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Why Bother Having Divisions Without Weight Restrictions?


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#61 C337Skymaster

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 08:08 AM

View Postdario03, on 05 June 2020 - 03:09 PM, said:

I have never heard anyone else make this headshot levels of precision claim. And since for some reason the whole balance of streaks is to make them an easy counter to lights I find it very unlikely that they would need such precision.

I HAVE heard other people complain about the levels of precision required of streaks, these days. Mostly on Discord during matches, when people are actually trying to use them. Keep in mind, sub-50m fights are pretty rare and short-lived, especially in QP where you've got other 'mechs around to make sure the light keeps moving. If it stops dead in front of you, sure it'll be hard for you to hit, but it gets super easy for your buddies to shoot, and dies within seconds.

View Postdario03, on 05 June 2020 - 03:09 PM, said:

The Dire is one chassis, just about all the other clan assaults can have lower arm actuators. Sure you lose those actuators if you put ballistics in both arms of an omnimech but you don't have to do that on plenty of builds.

So you're saying "just don't play Dire Wolves". So why have them in the game? The whole point of PGI's "balancing" efforts was to ensure that every 'mech would be viable in combat, and if we're suggesting that one never be played, then obviously that 'mech needs help in the areas where it's hurting to return its viability. In this case, the DWF can't turn to save its life (literally), so it needs its turn-rate and torso turn range restored.

View Postdario03, on 05 June 2020 - 03:09 PM, said:

You also don't have to have those actuators to fight mechs that are right up on you. And if you have difficulty with a light getting behind you, find a wall to back up to. You can fit plenty of weapons on plenty of IS mech arms, you don't need the majority of assault weapons in the arms to fight a light, some spl or mpl as backup weapons is fine. In solaris yes you could take a 20t mech and get right up on an assault, but if said assault is running arm mounted weapons they can shoot you.

So THIS scenario is exactly what the OP was complaining about: you back up against a wall in your assault 'mech, the light 'mech then PINS YOU THERE, and proceeds to suck you off and eat your legs. And believe me, as one who has been in that situation repeatedly, WITH arm-weapons, (a pair of Artemis SRM6's on my Div 2 Solaris build, which have much more firepower and DPS than Medium or Small Pulse Lasers), that none of those provide enough firepower to even breach the armor on a Piranha, let alone destroy it. Adding a streak launcher to the mix (by replacing the CT SRM launcher) helps with the Piranha, but it's still usually a tossup of who will die first, and the longer recycle of the streak completely ruins the DPS of the entire build when going against other assaults in a later match.

View Postdario03, on 05 June 2020 - 03:09 PM, said:

And why am I required to run a small engine in that challenge?

The point of the smaller engine is to keep the Dire Wolf from being left behind, and to account for newer or poor players who can't afford an engine upgrade. It also is there to not rob all assault 'mechs of their damage potential by forcing them to focus on mobility, which they don't have by definition.

View PostHorseman, on 06 June 2020 - 12:35 AM, said:

There's your problem. Selecting mechs and optimizing your builds so that they're viable against most of the opponents you face is part of the game. If you refuse to do so (and "I run stock loadouts" is an implicit admission of that), don't be surprised when you lose. Nobody put a gun to your head and forced you to play stock mechs, you did that yourself.


As far as running stock loadouts, most 'mechs are quirked pretty well to support those particular loadouts, so they aren't actually bad loadouts. Add to that the fact that I don't play the bad ones after I've finished leveling them up, and I AM "optimizing my builds for the opponents I expect to face", but I'm doing so by choosing an entire loadout, not slapping new weapons on a chassis and seeing if they'll work. META Dire Wolves are not optimized for light-hunting. They're meant for high damage output against other large, heavily armored targets, even to the point of not having any back armor.

My all-time favorite 'mech, in MW2, MW4, and MWO, was the TBR-D, stock configuration. It's two ERPPCs, four Streak 6's, and four tons of ammo. Super simple, straightforward, and comes with the speed and maneuverability of the Timberwolf, range of PPCs, and guaranteed short-range damage of streaks. Add to that my use of the classic "Streakcrow" during scouting matches, where I would easily do top damage, even over and above other streakcrows on my team, and I'm fairly versed in the use of streaks. When I'm attempting to lock a light 'mech that's zig-zagging at me, and the lock is slowly but steadily progressing forward (resetting more quickly than it's being established every time it moves off the mark as the light moves), then suddenly, when the light passes closer than 50m, the lock goes away entirely, and only comes back when the light moves away from 50m, THAT'S what I mean by "headshot levels of precision within 50m". The required precision actually goes UP at the 50m mark. I know it's not just straight up impossible to get a lock, sub-50m, because I've done it, but only if we're both holding perfectly still (being sucked). And I'll tell you: a headshot when you're face-to-face with the head hitbox is much easier than when it's at max-range, because it takes up more pixels on the screen. The number of pixels that the lockon target occupies DOES NOT CHANGE as the range closes, but the distance it travels across your screen increases as it gets closer.

#62 dario03

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Posted 07 June 2020 - 12:23 PM

View PostC337Skymaster, on 07 June 2020 - 08:08 AM, said:

I HAVE heard other people complain about the levels of precision required of streaks, these days. Mostly on Discord during matches, when people are actually trying to use them. Keep in mind, sub-50m fights are pretty rare and short-lived, especially in QP where you've got other 'mechs around to make sure the light keeps moving. If it stops dead in front of you, sure it'll be hard for you to hit, but it gets super easy for your buddies to shoot, and dies within seconds.

So you're saying "just don't play Dire Wolves". So why have them in the game? The whole point of PGI's "balancing" efforts was to ensure that every 'mech would be viable in combat, and if we're suggesting that one never be played, then obviously that 'mech needs help in the areas where it's hurting to return its viability. In this case, the DWF can't turn to save its life (literally), so it needs its turn-rate and torso turn range restored.

So THIS scenario is exactly what the OP was complaining about: you back up against a wall in your assault 'mech, the light 'mech then PINS YOU THERE, and proceeds to suck you off and eat your legs. And believe me, as one who has been in that situation repeatedly, WITH arm-weapons, (a pair of Artemis SRM6's on my Div 2 Solaris build, which have much more firepower and DPS than Medium or Small Pulse Lasers), that none of those provide enough firepower to even breach the armor on a Piranha, let alone destroy it. Adding a streak launcher to the mix (by replacing the CT SRM launcher) helps with the Piranha, but it's still usually a tossup of who will die first, and the longer recycle of the streak completely ruins the DPS of the entire build when going against other assaults in a later match.

The point of the smaller engine is to keep the Dire Wolf from being left behind, and to account for newer or poor players who can't afford an engine upgrade. It also is there to not rob all assault 'mechs of their damage potential by forcing them to focus on mobility, which they don't have by definition.



Did they say it was headshot levels of precision? It takes more than it used to but still not much, definitely not headshot levels.

Where did I say anything about not running a Dire? You said most clan mechs can't run lower arm actuators, I simply pointed out that at least with assaults (the mechs that are relevant to this part of the conversation) that isn't true. You can run lower arm actuators on most of them (as you pointed out even the Dire with one of the omni arms can).

You can get enough dps to fight lights into a lot of assault mech's arms. You can also shoot lights before they get right up on you.

Standard engines in Anni sizes are not that expensive and come on other mechs, newer or poor players don't need much to not run an Anni with a 200. Also putting an engine bigger than a 200 into a Annihilator is not what I would call robbing it of its firepower, its just making it a more reasonable build by upping its top speed. You can still get plenty of firepower on one with a 300 engine.

Also

Quote

In this case, the DWF can't turn to save its life (literally), so it needs its turn-rate and torso turn range restored.

Quote

It also is there to not rob all assault 'mechs of their damage potential by forcing them to focus on mobility, which they don't have by definition.

This seems a bit contradictory.

#63 chevy42083

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 07:25 AM

View PostMakenzie71, on 08 February 2020 - 07:54 AM, said:

I saw you in a few matches last night. The biggest thing to remember is that Solaris has NO learning curve. There is zero chance an experienced pilot will take it easy onna new player, either, because there's too much risk...throwing a match to help a new player learn a bit means having to spend the next five matches making up the difference.
______

QP builds generally do not do well. Trial Mechs are universally rubbish. If your survival tree isn't maxed out you're probably going to die quickly. Treat every match like a learning experience.


This, definitely. I was hammering on CT and ended a match QUICKLY... because there's risk in anything else.
In hind-sight, I realized they were running a green mech... so maybe new or trial. HIGHLY likely not optimized for Solaris.
...and they quit dropping in Solaris after 2 matches.

Not everyone has the C-bills or inventory to mod/adjust to fix their weaknesses after a death... or they simply don't like dieing. I don't care... its how you find weaknesses. If a weakness kills me once... OK. If it happens twice... time to tweak. Same thing in Quick Play... but the goals and weaknesses are different in Solaris vs QP.

I don't have many NEW mechs... they're all years old, and often referred to as horrible by those that know todays standards and meta. I have to search to find what a meta build even is. But i know my Awesome's and most catapults don't fall in that category lol

Edited by chevy42083, 23 June 2020 - 08:21 AM.


#64 Horseman

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Posted 23 June 2020 - 09:53 PM

Don't forget you can see people's builds on the leaderboards. If the meta shifted for whatever reason or you can't be arsed to spend too much time on trial and error, you can note what are the 2-3 most popular chassis and build types for the division and work around one of them.





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