29 replies to this topic

[PhoenixFire55]

Eatit, on 26 April 2019 - 04:02 AM, said:

Not everyone is an idiot. Not everyone is a die hard fan of Battletech. The new people coming to this game may be young and never got to play the old games. It's possible that many of them have never seen a mech.

And what does this have to do with this particular ongoing discussion on a MECHwarrior Online forum? ...

Eatit, on 26 April 2019 - 04:02 AM, said:

I bet if you tried to be more helpful and less scornful you would get better results. Don't be the poster child for Salty, Toxic, MWO fans that everyone hears about. Encouragement and understanding are good traits. Impatience and negativity are not.

Better results in what exactly? ...

As for the rest ... I quite frankly give zero fks about how some random internet person wants me to behave. I've got plenty of understanding for people who deserve it, and no patience for people who don't.

P.S. In case you haven't noticed, I've actually given all the reasons why OP's particular suggestions are bad ... While at the same time I could have done this instead ...



Should have done this instead by the looks of it.

[FRAGTAST1C]

PhoenixFire55, on 26 April 2019 - 04:13 AM, said:

And what does this have to do with this particular ongoing discussion on a MECHwarrior Online forum? ...


Better results in what exactly? ...

He's trying to see if having new ideas and modes can entice new players into MWO since MW5 might grab their interest.

Better results in making the game less of the same old, same old QP mode with barely any emphasis on FW most of the time.

[LordNothing]

Nesutizale, on 25 April 2019 - 04:42 AM, said:

You have seen that the "of the mad kind" in the title? Yes the Ai has been pretty bad, hope that its better in MW5 but thats beside the point. Its a talk about what we can think of, brainstorming ideas, even bad ones to spice things up. Maybe a bad idea will spawn a good one at some point.

i should point out that in the golden days of olde this is actually how most multiplayer games worked and isnt insane at all. what i consider insane is that every game has to have a cheevo system, some kind of plantform to run on, centralized servers, social media integrations, dlc and all this modern fluff which i think takes away from the core game, all for no other reason than to fit in. none of the classic arena shooters needed any of that stuff and i still play them.

Nesutizale, on 25 April 2019 - 04:42 AM, said:

Suiciding dosn't give much points, its still more effective to play good then go in and die on the spot. Someone pointed that out in another thread pretty clearly.
As for what happens when players are leaveing...its a FFA envoirment so as long as one other player is there its on.
Mapsize and spawnpoints are something to consider, they either need to be far enough apart or random to prevent spawnkilling.

people are seeing this from the perspective on a one shot at glory game that mwo currently is (with the exception of fp which is 4 shots at glory). when you have open arenas and respawn the dynamics change completely. in the arena shooters of olde the only thing that mattered was getting as close to the top of the match scoreboard as you could before the rotation timer expired and a new map was loaded. that is hard to do if you feed the top players with leeroy tactics.

suicides were always a -1 on the scoreboard. you might see epic levels of heat discipline in these modes as people try to avoid overheating themselves down the scoreboard. people using their armor instead of their guns to maximize their damage output. in other words the game is exciting again. it would also kill hide and camp tactics as those often give horrible kill rates. you will see higher rates of kill stealing, which is a good thing for a pure ffa mode (its fun as hell to walk into a dual and kill both of them). for team modes, kmdds and killing blows might count as a half kill, only solo kills might count as a full kill. rewarding one person for what is a team effort is silly.

spawn killing could be remedies by filling the drop ships. its easier to fight off a lance of spawn farmers with another lance rather than let mechs drop one at a time where they can get ganked by 2 or 3 players focus firing. doesnt do much when there is a huge skill disparity between the teams and it turns into a drop farm because the unskilled team is afraid to leave their base which gives the skilled team no other choice than to drop farm. i think the walls and drop ship guns coddle players into thinking the spawn as a strategic location when its more like a death trap.

for ffa do what mwll did and spam mech hangers all over the maps, respawning players would always go to a random hanger, or preferably the hanger which is the farthest from any other mech. if the game had capable spawn locations, you could have a squirrel escape the farm and cap a new spawn so that if the original drop is being farmed, players can divert to the new drop location. this wouldn't work in fp because loosing a whole wave usually means you lost the game, but with unlimited respawns this gives players a way to brute force out of a bad situation so the game can go on. they probably wont top the score board, but they leave with a good experience.

as for players quitting, just make the matches open, you can join in progress if there is room or quit whenever without penalty. a rage quitting tater would quickly be replaced with a new player. id like to see a royal rumble type mode where you have a new lance dropping every few minutes. combine this with domination, in this case holding the ring makes you climb the scoreboard and wont cause the match to end. you could even have multiple locations on the map with a domination tower with circles of various sizes and payout rates scattered about. you could do this in a lance ffa mode where you have 6 different teams, each a lance, and each trying to get the most cap points.

Edited by LordNothing, 26 April 2019 - 02:38 PM.

[Nesutizale]

Anjian, on 26 April 2019 - 01:51 AM, said:

My idea is "Rush and Conquer".

Its a variation of Conquest with a limited drop deck respawn, with no weight minimums or maximums, or respawn 4X with the same mech. If used in FP, you use the FP drop deck with the weight limits.

Early stage, each team spawns from their original spawn point and heads out to capture 7 capture points.

Once each point is captured, you can respawn from these capture points. You will be given a map that will show you which points have been captured by your team and which by your enemy, and you can choose to drop any of the points captured by your team or in your original spawn point. You can decide which mech to drop and when you drop. Do you want to drop here to defend this point? Or drop here to so you can rush and capture this enemy spawn point? Or drop here because its closer to where the rest of your team is? Do you want to drop with your light, or with your assault? Make the right choice.

The rate of bar attrition for each team would be the same as Conquest mode but the required number of points is extended to 1000.

You have about 20 minutes to accomplish this, and if neither team fails their objective at the end of 20 minutes, the team with the longer bar or most points wins.

It will utilize existing maps that support the Conquest mode.

This sound so familiar....Battlefield inspired?

Eatit, on 26 April 2019 - 04:02 AM, said:

Not everyone is a die hard fan of Battletech. The new people coming to this game may be young and never got to play the old games. It's possible that many of them have never seen a mech.

FRAGTAST1C, on 26 April 2019 - 06:54 AM, said:

He's trying to see if having new ideas and modes can entice new players into MWO since MW5 might grab their interest.
Better results in making the game less of the same old, same old QP mode with barely any emphasis on FW most of the time.

@Phoenix
Pretty much what Frag and Eatit both said. I have played Battletech TT for my entire school time and I love that game. When MWO came out and my friends and I started playing I was the first to say "WTF are these values, that isn't how it should work".
Later I acepted that Videogames are different and adepted.

Now I see that MWO is frankly in a pretty bad state. Its fun for the few that stayed, also I might say its because we are used to the game but it lost to much interest in the general publics eye.

MW5 might indeed be a chance to bring in some fresh blood but when we stay at the status quo we will loose them again.
What we need are interesting ideas, so thats why I started a brainstorming and yes in brainstorming you also throw in bad ideas to see what can be done with it.

You can allways throw away stuff you don't like or that dosn't work but stuff never even thought about or brought up will never be looked at or inspire others to bring up ideas of their own or try to turn a bad idea in something good.

I don't know if you have ever worked creatively but thats pretty much what you do. 99% **** that you throw away for the 1% that is brilliant....so to speak.
Beside that I see your concerns, I even agree on some points while others I quite disagree but how you talk to others could use some work.

Edited by Nesutizale, 26 April 2019 - 02:51 PM.

[LordNothing]

FRAGTAST1C, on 26 April 2019 - 06:54 AM, said:

He's trying to see if having new ideas and modes can entice new players into MWO since MW5 might grab their interest.

Better results in making the game less of the same old, same old QP mode with barely any emphasis on FW most of the time.

thats one of the big issues with this game qp is a withered skeleton, fp is a bit more fleshed out but because unbalanced teams its not fun for most of the player base. solaris bombed because its not the solaris we wanted. if the new match maker works then fp might be a lot more fun for more players.

the only reason to keep qp, other than its absurd popularity which doesnt make any sense, is that it provides quick matches. replacing it with an unlimited respawn mode provides the quick games, play as long as you want/can. people dont afk while waiting for matches to start, if you need to afk all you have to do is quit and you can come back any time and redrop. its a lot more flexible with people with limited time or have to deal with a lot of interruptions (kids/old people/pets/bosses/etc). its also a lot better for leveling mechs as you can just grind it non stop for an hour or two without any wait time in between.

modes and maps could be absorbed by the new fp campaign system and the new match maker levels the playing field. fp becomes the serious business mode for hard core bt fans. idk what becomes of solaris, it seems to only appeal to such a small slice of the population that its effect on the populations of other modes is negligible at best.

another idea ive been kicking around is to make the custom games a lot more robust. include a lobby browser so you can find open custom matches set up by other players. you get a list like this:

tormaline 24/7 assaults only no lerms
terra therma flamer squirrels
polar highlands all day lerms lerms lerms
zellbrigen 2v2 all clan mechs no legging.
stock urbie arena city maps only

you just double click on one and you got a game. if you dont like whats available host your own. you could bring back all the legacy maps and retired modes and allow players to play what they want, even new experimental stuff like ffa and infinite respawn matches. even allow people to play unranked custom 3rd party maps.

[Nesutizale]

PhoenixFire55, on 26 April 2019 - 03:36 AM, said:

Pffft ... It is more effective for a skilled player sure, for a baddie it isn't. And obviously its not skilled players who actually want to farm suicide rushes in the first place.

So we have a mode that skilled players won't play? Hey problem solved itself New kids have their playground. It also works for balanceing. Greate...go on.

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Seriously are you slow or something? ... You got a match with endless respawns, which means it always have to be 24 active players. One player leaves, and there is nobody in search queue available. What happens? ... Match freezes mid-way with bullets hanging in the air waiting for minutes till someone joins the queue?

MWO allready supports matches with uneven teams. Adding a function for players to hop in and take an open spot isn't far fetched, it had been done in other games too.

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This is not a single player game, this is PvP, multiplayer ... why do people want stupid ai to be a factor in a PvP game all the time ffs? 1 player vs ai mode is NOT happening. If you want 1 player vs ai, go buy a mechpak MW5.

It dosn't has to stop with 1 vs Ai. How about 24 players against 24 Ai or even larger?
What about new consumables like Tanks and Elementals?
1 vs Ai is basicly a steppingstone and its frankly one of the ideas I also dislike the most, just see it as an option.

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No, because every QP map allows you to not feed yourself through any chokepoint, its the lemmings choice to be fed through them. In contrast FP invasion maps do force people to go through chokepoints, and needless to say, its considered one of the if not THE worst feature of current FP implementation. And you want to add another gamemode with forced chokepoint. So how about ... No.

Yes other maps have options to go around and still you will find people in the chockpoints at every game. Except for polar and HPG. First realy not haveing any and HPG beeing only a chockpoint. Go top via ramps, go low, go sides...its allways a chockpoint you can block.

For the FP maps, I only played FP a little and I didn't had the impression. Most of the times they where the best coordinated attacks/defances of all the maps with people actualy starting to work together, even as PUGs.
Again, short impression but maybe you don't speak for everyone.

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LOL! Best joke I've heard in a while. Yeah right, PUG assaults acting as cover for teammates. Yeah, like that is ever gonna happen. I recall times when I've played chokepoint-warrior-online in FP and the amount of "coordination" people displayed there. Oh boy, soooo coordinated ...

Yes PUGs will have their problems but again I had different experiances from you, maybe its different today but some of the Rasselhag drops with PUGs where awesome.

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You simply can not have something, anything, that is going to be well received by smart people and idiots at the same time. 5000 years of human history should have taught you that. You either choose one, or the other.

How you come up with smart and idiots is beyond me. Haveing different preferances in playstyles dosn't make people idiots or smart, just different.

Also I think I didn't said to bring them together but have seperate modes that cater to each playstyle. That dosn't mean that you have both playstyles and you also force both on them.
Thats like you would force everyone to play FW or Solaris too. These are quite different modes and they also cater to different groups of playstyles. Do you want to say that the people in this community are idiots because they prefere a certain gamemode?

@Lordnothing
Yes and I like the idea of that mode. Had that idea for private matches instead of QP but I think it could work for that too.

Edited by Nesutizale, 26 April 2019 - 03:26 PM.

[Pain G0D]

A CO OP mode of 12 mechs attacking a huge AI monster or gunship .

Possibly repair bays to cushion your mechs a bit .

[Unnatural Growth]

PGI has stated many times that the current Cryengine game engine will not support free for all style play. I also think it is hard coded, in PGI's heavily modified source code, to only be able to "see" 2 teams. So you're only going to be able to have Team 1 vs. Team 2.

[Nesutizale]

I strongly hope that with the move of MW5 to Unreal engine they will try to move MWO too. You could even keep the seperation between one beein a SP only and the oither MP only but they would hurt themself a lot, I think, if they don't make the move and fix some things along the way. Even just a performance upgrades and some bugfixing, rebalanceing and better MM would go a long way.

Bringing in new modes would be even better. Looking at the Jarls list the player numbers are dropping, even as new players come in. To me that means that MWO isn't only over its peak but falling down. Slowly but forseeable. I just hope that PGI knows and does something about it.

[evilauthor]

Pain G0D, on 27 April 2019 - 04:30 AM, said:

A CO OP mode of 12 mechs attacking a huge AI monster or gunship .

Possibly repair bays to cushion your mechs a bit .

Combine the two. The thing is a Union Dropship. It's armed, and it can repair friendly mechs that go into its mech bay, but only ammo and armor and only at a limited speed.

The other side also doesn't have to destroy the whole dropship, only the repair bay. Which they do by shooting it. And any mech in the repair bay is a sitting duck. And the Union's weapon turrets can be shot off.

Alternatively...

Have MW3 style mobile repair vehicles. They can change their location based on orders that can only come from the company commander (ie, someone on the team has to take command). The vehicles can repair mechs the same way they do in MW3 (ie, a mech walks in between them and powers down), but they only have so much repair material which is used up every time a mech gets repaired.

And the other team's objective is to destroy those vehicles. Which mean the company commander has a dillemma. Bring the vehicles close to the fighting so they're easy to reach for repair but risking the enemy main body destroying them, or keep them far away from the fighting and not be able to take advantage of their repair ability as well as risking them being found and destroyed by fast scouts.