67 replies to this topic

[Wil McCullough]

Vellron2005, on 03 May 2019 - 02:34 AM, said:

Personally, I don't see any reason why if you're in a clan missile mech, standing 400 meters away from an enemy, in direct line of sight, anyone would ever pick LRM over ATM..

This just shows that the role of LRM is an IDF one.. and that's been nerfed to shait.. so.. yeah..

It's a sad time for LRMs..

I fail to see how you fail to see that lurms suppress better at long range than atms, pack more missiles, run cooler and are less susceptible to mass ams because of the higher missile count.

Lurms are not better than atms. Atms arw not better than lurms. Stop trying to twist everything into an excuse to demand buffs to lurms.

Edited by Wil McCullough, 03 May 2019 - 03:13 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Vellron2005, on 03 May 2019 - 02:34 AM, said:

Personally, I don't see any reason why if you're in a clan missile mech, standing 400 meters away from an enemy, in direct line of sight, anyone would ever pick LRM over ATM..

Because at that range band, the LRMs are much more heat efficient. With ATMs, you are, quite literally, better off moving closer to your sweet spot. 130m ain't that far.

And if your argument is merely "personally" as personal-incredulity, you ought to actually get better.

Vellron2005, on 03 May 2019 - 02:34 AM, said:

This just shows that the role of LRM is an IDF one.. and that's been nerfed to shait.. so.. yeah..

No, this shows that you aren't using LRMs properly.

That being said, the problem is actually on the ATM's side of not having ammo-switching, because if that was the case the ATMs could be better balanced based on their ranges such as lower heat, which would make them competitive with LRMs at such a range.

Although granted, that is more encroaching to LRMs', the ATMs should it have ammo-switching would have the ammo optional and would have different uses.

Vellron2005, on 03 May 2019 - 02:34 AM, said:

It's a sad time for LRMs..

Not really. The lower arc with LOS use is actually breathing a new life to LRMs.

[Curccu]

Vellron2005, on 03 May 2019 - 02:34 AM, said:

It's a sad time for LRMs..

Lurms are fine...

[OfficerDingDong]

Vellron2005, on 03 May 2019 - 02:34 AM, said:

Personally, I don't see any reason why if you're in a clan missile mech, standing 400 meters away from an enemy, in direct line of sight, anyone would ever pick LRM over ATM..

This just shows that the role of LRM is an IDF one.. and that's been nerfed to shait.. so.. yeah..

It's a sad time for LRMs..

why not just switch to a different weapon system? I don't really get this whole "everything needs to be good all the time" because in that case there are a number of disregarded weapons that need some buffing.

Rolling nerfs/buffs happen from time to time. Many games do this (most?)

Time to switch the mechs and weapons you use for a bit bud.

[spider foot 5]

I'm not sure if anybody will read this, or has said this before, but as I'm toying around with atms, I do see some things of note. Namely, they are really flipping dumb sometimes. I think they try and take the most direct path to a target, even though I can't see him, so where lrms go up and over, atms just try and plow through a wall. and fail.

[K O Z A K]

spider foot 5, on 29 March 2020 - 01:03 PM, said:

I'm not sure if anybody will read this, or has said this before, but as I'm toying around with atms, I do see some things of note. Namely, they are really flipping dumb sometimes. I think they try and take the most direct path to a target, even though I can't see him, so where lrms go up and over, atms just try and plow through a wall. and fail.

That's how it's supposed to be. ATMs are already ridiculously powerful and easy to use, if you could fire them indirectly, with the damage they do, they'd be completely OP

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

spider foot 5, on 29 March 2020 - 01:03 PM, said:

I'm not sure if anybody will read this, or has said this before, but as I'm toying around with atms, I do see some things of note. Namely, they are really flipping dumb sometimes. I think they try and take the most direct path to a target, even though I can't see him, so where lrms go up and over, atms just try and plow through a wall. and fail.

aren't bullets and lasers equally dumb with the direct line of fire..?

man.. if only they'd implement something that thinks ahead and pilots the gunplatform to a point where it has LOS...
https://leaderboard....u=spider+foot+5
dude, you play since 2016 .. how on earth.....?

[Nearly Dead]

I tried two experiments last night in my Nova Cat B. Note that I am an average player. Dead in the middle of the pack for team score in most games, occasionally top score, occasionally bottom score, usually #5, 6 or 7. Average Joe.

3 LRM 15 and 3 ATM 6. Missile tonnage half and half, then added more ATMs because big surprise, I ran out of ATMs early. Exceptional damage if I was in the perfect range box. Got some kills with the ATMs that I could not with LRMs due to overhead cover. Worked well in open terrain firing them together as well. When charged however the instant damage cutoff at close range resulted in too many deaths.

Tried all ATMs. Never ran out of ammo, good news. Because I died before I had a chance to use them, bad news.

Nova Cat has no ECM. Do a single big damage shot early in the game and you are 1) In plain sight of a lot of mechs with time on their hands 2) Mr. Unpopular, 3) Squishy 4) Wrecked. With LRMs you start off firing over your teammates heads destroying armor and picking off light mechs when the opposition is fresh and not preoccupied with the immediate fight and as the game progresses you move up closer and help with kills but the opposition is too busy to single you out.

My take. LRMs wear down armor and take off arms and occasionally legs but getting kills takes too many missiles to be worth while. ATMs kill faster but not as fast as the ATM boat dies. With LRMs I can do 1000-1300 damage and we still lose if no one is finishing off what I started. A couple of teammates doing direct fire on the same targets can turn that same situation into a 12-3 stomp. I have had the same experience in my Kit-Fox; LRMs soften targets and another light and I can kill half their team in two minutes if we can get to them. I had one match just like that, two LRM mechs softened up the team, we went in and I got 4 kills and 7 assists with only 752 damage. 752 damage does not kill 4 mechs out of 11 attacked. Unless they were softened up by friendly artillery. I could not have killed that many mechs without the LRMs, the LRMs could not have killed them either, it takes too many missiles per mech to actually finish breaking the CT. But they made it possible for me and another light to do so. (Note that I am not saying you can't kill mechs with LRMs. I am saying that unless the other team drops with little or no ECM and AMS you can't kill a lot of mechs with LRMs without help.)

In other words, teamwork beats weapon tech. Gee what a surprise.

[Brauer]

Nearly Dead, on 30 March 2020 - 04:55 AM, said:

I tried two experiments last night in my Nova Cat B. Note that I am an average player. Dead in the middle of the pack for team score in most games, occasionally top score, occasionally bottom score, usually #5, 6 or 7. Average Joe.

3 LRM 15 and 3 ATM 6. Missile tonnage half and half, then added more ATMs because big surprise, I ran out of ATMs early. Exceptional damage if I was in the perfect range box. Got some kills with the ATMs that I could not with LRMs due to overhead cover. Worked well in open terrain firing them together as well. When charged however the instant damage cutoff at close range resulted in too many deaths.

Tried all ATMs. Never ran out of ammo, good news. Because I died before I had a chance to use them, bad news.

Nova Cat has no ECM. Do a single big damage shot early in the game and you are 1) In plain sight of a lot of mechs with time on their hands 2) Mr. Unpopular, 3) Squishy 4) Wrecked. With LRMs you start off firing over your teammates heads destroying armor and picking off light mechs when the opposition is fresh and not preoccupied with the immediate fight and as the game progresses you move up closer and help with kills but the opposition is too busy to single you out.

My take. LRMs wear down armor and take off arms and occasionally legs but getting kills takes too many missiles to be worth while. ATMs kill faster but not as fast as the ATM boat dies. With LRMs I can do 1000-1300 damage and we still lose if no one is finishing off what I started. A couple of teammates doing direct fire on the same targets can turn that same situation into a 12-3 stomp. I have had the same experience in my Kit-Fox; LRMs soften targets and another light and I can kill half their team in two minutes if we can get to them. I had one match just like that, two LRM mechs softened up the team, we went in and I got 4 kills and 7 assists with only 752 damage. 752 damage does not kill 4 mechs out of 11 attacked. Unless they were softened up by friendly artillery. I could not have killed that many mechs without the LRMs, the LRMs could not have killed them either, it takes too many missiles per mech to actually finish breaking the CT. But they made it possible for me and another light to do so. (Note that I am not saying you can't kill mechs with LRMs. I am saying that unless the other team drops with little or no ECM and AMS you can't kill a lot of mechs with LRMs without help.)

In other words, teamwork beats weapon tech. Gee what a surprise.

It doesn't take too many missiles per mech to get a kill. In direct fire lrms are absolute murder and require next to no skill, AND they can do damage from safely behind cover with 0 risk to the lurmer. ATMs at least require some level of exposure, but ATM poptarts are absolute murder at the correct range and many ATM poptart chassis are able to stay in the top damage range while avoiding too much damage to themselves.

There are counters to both, but they can still be oppressive on some maps if played correctly. In most cases though tbh direct fire is far superior, and if you want to learn the game you are much better off playing direct-fire mechs to improve your skills and understanding of the maps. It's easy to pick up lock-ons once you have direct-fire down, the opposite is far from true.

EDIT: And yes teamwork is paramount, but I'm not sure what point you are trying to make about it.

Edited by Brauer, 30 March 2020 - 05:48 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

Nearly Dead, on 30 March 2020 - 04:55 AM, said:

ATMs kill faster but not as fast as the ATM boat dies.

Brauer, on 30 March 2020 - 05:47 AM, said:

ATMs at least require some level of exposure, but ATM poptarts are absolute murder at the correct range and many ATM poptart chassis are able to stay in the top damage range while avoiding too much damage to themselves.

There are counters to both, but they can still be oppressive on some maps if played correctly. In most cases though tbh direct fire is far superior, and if you want to learn the game you are much better off playing direct-fire mechs to improve your skills and understanding of the maps. It's easy to pick up lock-ons once you have direct-fire down, the opposite is far from true.

Point of note: The top player in the game pilots an ATM boat almost exclusively.

[Kubernetes]

VonBruinwald, on 30 March 2020 - 07:42 AM, said:

Point of note: The top player in the game pilots an ATM boat almost exclusively.

Lmao yes the ATM poptart is the worst MS-abusing build in the game. I really hate those things.

[RickySpanish]

spider foot 5, on 29 March 2020 - 01:03 PM, said:

I'm not sure if anybody will read this, or has said this before, but as I'm toying around with atms, I do see some things of note. Namely, they are really flipping dumb sometimes. I think they try and take the most direct path to a target, even though I can't see him, so where lrms go up and over, atms just try and plow through a wall. and fail.

They tend to plow through 'Mechs too at their sweet 3 damage per missile range. You're going to want jump jets to get them over obstacles, or a backup weapon system, depending on your weight class.

[Kroete]

Hazeclaw, on 29 March 2020 - 01:07 PM, said:

That's how it's supposed to be. ATMs are already ridiculously powerful and easy to use, if you could fire them indirectly, with the damage they do, they'd be completely OP

Was one reason why the lock-arc was reduced, you cant bend them anymore over obstacles.
Unttil this change you could "lob" them over your cover hitting enemys by using a uav.
Was a little too much if you used a atm 48 snv, poptarting atms is the same but with a little less atms and a lot more mobility and speed. So its even worse now ...

RickySpanish, on 31 March 2020 - 05:01 AM, said:

They tend to plow through 'Mechs too at their sweet 3 damage per missile range. You're going to want jump jets to get them over obstacles, or a backup weapon system, depending on your weight class.

Try a sunspider with 2xatm12 and 4xsrm4, its simple (40 tubes, ammo, 2 buttons) but fun.

Edited by Kroete, 01 April 2020 - 02:09 PM.

[AlphaStrikeFire]

There is a certain Clan mech that can mount 4 ATM 12s. Stone Rhino or Marauder IIC I do not remember which.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Kubernetes, on 30 March 2020 - 08:02 PM, said:

Lmao yes the ATM poptart is the worst MS-abusing build in the game. I really hate those things.

Take few AMS and those thing will be the ones getting killed. AMS kills ATMs good few missiles to shoot down then other missiles systems

AlphaStrikeFire, on 10 February 2021 - 11:23 AM, said:

There is a certain Clan mech that can mount 4 ATM 12s. Stone Rhino or Marauder IIC I do not remember which.

You can already do that with supernova

Edited by SirSmokes, 10 February 2021 - 11:40 AM.

[Wildstreak]

Each has advantages over the other.

[VonBruinwald]

Kroete, on 01 April 2020 - 02:08 PM, said:

Was one reason why the lock-arc was reduced, you cant bend them anymore over obstacles.
Unttil this change you could "lob" them over your cover hitting enemys by using a uav.

You can still do the bendy, although it's less pronounced and requires more skill than before.

• Take a mech with torso mounted missiles and switch off arm lock,
  
• Aim your torso away from the target.
  
• Use "free look" to aim your arms at the target,
  
• Fire when ready.

[The6thMessenger]

Hazeclaw, on 29 March 2020 - 01:07 PM, said:

That's how it's supposed to be. ATMs are already ridiculously powerful and easy to use, if you could fire them indirectly, with the damage they do, they'd be completely OP

Actually, you already can in a short capacity. Torso-Mount-ATMs, and torso-lock upwards while you lock with your arms.

You can clear small covers that way because ATMs still have a bit of arc. It's not going to work everytime, but it can be done.

[Wildstreak]

The6thMessenger, on 11 February 2021 - 03:36 PM, said:

Actually, you already can in a short capacity. Torso-Mount-ATMs, and torso-lock upwards while you lock with your arms.

You can clear small covers that way because ATMs still have a bit of arc. It's not going to work everytime, but it can be done.

Sometimes you can even get just beneath a ridge, lock someone, pop-up and fire revealing little of yourself then duck back down.

[RockmachinE]

So much bad info in this thread. Whats up with these new guys how have no clue about MWO and think they have the game figured out???