34 replies to this topic

[R Valentine]

Then make ERPPCs worth a damn. Right now, ISERPPCs are absolute garbage. They run too hot, are too heavy, and don't do enough damage to make them even remotely viable. Only the Awesome, which is quirked to hell and back, can run them with any semblance of effectiveness. If your weapon requires god level quirks to even be usable then your weapon is broken. Adding +1 HSL does absolutely nothing for a mech. 30 damage is not impressive. 35 damage is not impressive. 40 damage is not impressive either. We're talking about mechs that way north of 90 tons. A 40 damage alpha strike is way too small to be viable, especially in our current NSR/NASCAR meta. And that's on top of the obnoxious heat that ERPPCs produce. The ERPPC may not be the only weapon that does more heat than it does damage, but at least the cERLL has weight and slottage on its side. The ERPPC has none of the above. Make the thing worth while and maybe you'll sell more of those mech packs you keep trying to bait us with +HSL quirks.

Edited by Kiran Yagami, 18 April 2019 - 09:27 AM.

[ChapeL]

I don't know what HSL stands for.. and at this point I'm too afraid to ask

[FupDup]

ChapeL, on 18 April 2019 - 09:48 AM, said:

I don't know what HSL stands for.. and at this point I'm too afraid to ask

Heat Scale Limit. It means that the number of guns you can shoot before getting a Ghost Heat penalty is increased.

The confusion is that the Heavy Small Laser also uses the same abbreviation...


As for the IS ERPPC, I've felt that most IS PPCs could use a bit less heat and a bit more velocity for a long time (excluding LPPC, which should get a shorter cooldown instead to give it a niche).

Edited by FupDup, 18 April 2019 - 09:50 AM.

[Koniving]

ChapeL, on 18 April 2019 - 09:48 AM, said:

I don't know what HSL stands for.. and at this point I'm too afraid to ask

Never be afraid to ask something.

[LordNothing]

the problem with is ppcs is is heat sinks. clanners can cram heat sinks everywhere and get four cerppcs cycling like they were ac5s.

i tried doing a tripple hppc mad2 and couldnt get enough heat sinks in there to do with it what i could do with a warhawk. it works better as a dual hppc platform but it still aint no warhawk.

i think id actually bump the is ppc heat cap to 4 lppcs. 3 ppc/erppc. hppc can stay at 2. hsr quirks can remain on all ppc mechs. heat buffs would also be appreciated.

Edited by LordNothing, 18 April 2019 - 10:00 AM.

[FupDup]

LordNothing, on 18 April 2019 - 09:53 AM, said:

the problem with is ppcs is is heat sinks. clanners can cram heat sinks everywhere and get four cerppcs cycling like they were ac5s.

I'd rather solve the issue by reducing weapon heat than buffing the heatsinks so that mechs with low tonnage would still benefit rather than just helping mechs that can afford a bunch of dubs.

[LordNothing]

FupDup, on 18 April 2019 - 09:54 AM, said:

I'd rather solve the issue by reducing weapon heat than buffing the heatsinks so that mechs with low tonnage would still benefit rather than just helping mechs that can afford a bunch of dubs.

yea buffing heat sinks has way too many side effects and id rather not do that. but its a huge disadvantage that is ppcs have to contend with and balance numbers for those weapons should reflect that. buff and keep buffing until an is mech can do what the warhawk can do (do not nerf the warhawk, its perfect).

Edited by LordNothing, 18 April 2019 - 10:07 AM.

[R Valentine]

FupDup, on 18 April 2019 - 09:54 AM, said:

I'd rather solve the issue by reducing weapon heat than buffing the heatsinks so that mechs with low tonnage would still benefit rather than just helping mechs that can afford a bunch of dubs.

The only reason the Awesome works is because it has a massive heat quirk, which was my whole point. If you need unbelievable quirks to make a weapon work then your weapon sucks. The entire IS PPC family needs a heat reduction, but the ERPPC is the worst offender while simultaneously being the PPC PGI keeps trying to force on us. They keep giving us ERPPC HSL quirks, but no reason to actually use them.

[MechaBattler]

Aside from HPPCs, I feel like most of the IS PPCs need a few small buffs. Especially Light PPCs. I just can't build around Light PPCs. Snubs have their uses, but even they feel like they need a tweak to stand out a little more.

[Bud Crue]

Agreed.

-sniff-

I remember the 3 ERPPC Thunderbolt.

-sigh-

Oh right, its quirks were diversity limiting and acted as "a barrier to entry" so now it is just another laser vomit build. +1HSL wouldn't do much good for it (even if Chris were willing to bless it with such) since even chain firing 3 ERPPCs n their present state is still too hot. Back in the day on a Boreal defense, that thing was great. -sorry, was day dreaming.

Edited by Bud Crue, 18 April 2019 - 10:14 AM.

[R Valentine]

MechaBattler, on 18 April 2019 - 10:11 AM, said:

Aside from HPPCs, I feel like most of the IS PPCs need a few small buffs. Especially Light PPCs. I just can't build around Light PPCs. Snubs have their uses, but even they feel like they need a tweak to stand out a little more.

Snubs are still too hot. They aren't ERPPC hot, but they're too hot. It's not small tonnage or slottage investment to put snubs on your mech, and you don't get enough bang for your buck when you do. Even HPPCs still require quirks to be of usable status. Especially with PGIs new heat capacity limit, you just can't expect any IS mech to be able to fire obnoxiously hot weapons and still be viable. That mech would have to cool off unbelievably fast to make up for going straight to 80% heat bar in order for it to be able to fire again. Couple that with the new ST heat spike mechanic all but forcing standard engines upon energy mechs and you've got a recipe for total and utter failure.

[Wolfos31]

MechaBattler, on 18 April 2019 - 10:11 AM, said:

Aside from HPPCs, I feel like most of the IS PPCs need a few small buffs. Especially Light PPCs. I just can't build around Light PPCs. Snubs have their uses, but even they feel like they need a tweak to stand out a little more.

I have a 4 light PPC, 2 Small Pulse Crab that actually works very well. That said, I bet if I did the typical 6 ML/ERML build I could get even higher damage out of it. But I just love being a second line harasser and it has enough double heat sinks on it that I can fire the 4 ppcs almost non stop even on hot maps. The two small pulse are usually enough to dissuade light mechs from getting within the ppcs minimum range.

[Gas Guzzler]

MechaBattler, on 18 April 2019 - 10:11 AM, said:

Aside from HPPCs, I feel like most of the IS PPCs need a few small buffs. Especially Light PPCs. I just can't build around Light PPCs. Snubs have their uses, but even they feel like they need a tweak to stand out a little more.

I would argue that regular IS PPCs are probably the most usable of the IS PPC family. Heavy PPCs can be good in some situations, but are awfully heavy and hot for the IS DHS conundrum. I want to like them, but something holds them back a bit. One would expect the dakka PPC combo to evolve to include heavy PPCs at the 100 ton level, yet they are still just HOT.

[MechaBattler]

It is kinda telling that they only shine on heat quirked mechs.

Perhaps PGI is still afraid of "PPCWarrior Online". With the heat changes making DPS weapons better I don't see PPCs at any risk of being too OP. Those long cooldowns kinda prevent that even with a lower heat. So give us a PPC across the board heat reduction PGI!

[Gas Guzzler]

MechaBattler, on 18 April 2019 - 12:11 PM, said:

It is kinda telling that they only shine on heat quirked mechs.

Perhaps PGI is still afraid of "PPCWarrior Online". With the heat changes making DPS weapons better I don't see PPCs at any risk of being too OP. Those long cooldowns kinda prevent that even with a lower heat. So give us a PPC across the board heat reduction PGI!

I would like to try tapping down the heat on the HPPC by 0.5 a point personally.

[RickySpanish]

HPPC could use a small reduction in heat, the other PPCs are worse off though on the IS side definitely. MAD II feels like it ought to be the PPC platform for 100T, but there is no way - Grasshopper can wield the same HPPC setup as the MADII 4A minus one medium laser, and since XL isn't ruinous in a Heavy, it can do nearly 80KPH and jump a mile too.

[ThreeStooges]

Even with god level on paper quirks all is ppcs are hot ****. Max out your cool run and head gen nodes and still have hot trash. Even the panther kk is trash with ppcs with its 30-40% velocity quirk. Give that mech 40% less ppc heat and it might be worth the ten bucks. Poor K2 only has that puny normal 20% velocity you can find on about 4-5 mechs.

[Sjorpha]

Koniving, on 18 April 2019 - 09:51 AM, said:

Never be afraid to ask something.

What kind of porn did you have open in that doctored screenshot you posted?

I was afraid to ask but now you've helped me overcome my fear.

Edited by Sjorpha, 18 April 2019 - 01:13 PM.

[VitriolicViolet]

Yeah PPCs need a bit of help.

As others have said the best PPC is frankly the standard one.
ERPPC is way to hot, like ridiculously hot.
LPPC needs either be colder or have a second shaved off its cooldown or even both.
SNPPC could also use a heat reduction
HPPC is the one i use the most even if it is heavy and hot. it could do with a heat reduction as well

Ive got a Highlander with 2 and MRM 50, a Bushwacker with 1, a Panther with 1, Catapult with 2, Roughneck with 1.

Ive got a Annihilator with 2 HPPCs, 2 LPPCs and 1 SNPPC and it does fairly well.
My favourite use of a HPPC so far is one of my Corsairs has a HPPC paired up with an AC10 (only 100m/s velocity difference)

so i do use the HPPC and all the others except the ERPPC, extra range and no minimum just isnt worth the crazy heat

Edited by VitriolicViolet, 18 April 2019 - 01:48 PM.

[RickySpanish]

Sjorpha, on 18 April 2019 - 01:12 PM, said:

What kind of porn did you have open in that doctored screenshot you posted?

I was afraid to ask but now you've helped me overcome my fear.

I'm pretty sure it involved fat bottomed Awesomes getting Annihilated.