id argue that mwo did not fail. they funded mechwarrior 5 didn't they? that was the game they wanted to make. that's what the teaser they made was hinting at. mwo is just a means to an end. if this was the plan all along, did it fail? of course you might reserve judgement till you actually get to play mw5.
of course that doesnt mean mwo will not go the route of game death in the not too distant future.
If only MekTek hadn't had that server house fire incident thingy, then they would've continued their MW4 efforts for at least a little while longer.
The fire was only a setback. Unfortunately he (Jeho) suffered a stroke the following year. MechWarrior wouldn't be half the franchise it is today without his efforts.
But these guys don't know how to make money. You know the capital investment isn't going to last. They were selling mechs like for $5.
Then you have the old style servers where you got a gazillion servers all over the place and there aren't people to populate them. So finding matches are difficult, you have to scroll through the match list --- its old fashioned --- and jump to currently playing match that has players and a vacant spot on them. Its old school which has no place in this time and age.
I don't know anything about Hawken but MWO's two main problems are the MM and having QP as the main mode. Everything else is just an annoyance. I'd like the annoyances gone for sure but, the primary problems need to be addressed first.
I played Hawken from the earliest tech tests through release.
I stopped playing Hawken because the changes they kept making to the game made it less fun. Increased global agility, reduced health pools, removal of core mechanics like recoil, and a reduction of the importance of other core mechanics like fuel management or the winding TOW launcher trajectories all made the game simpler and less nuanced to play. By the end, if you weren't spraying and praying with the ultra low-heat SMG or the extreme RoF Vulcan, then you were getting rekt by people who were. That, and just hovering around shooting things because they turned the JJs into literal hoverjets that were easy to abuse.
So all of that, combined with them dumbing down the fun aesthetic elements (fainter smoke and particles, moving your game info from in-cockpit elements to a game-ified HUD overlay, etc.), and I was just finished. The slower, more deliberate play in the Closed Alpha and Beta builds of Hawken was fun and addictive. By the end, the game was almost unrecognizable. Too fast. Too jumpy. No real tactics anymore.
As for monetization, they had nothing worth buying. The cosmetics were incredibly lame and the Mechs were always free to avoid P2W. I don't recall them even being time-limited premium-only.
I played Hawken from the earliest tech tests through release.
I stopped playing Hawken because the changes they kept making to the game made it less fun. Increased global agility, reduced health pools, removal of core mechanics like recoil, and a reduction of the importance of other core mechanics like fuel management or the winding TOW launcher trajectories all made the game simpler and less nuanced to play. By the end, if you weren't spraying and praying with the ultra low-heat SMG or the extreme RoF Vulcan, then you were getting rekt by people who were. That, and just hovering around shooting things because they turned the JJs into literal hoverjets that were easy to abuse.
So all of that, combined with them dumbing down the fun aesthetic elements (fainter smoke and particles, moving your game info from in-cockpit elements to a game-ified HUD overlay, etc.), and I was just finished. The slower, more deliberate play in the Closed Alpha and Beta builds of Hawken was fun and addictive. By the end, the game was almost unrecognizable. Too fast. Too jumpy. No real tactics anymore.
As for monetization, they had nothing worth buying. The cosmetics were incredibly lame and the Mechs were always free to avoid P2W. I don't recall them even being time-limited premium-only.
Thanks for the insight (sounds similar doesn't it - mechanics and weapons might differ but the core issues are the same)
Bottom line is Hawken was sh!t and died because of it.
Despite what so many will claim, MWO is actually a really good game, it's a success for what is a niche IP, and that's why it's still around.
Ah but the population is dropping you say, unfortunately that happens to most games after a period of time, and did i mention it was a niche IP, so it had limited appeal to begin with.
You'd think most gamers would be into mecha, nope, not the case.
PS. The day Mekmatch went down was a sad day indeed, Mektek deserved a chance at a Mechwarrior Title.
Pariah Devalis, on 28 April 2019 - 12:52 PM, said:
you can also progress very far a given skill tree with just a few good matches
Bleeh no.
Mech' Matches Played Wins Losses Ratio Kills Deaths Ratio Damage XP EarnedTime Played
GRF-3M 15 10 5 2.00 16 7 2.29 7,704 14,445 01:45:43
I'm at 27 skillpoints now, no xp bonus or premium time. 1/3 of the skill points come from general too.
Just because hawkens skill system is bad doesn't mean MWOs is any less grindy.
I'd say i remotely know how to play the mech and it still takes me more then 10 hours of playtime (not including mechlab time) where i competitively hang behind everyone else.
The average joe probably needs weeks not days to get a mech up to standard (full build and skillset).
Quick video about where Hawken went wrong and how it affected player counts with their changes.
Similarities to MWO.
1; Publisher died
2. Game balance constantly getting revamped making players leave
3. Arena shooter (though hawken also was a class based)
4. Detail customization for your ride locked to individual mechs and not universally unlocked. (like our camo).
5. Horrible match making system
7. Veteran players have advantage of better stats than non-veteran players.
1. More like the Publisher did a hostile takeover on the developers and made the game into their own image.
2. Actualy, a lot of the changes were quite nice. I had a LOT of time in Hawken.
3. Except how Hawken did it was quite fun.
4. Except that wasn't a bad thing? Also, you didn't have multiple chassis of the same mech? Also, when you unlocked a mech, you got customization parts of that mech you could put on other mechs?
5. Again, not really.
6?
7. Again, not really. Most weapon "upgrades" were really side grades with different behaviors. Sure there were "II" variants of basic/old mechs, but they didn't really have a "distinct" advantage over the normal one. Usually they just had a slightly different loadout option or their ability was slightly reworked with different values (like, cool more heat but it takes longer, more front protection at the cost of rear and side protection, etc).
Xetelian, on 28 April 2019 - 12:29 PM, said:
Just a few off the top of my head I didn't view the video more than once and some of these parallels are thin.
I haven't watched the video yet (I might after Finals today), and the parallels are thin because they are pretty thin when describing Hawken as well.
Xetelian, on 28 April 2019 - 12:29 PM, said:
Up until the new heat system I had played almost every day. I participated in every event and it was my main game. Now I play once a week with a couple guys and that's about it if I actually bother to show up. Most of the MWO guys i followed on Twitch are playing new games like Apex Legends and other things instead of MWO.
Feeling my passion die is regrettable and the last heat nerf really killed the game for me. I wonder how long until this Youtube channel does a death of a game on MWO.
...
I'm at 27 skillpoints now, no xp bonus or premium time. 1/3 of the skill points come from general too.
Just because hawkens skill system is bad doesn't mean MWOs is any less grindy.
I'd say i remotely know how to play the mech and it still takes me more then 10 hours of playtime (not including mechlab time) where i competitively hang behind everyone else.
The average joe probably needs weeks not days to get a mech up to standard (full build and skillset).
Most mechs and builds will run just fine with 20–30 skill points. The other 2/3 of the skills nodes are just minor buffs.
I am a fairly mediocre casual player and I do not notice the grind at all. This is not an mmorpg where you need to grind to max level before starting the real game (and grind for loot instead of xp). There is absolutely no pressure to get 91 skill points in your build - after the basic operations (if the build is hot) and sensors skills (radar dep, or ecm) where I accelerate the progress with gxp, the mechs just enter my casual rotation. I give new mechs preference to enjoy the x2 XP of 1st victory, but otherwise they are just another mech in the hangar. No grind at all.
MWO is a good game with one of the best and most generous F2P models.
I have not seen a perfect game yet. Never played Hawken.
It's not whether or not you like or dislike the grind. Not telling anyone what they should like or not.
It's just that you're probably not going anywhere anytime soon with the skilltree "with just a few good matches".
ShiverMeRivets, on 29 April 2019 - 03:03 AM, said:
This is not an mmorpg where you need to grind to max level before starting the real game (and grind for loot instead of xp). There is absolutely no pressure to get 91 skill points in your build
True but there isn't anything else beside grinding out skillpoints.
Apart from buying a mech and grind the skill points there isn't much to do ingame. Rinse and repeat.
Sure you can grind out faction ranks, or grind solaris boxes.. at the end of the day, if you grind equipment for your sorc in any rpg, or grind progression bars, grind is grind.
ShiverMeRivets, on 29 April 2019 - 03:03 AM, said:
MWO is a good game with one of the best and most generous F2P models.
It's not whether or not you like or dislike the grind. Not telling anyone what they should like or not.
It's just that you're probably not going anywhere anytime soon with the skilltree "with just a few good matches".
Without active premium time, I agree. With active premium time, I strongly disagree. 7-8 skill nodes per match is quite common for me for example, and I'm not even all that good. Some people might just forget about the difference if they run premium all the time for example, hence "just a few macthes" comments I guess.
It's a live service that has been around roughly 7 years (counting Open Beta till now). I feel like it is lasting about as long as most Live Service games hope to last. There are plenty that couldn't make it nearly as far.
MWO is most likely on the decline, however it is probably in the twilight years of a Live Service game anyway. There are some that make it farther, but most have fallen by the way side by the 7 year mark.
There is a reason that PGI is releasing MechWarrior 5:Mercs. They are starting their post-MWO income strategy.
I just hope that when MWO does eventually close up shop (whether it be a year from now, 3 years from now, or longer), it makes the server side information available to the public so that the game can live on after it's official run. It can be the official server software, or even just key information so that the community can build a server side emulator. Either way, it would be nice if PGI allowed people to keep playing the game they purchased if they choose to.
Personally i hate the nature of MWO being a F2P game, it takes too many unnecessary elements (mostly grind related) that harms the gaming experience. If i have a choice, I rather pay USD10~20/month (subscription basis) for full access to game content, no consumables, no skill trees, no C-Bills/MCs, only mech lab, and balance adjustment (if necessary).
I just hope that when MWO does eventually close up shop (whether it be a year from now, 3 years from now, or longer), it makes the server side information available to the public so that the game can live on after it's official run.
Wouldn't PGI shoot their own foot? If there is a demand (mechwarrior game) and they are sort of proficient in fullfilling said demand, why make it for free when they can provide it for cash?
I personally hope for a MWO2 or a sufficient MW:5 multiplayer mode by the time MWO is closing shop.
Imagine actual multiplayer campain mode with economy and progression (rougetech as an fps/simulator).
I'd pay fullprice + subscription for that.
Wouldn't PGI shoot their own foot? If there is a demand (mechwarrior game) and they are sort of proficient in fullfilling said demand, why make it for free when they can provide it for cash?
I personally hope for a MWO2 or a sufficient MW:5 multiplayer mode by the time MWO is closing shop.
Imagine actual multiplayer campain mode with economy and progression (rougetech as an fps/simulator).
I'd pay fullprice + subscription for that.
Once the game is officially done and the server are closed down, they aren't making money off of it anymore. The game is officially dead when it comes to PGI's end of the deal. At that point, it's no skin off their back to supply info to emulate the server side or offer the server software if it is feasible.
If there is a MW:O 2, then I'd imagine that they will make it different and unique enough to drum up interest in it regardless of a privately run server version of MWO: 1.
Obligatory...I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice...
P.S. I don't want to get too far down this rabbit hole here, but there is also some legal precedence for providing some sort of info to allow a game to be playable after it is officially shut down. Technically a game that a player purchases, or purchases content in is considered a perpetual license and a 'Good' and not a 'Service'. So therefore once a game is purchased (or content is purchased within a game) the consumer should be able to access those goods indefinitely. Of course it isn't feasible for a company to host game content forever, however they should supply the bare minimum to allow the game to live on (even if it is basic server packet info to allow a server side emulator to be created).
Accursed Farms on YouTube has an excellent video on this that I recommend watching. His title is a bit strongly worded ("Games as a Service" is Fraud), but don't let that influence your opinion from the get go, the content itself is very interesting.
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LordNothing, on 28 April 2019 - 02:45 PM, said:
