153 replies to this topic

[vonJerg]

tc-tc-tc-tc.... Let me enlighten you, worm....

[Bronn of the Blackwater]

vonJerg, on 08 May 2019 - 10:41 AM, said:

tc-tc-tc-tc.... Let me enlighten you, worm....

My torch is brighter and brings more wisdom

[Marquis De Lafayette]

I would love to see counter attack back, but am not nostalgic for what it was when it left us. I remember having to smoke “defending” teams out of their single DZ on maps like Boreal and Emerald. They would literally let you kill the gen (uncontested) and wait for you to push into a firing line set up in their dz. As long as they managed to keep kills even or better they would just never leave. Now, I don’t remember seeing teams actually win doing that....but folks tried and it was irritating. It was far more common to see folks retreat to a DZ (including attackers) if they grabbed a late kill lead on those maps. If they fixed that I would be glad to see it come back, but it was an issue as some of that nonsense did work a fair bit of the time.

[Mochyn Pupur]

R79TCom1 Night Lanner, on 07 May 2019 - 01:27 PM, said:

If people started focusing objectives and not fighting it out then you would see just as many posts on here about how someone did not wait 30 minutes just to have an objective rush end the game in 10. Probably from many of the same people who are complaining about spawn camping.

I have said it before and others already have too, if you are getting spawn camped it is your own fault. Either your team is not good enough, or your strategy was flawed, or maybe you just got unlucky. I have probably been spawn camped more than I have spawn camped and either way I usually see it coming before the third drop starts. There is just something about the team crumbling that makes you see it coming. Usually it happens when on the side is trickling in new drops instead of regrouping and pushing in mass.

Lastly, I really would like to know what "real sports" end a game early because one side is getting stomped, because for me that stopped when I got out of little league.

How can it be a fault if you are learning a new game style? Everyone has to start somewhere and it is incumbent on the existing players, especially the experienced ones the newer players will inevitably drop against, to make the challenge of improving in that mode in a way that is supportive and not one where they are pushed away from because of what is poor overall behaviour.

Interestingly, the usual argument comes back in that it is "my right to go around seal clubbing just because I can and that I deserve to do so" - remember the people at the heavy end of the club are just that - people who also have a right to enjoy whatever system they are playing. The argument is just selfish and not conducive to engaging new players.

As regards to ending sports early, "[color=#666666]

United States have mercy rules for sports including baseball, softball, American football and association football." I have also seen it happen in English football and rugby; in this respect, rather than issue a childish challenge, do a little research first and save yourself from looking foolish

[/color]

[R79TCom1 Night Lanner]

If a player doesn't want to join a group or unit, just wants to solo PUG in a game mode that specifically say don't do that then it is their fault. This is being said by someone who for a long time was not an official member of a unit, but did group up with other players in other units as I got to know them. If you go into hard mode with no experience, don't complain if it's too hard. Suck it up buttercup and find someone to help you get better. If you don't want to or can't then make the best of it the best you can, but don't expect to be coddled. Yeah, getting rolled and spawn camped sucks, but there are ways to prevent it. Work with your team and figure it out. A simple, "He guys, I'm tied of getting rolled tonight. Is anyone up for calling or mind if I do?" in team chat before the mission begins is a good start.

And I said nothing about it being my right to club seals, mostly because I am a seal. I think at best 50/50 on all stats people tend to care about. But working off your metaphor, I have just as much right to enjoy my limited gaming time as the person on the other end of the club. I am playing the game as designed. A few suggestions have been made that might help the issues with spawn camping, smart DropShip pilots, carpet bombing LZ before drops, holding players in queue until 4 'Mechs are ready to name a few. Certainly not teleporting 'Mechs and forced elections; there is nothing in the BattleTech universe that warrants that kind of stupidity. But until that happens, I'm going to do what needs to be done to succeed in the mission and hopefully capture a planet for my faction.

My research is that I've played multiple sports in my lifetime, and watched far more. I have been on the side of massive losses and never has the ref called it early...not since I was a little kids playing little league baseball. I did as you said and looked a little further and, yep kiddie sports and some college rules (although they have to be agreed upon by both coaches) have mercy rules. Not in major league play of the sport.

[Bronn of the Blackwater]

R79TCom1 Night Lanner, on 08 May 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

If a player doesn't want to join a group or unit, just wants to solo PUG in a game mode that specifically say don't do that then it is their fault. This is being said by someone who for a long time was not an official member of a unit, but did group up with other players in other units as I got to know them. If you go into hard mode with no experience, don't complain if it's too hard. Suck it up buttercup and find someone to help you get better. If you don't want to or can't then make the best of it the best you can, but don't expect to be coddled. Yeah, getting rolled and spawn camped sucks, but there are ways to prevent it. Work with your team and figure it out. A simple, "He guys, I'm tied of getting rolled tonight. Is anyone up for calling or mind if I do?" in team chat before the mission begins is a good start.

And I said nothing about it being my right to club seals, mostly because I am a seal. I think at best 50/50 on all stats people tend to care about. But working off your metaphor, I have just as much right to enjoy my limited gaming time as the person on the other end of the club. I am playing the game as designed. A few suggestions have been made that might help the issues with spawn camping, smart DropShip pilots, carpet bombing LZ before drops, holding players in queue until 4 'Mechs are ready to name a few. Certainly not teleporting 'Mechs and forced elections; there is nothing in the BattleTech universe that warrants that kind of stupidity. But until that happens, I'm going to do what needs to be done to succeed in the mission and hopefully capture a planet for my faction.

My research is that I've played multiple sports in my lifetime, and watched far more. I have been on the side of massive losses and never has the ref called it early...not since I was a little kids playing little league baseball. I did as you said and looked a little further and, yep kiddie sports and some college rules (although they have to be agreed upon by both coaches) have mercy rules. Not in major league play of the sport.

Well please, tell me one sport when if you are losing the match, the other team can tie or inmobilize you in some way to not let you enter in the game area and star to play...

I never have seen a match of soccer, baseball, Football or any popular team sport where you penalize the other team having less players for being stomped...


What yo have here is the equivalence
to a exploit to not let the substitutes play to reemplace another player...


If NONE of the main sports has a Dynamic like that could not be because is
a)Unfair
b)Makes the game boring to play and boring to watch... ?????

Edited by Tirant Lo Blanc, 08 May 2019 - 01:01 PM.

[R79TCom1 Night Lanner]

Don't look at me, I didn't initially bring up sports. You should be complaining to Pepe Pig for saying MWO should have mercy rules because sports have mercy rules. I was just pointing out that he was citing a rule that is typically used in kiddie sports.

But I will say this: I play hurling, which is a very physical game that allows only 3 subs. If we play against a physically superior team there are plenty of scenarios where we could play short a player or two while being dominated in the score. As far as I know there is no mercy rule at the USGAA level. Also, hurling is probably one of the most entertaining sports I've ever played or watched.

Edited by R79TCom1 Night Lanner, 08 May 2019 - 01:30 PM.

[Johnathan Tanner]

R79TCom1 Night Lanner, on 08 May 2019 - 01:13 PM, said:

I was just pointing out that he was citing a rule that is typically used in kiddie sports.

[VigorousApathy]

I love pugging it. Through pugging ive come into contact with most units and the mech loadouts they prefer. I bought all of those mechs. This has allowed me to drop into just about any match, see what my friendlies are dropping in, and match those builds.

By dropping repeatedly in faction, and getting my teeth kicked in on a regular basis, Ive gone from an 80 something percent player to a high 90 percent player. Thanks for the beat downs, they made me stronger.

The only tip I have for solo players is to use your teammates; If they are playing well, help them by focusing fire. If they are making mistakes, take advantage by killing the enemy players focusing on them.

[Johnathan Tanner]

VigorousApathy, on 08 May 2019 - 01:31 PM, said:

Thanks for the beat downs, they made me stronger.

The only tip I have for solo players is to use your teammates; If they are playing well, help them by focusing fire. If they are making mistakes, take advantage by killing the enemy players focusing on them.

This

[justcallme A S H]

Given it's just a pile of strawman arguments...

Edited by justcallme A S H, 08 May 2019 - 02:05 PM.

[Johnathan Tanner]

[Feral Clown]

PeppaPig, on 08 May 2019 - 12:07 PM, said:

How can it be a fault if you are learning a new game style? Everyone has to start somewhere and it is incumbent on the existing players, especially the experienced ones the newer players will inevitably drop against, to make the challenge of improving in that mode in a way that is supportive and not one where they are pushed away from because of what is poor overall behaviour.

Interestingly, the usual argument comes back in that it is "my right to go around seal clubbing just because I can and that I deserve to do so" - remember the people at the heavy end of the club are just that - people who also have a right to enjoy whatever system they are playing. The argument is just selfish and not conducive to engaging new players.

As regards to ending sports early, "[color=#666666]

United States have mercy rules for sports including baseball, softball, American football and association football." I have also seen it happen in English football and rugby; in this respect, rather than issue a childish challenge, do a little research first and save yourself from looking foolish

[/color]

Start by making friends if you want to learn. Look for units to drop with in a mode that is GEARED TOWARDS TEAMWORK.

[VitriolicViolet]

the issue i see is after getting nailed on the first drop a lot pug teams dont push out as far as they did the first time.

if you win the first drop the only thing that makes sense is to rush towards the enemy to damage their second drop in your left-over first drop. that way by the time the enemies second drop is near you are on your second and have a distinct advantage because your 2nd isnt damaged and theirs is.

it tends to snowball from there.

Recently i played a game where someone on comms convinced the team to 'defend' about 500m from our spawn and we got destroyed, and then half the second wave was ruined by the enemies left-overs as they didnt even have to rush us, they just waited. we lost because we werent aggressive and aggression usually wins.

[Gilgamecc]

malz79, on 07 May 2019 - 08:21 PM, said:

I think some of the pugs are UNABLE to stand up to some of the better players in a bigger group, not that they dont wana leave spawn. Some will just bring very bad builds and get stomped anyway back to their spawn.


Anyway I think for FW (with its problems and whatnot) now, we just needa relax a little, try diff tactics or whatnot, and let the pugs get some kills sometimes.

KDR is important, and of course who doesnt want to have a good win/loss ratio? But a lot of times its just good players in a stack vs pugs now. Learn to swap factions if one side is imbalanced, at least everyone might find some good challenging games instead of always being the one whos stomping pugs in a 'stack'. Who knows? Some pugs might come back and get better, will be more fun for everyone.

how about low-grade nubbins learn to shoot back

[Gilgamecc]

PeppaPig, on 08 May 2019 - 12:07 PM, said:

How can it be a fault if you are learning a new game style? Everyone has to start somewhere and it is incumbent on the existing players, especially the experienced ones the newer players will inevitably drop against, to make the challenge of improving in that mode in a way that is supportive and not one where they are pushed away from because of what is poor overall behaviour.

Interestingly, the usual argument comes back in that it is "my right to go around seal clubbing just because I can and that I deserve to do so" - remember the people at the heavy end of the club are just that - people who also have a right to enjoy whatever system they are playing. The argument is just selfish and not conducive to engaging new players.

As regards to ending sports early, "
United States have mercy rules for sports including baseball, softball, American football and association football." I have also seen it happen in English football and rugby; in this respect, rather than issue a childish challenge, do a little research first and save yourself from looking foolish

dude it's a game where we role play (to varying degrees) mechwarriors who engage in combat for glory and a living.

why do you think a decisive victory is poor sportsmanship or whatever the hell you're accusing the better player base of?

[Feral Clown]

Tirant Lo Blanc, on 08 May 2019 - 01:00 PM, said:

Well please, tell me one sport when if you are losing the match, the other team can tie or inmobilize you in some way to not let you enter in the game area and star to play...

I never have seen a match of soccer, baseball, Football or any popular team sport where you penalize the other team having less players for being stomped...


What yo have here is the equivalence
to a exploit to not let the substitutes play to reemplace another player...


If NONE of the main sports has a Dynamic like that could not be because is
a)Unfair
b)Makes the game boring to play and boring to watch... ?????

Tell me which of the 'main' sports have a dynamic that matches beginners against top players? Oh that's right, none. Another example of nonsense this time in the form of a silly and inapplicable analogy.

Ironically though you attack Ash who has spent time trying to help teach and train players, who has been a key figure in driving change to CW and including particapating/organising matches on the latest PTS which seeks to help alleviate the problems of mismatched games. He has literally been a champion of the cause to make the faction play experience better for you.

What exactly have you done to give back to the community again? Oh that's right, whine, cry and attack. Thanks for your input.....

[SeventhSL]

Where there is a will, there is a way. Here is a solution that should solve drop camping amicably for all parties except those who love to behave badly. A simple mechanic that is far more lore friendly then feeding Mechs to drop campers one at a time.


The Solution:
An individual "Delay Drop" toggle button on the drop screen. Drop screen shows who is delaying their drop and who is not. This allows players to synchronise drops.

Delay Drop is set to OFF:

• By default.
  
• When the Mechwarrior loses a Mech and the default value is OFF.
  
• When the MechWarrior toggles it OFF in the drop screen.
  
• When there are no teammates currently alive on the battlefield.

Delay Drop is set to ON:

• When there are teammates alive on the battlefield, the MechWarrior loses a Mech and the default value is ON.
  
• When there are teammates alive on the battlefield and the MechWarrior toggles it ON in the drop screen.

While it is ON, the MechWarrior will not drop. When it is turned OFF, the countdown timer will start and the MechWarrior will drop as per normal.


Commanders will be able to toggle their team's default value ON and OFF. Please note that this will not allow them to override and individuals choice or delay drops indefinitely.


Outcomes:
The mechanic is simple but the outcomes take a bit of logic to fully grasp.

Victims of Drop Campers: These players will no longer be helplessly fed to the drop campers. They will have choices. They can delay and allow time for their living teammates to clear the drop zone or they can synchronise with other players and drop together in a more formidable fighting force to overwhelm the drop campers.

Timid Defensive Teams: There are no additional defences in the drop zones, so they can't hide there and they can't delay past the destruction of the living.

Selfish Snipers: They will get punished at the end just like they do now as they can't delay without living teammates.

Disconnects: These guys will drop as per the default value so Commanders can prevent them from getting farmed and synchronise their drops by setting the default value ON or OFF as required.

Edited by SeventhSL, 08 May 2019 - 06:18 PM.

[R79TCom1 Night Lanner]

I like your thinking, but I'm afraid something like that is beyond what PGI can/will do. I think something simpler like waiting until there are 4 dead 'Mechs before the DropShip delivers the next one with an override option would be easier. I also like the idea of capping the DZ shuts it down for X amount of time or bombarding the DZ as other options. Teleporting 'Mechs or forcing ejections must of been joke suggestions because there is nothing in the BattleTech universe that supports that and would be incredibly detrimental to overall game play.

[LordNothing]

justcallme A S H, on 07 May 2019 - 08:17 PM, said:

Counter-attack let defending & attacking teams change up tactics considerably with the gates being open. Both sides definately had to alter tactics/plans for the mode.

Should have never left IMO. Added good flavour.

like i said im not against allowing skirmish on invasion maps. even keeping the counter attack rules, but get rid of that omega or make it do something other than confuse noobs.

Edited by LordNothing, 08 May 2019 - 07:03 PM.