104 replies to this topic

[Vxheous]

thievingmagpi, on 20 April 2019 - 11:24 AM, said:

TIL comp is the only mode that exists in mwo

Outside of some very specific outliers (usually extreme range builds for overwatch purposes, or slow assaults used for lane denial) what's viable in comp play is typically viable for quick play/group queue. If you don't see RACs being used often in comp play, it is because they're not effective at killing organized/good players. The facetime required to get RAC damage out opens up the user to excessive focused return fire. Even if it's straight isolated 1vs1, the person getting shot by racs can usually have time to shoot their weapons, and twist back and forth like a madman while getting back to cover, spreading that RAC damage all over the place.

Bushrat, on 19 April 2019 - 03:42 PM, said:

oK, I would honestly ask what you think I should run? I assume you would say something that I am most effective at that matches my play style? Thats what I do most of the time.... But i do want to get better and the top players mostly meta builds, so is it not wise to emulate them?

Mystere, on 19 April 2019 - 03:49 PM, said:

It was intended as a joke.

Having said that, a lifetime of doing my own thing instead of emulating someone else has served me really well … so far.

Everyone's expectations of performance is different. What Mystere considers doing own thing as serving very well, might be considered sub par by Bushrat, considering a quick comparison of their W/L, K/D, and AMS has them pretty close overall in performance.

Only thing I can suggest Bushrat, is to find better players than you, and learn from them/play against them. It's the only way you don't stagnate in skill with this game.

Edited by Vxheous, 20 April 2019 - 02:47 PM.

[Mystere]

Feral Clown, on 20 April 2019 - 11:18 AM, said:

Yeah which is why they are dominating in comp and high levels of play right? Except that they are not.

Apparently, LRMs are allegedly doing the same.

[Mystere]

Vxheous, on 20 April 2019 - 02:41 PM, said:

Everyone's expectations of performance is different. What Mystere considers doing own thing as serving very well, might be considered sub par by Bushrat, considering a quick comparison of their W/L, K/D, and AMS has them pretty close overall in performance.

I use a joystick, so buyer beware.

[Alienized]

Mystere, on 20 April 2019 - 04:29 PM, said:

I use a joystick, so buyer beware.

your only one? i always wondered how it is to play this with a joystick as i own one too but ... i would propably break it :|

[Feral Clown]

Mystere, on 20 April 2019 - 04:20 PM, said:

Apparently, LRMs are allegedly doing the same. https://static.mwomercs.com/forums//public/style_emoticons/default/ph34r.png

But they are being used. Rac's are not.

[FupDup]

Feral Clown, on 20 April 2019 - 08:32 PM, said:

But they are being used. Rac's are not.

RACs are totally being used.

Source: a RAC user

[Feral Clown]

FupDup, on 20 April 2019 - 08:35 PM, said:

RACs are totally being used.

Source: a RAC user

Guess I haven't seen any matches in the e division.

[Daggett]

Vxheous, on 20 April 2019 - 02:41 PM, said:

Outside of some very specific outliers (usually extreme range builds for overwatch purposes, or slow assaults used for lane denial) what's viable in comp play is typically viable for quick play/group queue. If you don't see RACs being used often in comp play, it is because they're not effective at killing organized/good players. The facetime required to get RAC damage out opens up the user to excessive focused return fire. Even if it's straight isolated 1vs1, the person getting shot by racs can usually have time to shoot their weapons, and twist back and forth like a madman while getting back to cover, spreading that RAC damage all over the place.

I fully agree but i'd like to add "What's not viable in comp play can still be very viable in QP." because most QP players are not organized and/or skilled enough to react properly.

And given the extreme range of opinions between "RACs are garbage" and "RACs are very strong" i guess the real issue here is that we all are evaluating the weapon from a different perspective. I think in the end RACs are both garbage and strong, depending on the environment.

So personally i would probably not run RACs in any competitive environment where my opponents know how to punish facetime, but i love them in the chaos we call QP.

[thievingmagpi]

Vxheous, on 20 April 2019 - 02:41 PM, said:

Outside of some very specific outliers (usually extreme range builds for overwatch purposes, or slow assaults used for lane denial) what's viable in comp play is typically viable for quick play/group queue. If you don't see RACs being used often in comp play, it is because they're not effective at killing organized/good players. The facetime required to get RAC damage out opens up the user to excessive focused return fire. Even if it's straight isolated 1vs1, the person getting shot by racs can usually have time to shoot their weapons, and twist back and forth like a madman while getting back to cover, spreading that RAC damage all over the place.

There's a wide gulf between "garbage" and "the best choice for high skilled play".

[Feral Clown]

Daggett, on 23 April 2019 - 05:49 AM, said:

I fully agree but i'd like to add "What's not viable in comp play can still be very viable in QP." because most QP players are not organized and/or skilled enough to react properly.
And given the extreme range of opinions between "RACs are garbage" and "RACs are very strong" i guess the real issue here is that we all are evaluating the weapon from a different perspective. I think in the end RACs are both garbage and strong, depending on the environment.
So personally i would probably not run RACs in any competitive environment where my opponents know how to punish facetime, but i love them in the chaos we call QP. https://static.mwomercs.com/forums//public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png

I play a lot of cw with an organized group. We've gone full racdad for giggles and the results where hilarious and people on the receiving end likely thought rac's were op. Same time most pugs using them in cw fail against semi competent players and only a couple mechs can run them half well. The Marauder although popular for this is not one of them. It exacerbates the problems pugs experience when they bring bad mechs and get roflstomped.

[Uzi Foo]

RACs are terrible. Just tank some damage and wait for them to go to sleep or the user overheats, or just trade freely against them with peeks.

All these high face time builds people like to use had made things so much easier. It's like people forgot how to build good mechs.

Edited by Uzi Foo, 25 April 2019 - 07:26 AM.

[thievingmagpi]

Uzi Foo, on 25 April 2019 - 07:24 AM, said:

RACs are terrible. Just tank some damage and wait for them to go to sleep or the user overheats, or just trade freely against them with peeks.

All these high face time builds people like to use had made things so much easier.

light gauss

light ppc

are terrible.

RACs are not terrible.

[Uzi Foo]

thievingmagpi, on 25 April 2019 - 07:26 AM, said:

light gauss

light ppc

are terrible.

RACs are not terrible.

Doing one sided damage trades against a RAC boat is almost trivial. By the time they start dishing out any damage I'm long gone. You have to rely on your opponent being a potato for the weapon system to be effective. Same with LRMs.

Edited by Uzi Foo, 25 April 2019 - 07:48 AM.

[Alienized]

tell that a DWF pilot

[thievingmagpi]

Uzi Foo, on 25 April 2019 - 07:47 AM, said:

Doing one sided damage trades against a RAC boat is almost trivial. By the time they start dishing out any damage I'm long gone. You have to rely on your opponent being a potato for the weapon system to be effective. Same with LRMs.

LMAO

[Feral Clown]

thievingmagpi, on 25 April 2019 - 07:26 AM, said:

light gauss

light ppc

are terrible.

RACs are not terrible.

So in your opinion are they as good as lurms? What builds you actually think are good with them because in my opinion, the bushie x1 and dragon 5n are the only options, and a weapon system (again in my opinion) that is only semi reasonable on two mechs means that the weapon is garbage.

[thievingmagpi]

Feral Clown, on 25 April 2019 - 08:05 AM, said:

So in your opinion are they as good as lurms? What builds you actually think are good with them because in my opinion, the bushie x1 and dragon 5n are the only options, and a weapon system (again in my opinion) that is only semi reasonable on two mechs means that the weapon is garbage.

Literally everything is better than lrms.


Shadowhawk
Corsair
King Crab
Sleipnir (lul)
Cataphract
Anni

[Feral Clown]

thievingmagpi, on 25 April 2019 - 08:20 AM, said:

Literally everything is better than lrms.


Shadowhawk
Corsair
King Crab
Sleipnir (lul)
Cataphract
Anni

None of the mechs you listed should be subjected to rac's or can be remotely considered good running them. Anni is slow but saying hey I don't need to twist with it at all and instead will stare away is a terrible usage of one (my boy Reck last had one with uac 5/10 and triple rac 2 that was funny but still not good). King Crab...lul with those arm mounts. Phract, an over armor quirked mech with crap mounts that is so wide it doesn't make sense to use them without twisting. Slep? (or black widow as well) should have an in game mechanism to lock people out of doing such things to this beautiful mech. Corsairs should be left back in their mechbays and never fielded. And maybe for the shadowhawk but bushie does it so much better seems to be no real point.

[thievingmagpi]

Feral Clown, on 25 April 2019 - 09:08 AM, said:

None of the mechs you listed should be subjected to rac's or can be remotely considered good running them. Anni is slow but saying hey I don't need to twist with it at all and instead will stare away is a terrible usage of one (my boy Reck last had one with uac 5/10 and triple rac 2 that was funny but still not good). King Crab...lul with those arm mounts. Phract, an over armor quirked mech with crap mounts that is so wide it doesn't make sense to use them without twisting. Slep? (or black widow as well) should have an in game mechanism to lock people out of doing such things to this beautiful mech. Corsairs should be left back in their mechbays and never fielded. And maybe for the shadowhawk but bushie does it so much better seems to be no real point.

LMAO

K bud.

The Shadowhawk and Corsair are good RAC platforms. Probably two of the best.

Annis use dakka. They require facetime.

King Crabs have low arms, yes. They can mount lots of dakka.

Cataphract, good armour and 4 ballistic hardpoints. EZ.


Insert Sleipnir farming 1k after 1k game.

Sounds like you don't know what you're talking about. ******* hilarious that you interpret the claim of "Not terrible" as "totally top tier meta". Reading comprehension man. What a thought.

Edited by thievingmagpi, 25 April 2019 - 10:15 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Eh? ... I don't get this RAC OP argument going on at all. They are situational, just like everything is. RACs are utter garbage for trades. If you are facetanking them for an extended periods of time however instead of trading against them, then who's fault is it really that your face melts?