kanil, 14 April 2019 - 02:25 PM.

[GuardDogg]

Kanil, on 14 April 2019 - 02:25 PM, said:

If an assault 'mech is doing 152 damage in a match, it isn't being driven by a pro.

Or witnessed it being cut off from friendlies, out running the assaults. The other assaults 3 were down in a minute. So, where can a pro survive in that? Not possible.

Edited by GuardDogg, 14 April 2019 - 02:31 PM.

[Athom83]

GuardDogg, on 14 April 2019 - 02:30 PM, said:

Or witnessed it being cut off from friendlies, out running the assaults. The other assaults 3 were down in a minute. So, where can a pro survive in that? Not possible.

I mean, even in that situation a "pro" in an assault could pull 300 damage easily and sometimes bring down 2-3 enemies with him.

[Gas Guzzler]

Khobai, on 14 April 2019 - 02:11 PM, said:

executioner, zeus, etc... are all clearly worse than other options.

if the game was balanced sufficiently then no mech would be suboptimal or unplayable.

the fact suboptimal mechs exist means PGI hasnt balanced mechs sufficiently.


but the only point I was making was that its an incorrect generalization to say assaults are the strongest class. The best assaults arnt representative of the entire weight class. There are bad assaults too. so if someone plays a bad assault, like a zeus, I can totally understand how they could get the impression assaults are weak.

My point was just that those mechs aren't even unplayable. There are better options yes, but they are good enough for me if I want a different flavor.

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 13 April 2019 - 08:13 PM, said:

yeah but most players dont pilot the bad mechs.

And this is based on what, exactly? What data do you have to back this up?
Please supply. We are all waiting.

I mean I know this will end up being yet another case of you deflecting from the point that - once again - you're making stuff up without any experience to back it up.



Anyway from someone that actually PLAYS the game (100s of games per month ) as opposed to posting on the forms and making stuff up about it - that statement is absolutely rubbish. All day, every day, I see people in all manner of mechs with all manner of builds. It is not "most players" at all. That is just yet another made up claim from someone that doesn't play the game.

[cougurt]

GuardDogg, on 14 April 2019 - 02:18 PM, said:

Well, if I could upload images. It would prove lights can do better numbers than the other class. Even out do assault mechs. I even have one image of a light getting 5 kills, and damage of 800, and assault damage 152, 1 kill, 4 assists. And a Piranha doing damage of 613, 2 kills, 9 assists. So, you do not see the problem that lights (pros) are tougher than Assaults (even the pros).

that's a completely useless example that proves nothing. i see lights and assaults alike pulling double digits just about every game.

watch some actually skilled assault players and you'll see them regularly put up 1k damage games, even with some of the weaker assaults.

[justcallme A S H]

Khobai, on 14 April 2019 - 02:11 PM, said:

executioner, zeus, etc... are all clearly worse than other options.
.

Worse? They just aren't great as in top tier.

The can and do still perform well. I mean right now in Solaris the Zeus is INCREDIBLY strong. But you know, it's a worse mech blah blah blah. Actually you don't know because you don't play the game.

Hell we even brought a EXE to Comp last week because of it's strengths. I've seen many t decent player crank 1k games in the EXE and Zeus before. But of course you come up with some contrarian based reply just to disagree because you have no idea what you're talking about again.

I'm mean I'm running around in a XL BLR with 5LPL. The mech and build in today's game is objectively bad. Still cranking 1k damage games in it, live on stream. Actually been running a lot of objectively bad builds and still performing quite well overall. Again it's not about the mech, it's the player first and foremost. Player means you need to play however

GuardDogg, on 13 April 2019 - 07:57 PM, said:

I have seen other classes do higher scores than assaults. But what I am getting at, is when others demand in anger to assault pilots to hurry up, and blamed.

Look at the leaderboards.

Assaults have the highest average match score.

Why do you think that is, exactly? The data and thus facts, cannot be argued.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 14 April 2019 - 02:52 PM.

[Kanil]

GuardDogg, on 14 April 2019 - 02:30 PM, said:

Or witnessed it being cut off from friendlies, out running the assaults. The other assaults 3 were down in a minute. So, where can a pro survive in that? Not possible.

If you're getting left behind with any sort of regularity, it again suggests you're not a pro. The other, faster 'mechs don't literally spend 100% of the match at full throttle.

Take a look at the class specific leaderboards. Right now there are more Assaults averaging 500 match score than all the other classes combined. They aren't quite a majority of the 400 average players, but still the largest single group. Looking at a more broad range of players, there's 1598 assault pilots averaging 300 match score this season, with medium and heavy at 1138, 1149. Lights have only 443.

[FupDup]

justcallme A S H, on 14 April 2019 - 02:45 PM, said:

And this is based on what, exactly? What data do you have to back this up?
Please supply. We are all waiting.

I mean I know this will end up being yet another case of you deflecting from the point that - once again - you're making stuff up without any experience to back it up.

Anyway from someone that actually PLAYS the game (100s of games per month ) as opposed to posting on the forms and making stuff up about it - that statement is absolutely rubbish. All day, every day, I see people in all manner of mechs with all manner of builds. It is not "most players" at all. That is just yet another made up claim from someone that doesn't play the game.

In his defense we do very clearly see certain mechs appear more commonly than others. You see way more MCIIs, Annis, and Faffies than you see Gargles and Exes. At least in Puglandia™ that is, maybe up in the golden comp paradise (where I don't play) Gargoyles get used just as frequently as MCIIs.

That doesn't make the latter mechs "unusable," but let's not shy away from the fact that some robots see way more representation than others.

[justcallme A S H]

FupDup, on 14 April 2019 - 02:53 PM, said:

In his defense we do very clearly see certain mechs appear more commonly than others. You see way more MCIIs, Annis, and Faffies than you see Gargles and Exes. At least in Puglandia™ that is, maybe up in the golden comp paradise (where I don't play) Gargoyles get used just as frequently as MCIIs.

That doesn't make the latter mechs "unusable," but let's not shy away from the fact that some robots see way more representation than others.

So what though? The amount of Tier 1 chassis fail to put up 200dmg ingame...

Is that now the mech or the player?


You can run the most META chassis in the game or the worst chassis. If you're a bad player you're going to do poorly in it because the chassis doesn't make up for poor play. I honestly don't see 4 MC/ANNI/FAFs every game either. It's a rather broad spread most games.

Given I have lots of screenshots I could go through it all, my gut feel says it's not overly lop sided to the level that individuals in this thread are making up is the case.

[Alienized]

mechs are bad because players are too bad to actually learn how to play them.
zeus, victor, executioner, gargoyle they require quite a lot of movement, terrain knowledge and balls.
the thing ppl lack the most? balls. you cant snipe or hang back with it.
its brawl mainly.

even i can pull out 1k dmg battles quite frequently in those and my aim is utter trash.
i knew that since ages so i had to put some work into it then those mechs are damn fine.

so: dont call mechs bad just because you are a lazy ez mode player. put work in it. figure them out and then enjoy it.

edit: dont forget the highlanders!

Edited by Alienized, 14 April 2019 - 03:07 PM.

[Burning2nd]

For the first time ever i can agree with you ash.... you wanna know why.... because Ive moved my self up In "percentile" rating... evidently as you can not correspond with anyone lower then 50 "percentile" rating.. Now that im above that.. we should be cool
with all that macho.. nerd mechwarrior gaaaaaaaaaa y online **** off line lets move forward on the real problem of the math that is being used

you continual use the term "bad player" (*because you use mwo stats to judge) as a reference...

while i have been systematically taken screen shots of me kicking you and your whole crews ***... piece by piece... When i make that thread... I expect you to step up and show what type of mechwarrior you really are......

m8


In other news...... mwo is still broken

Alienized, on 14 April 2019 - 03:06 PM, said:

mechs are bad because players are too bad to actually learn how to play them.

a lot of people dont get off on bad build wins anymore

its more about the statwarrior online....

cause evidently.. thats all that matters

[Alienized]

did you also take screenshots everytime he kicking your crew?
i been in a battle with ash just earlier and what can i say, he at least hold a line when all the sheep are cluelessly running around his mech, scared to get into a fight.

sometimes you get a good result out of it and sometimes you get mauled but doing the right thing is always worth it.
not many players done that in that battle. they tried to nascar, ran away from the once frontline (i was holding and had to withdraw as last) and well, he then held the backside while the team still shat pants from a single lurm mech.

blegh. i went in and killed it along with another mech until i got killed by 2 more mechs.

so i guess, it only takes 2 ppl that know what to do to win and everyone is happy eh?

[Alienized]

Burning2nd, on 14 April 2019 - 03:09 PM, said:

a lot of people dont get off on bad build wins anymore

its more about the statwarrior online....

cause evidently.. thats all that matters

bad builds? we talkin mechs not builds.

[FLG 01]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 April 2019 - 02:38 PM, said:

My point was just that those mechs aren't even unplayable. There are better options yes, but they are good enough for me if I want a different flavor.

I wish more people would get away from thinking in extremes. Mechs can be fun and viable without being 'meta' (the single most abused and misunderstood term ever in gaming history), and a Mech can be subpar without being DoA.

Imo, a Mech needs to be good enough to have fun in a match between average joes; that's all. The Zeus e.g. certainly qualifies. It is not the Mech I chose if I want to win at all cost, but it is good enough to guarantee a fun match.

[Sjorpha]

It's a shame Jarl's list doesn't have sorting per weight class, the leaderboards here are so clunky. Digging a bit suggests that assaults have the biggest average match impact though, the most interesting stat there would be to see average w/l per weight class.

In any case, the premise of the thread is just wrong. Assaults are stronger than lights on average, if anything the balance issues swing the other way and lights and mediums should be a bit stronger than they are.

Anyways GuardDogg I can understand the frustration of trying to play assaults as a player that for some reason can't make them work, it's the strongest weight class but also the most difficult. If you do better in lights and mediums why not just go ahead and play lights and mediums rather than making evidently false claims about balance.

Edited by Sjorpha, 14 April 2019 - 03:42 PM.

[GuardDogg]

Kanil, on 14 April 2019 - 02:51 PM, said:

If you're getting left behind with any sort of regularity, it again suggests you're not a pro. The other, faster 'mechs don't literally spend 100% of the match at full throttle.

You have to be kidding me. So, out running assaults that are moving at max speed is okay (telling them to hurry up when they are trying). And then blaming the charlie lance for the loss? Is all okay. Even a pro assault pilot can not keep up with lights (team). You are dreaming a pro can pull that off.

[Alienized]

jarl's list isnt really good for anything than pure numbers but it doesnt tell anything about the player's abilities or playstyle.
thats why jarls list is basically worthless.

i could easily stat pad my way up as well but i would bore the hell outta me doin that.

overall assault class is doing so fine, no need to complain really.

[Alienized]

GuardDogg, on 14 April 2019 - 03:42 PM, said:

You have to be kidding me. So, out running assaults that are moving at max speed is okay (telling them to hurry up when they are trying). And then blaming the charlie lance for the loss? Is all okay. Even a pro assault pilot can not keep up with lights (team). You are dreaming a pro can pull that off.

the problem is, assault lances got the best firepower.
too many times they RUN instead of FIGHT.

that is solely on assault pilots to blame. you cant shoot out of your back.
yes, they often get left behind but you knew that anyway.
walking backwards also isnt really much slower than going forwards anyway (49forward/33 backwards)
yet too many try to outrun faster mechs.
doesnt look smart to me.
turn around fighting back at least gives you a chance.

90% of time that doesnt happen soooo.....