367 replies to this topic

[VigorousApathy]

justcallme A S H, on 22 May 2019 - 09:07 PM, said:

Where did I say someone called for a round table?

justcallme A S H, on 22 May 2019 - 08:37 PM, said:

......"actual" FP units were consulted, the last 2 round tables, honestly they did more harm...

[TheCanadianDJ]

Ghastly, on 22 May 2019 - 09:16 PM, said:

You also didn't outline anything, you just whined that FW players said things that caused bad changes.

Because PGI can test specific fixes on their own internal non-public systems like they have done in the past.

And is this in your expert opinion as a guy who streams a game? Because I'm speaking from someone who actually works in the field of software engineering.

You also didn't answer my question regarding the loyalist changes. How does telling most of the active FW community that they just aren't allowed to play healthy for the game?

Oof

Edited by TheCanadianDJ, 22 May 2019 - 09:20 PM.

[denAirwalkerrr]

J a y, on 22 May 2019 - 09:15 PM, said:

People with lesser skilled teams might have to do "less favorable" things to win, otherwise the team who has the more skilled pilots will simply get the W every game. I don't have an issue with GNX bringing in 511915 tier 5 pilots that'll throw 12 assassins at me because I'd rather get gen rushed than not play at all.

Another reason I dropped FP. Instead of getting better like units did years ago to make FP interesting to play for everyone you coming up with these lame excuses of “we gen rush because we bad and can’t get better” much like general QP croud.

Edited by denAirwalkerrr, 22 May 2019 - 09:21 PM.

[Echidna]

I think the last 9 pages of discussion make it pretty abundantly clear that the majority of FP players would rather go back to the way things were, with some minor tweaks: some map fixes, a basic tutorial for new players (and maybe a more FP oriented list of trial mechs, if you ask me, at least for basic functional decks). A way to limit in SOME form how fast units are allowed to switch based on the population on either side, but not absolutely. Scouting being forced on people to begin with wouldn't be such an issue if Scouting was anything more than a broken gimmick mode, and plenty of people over the years have suggested alternatives to fix it.

We've already been playing FP as it is for years, despite all the balance changes, the one-sided maps, long toms, etc etc. The core of FP is fun - playing for your faction, group or solo, in a type of gameplay setting entirely separate from QP with respawns, more objective focus and (ideally) team cohesion, yadda yadda. Expelling a huge swathe of long time FP players unintentionally isn't going to help, nor is forcing the scouting and invasion queues (who, at least from my experience, only spontaneously play each other's modes) to mingle. We've seen massive influxes of players into FP with past big FP events, though, and considering we have a QP event basically every week now, I think that's a pretty fair suggestion. Imo, loyalty rewards should also be more attainable, with more varied rewards. One old suggestion was rewarding a free mech at certain tiers, based on your faction. You'd get a lot more new players into FP with a more tasty fishing rod.
And for that matter, even if you don't believe that all players are equal in skill, tactics, or 'honour' in FP - which is true - that doesn't mean they shouldn't have a say. Yes, you can get the most productive information from people who understand the game well and are FP veterans, but the majority of FP players are still pugs, and this affects them just as much as us.

Ask almost anyone and they'll find something to gripe about with FP, it's true, and I think small, targeted QoL changes would be better than taking every suggestion on board. But what's pretty obvious is that an awful lot of long time FP players don't want anything to do with this patch, and you can make FP as pretty as you want, but it'll not mean anything if nobody plays it anymore.

[Foxylicious]

I think the major problem here isn't the bugs that need fixing, but instead the fact that most of the loyalist units are getting screwed over regardless of bugs. So while yes, a further PTS might be useful for fixing bugs, that is not the biggest issue here. Further PTS testing won't fix the fact that the system is fundamentally flawed and needs to be redesigned. After that redesign? Yes, test it! But the bugs, no matter how severe, are only making a horrible problem slightly worse.

[Ghastly]

denAirwalkerrr, on 22 May 2019 - 09:21 PM, said:

“we gen rush because we bad and can’t get better”

In the games to which Ash was referring, the first was because after we took a huge lead on kills wave 1 on Forest Colony Incursion, Ash walked his team way out to the water. We said 'screw it' and killed their base so we could get into a match against someone who'll actually fight us, and so they could get into a match against people who'll let them farm damage. The second game, we were specifically trying to win a planet to see if we could with a single 12-man (and we did), and we were, once again, still up on kills at the end of the wave 1 win, so using those matches as a reason why we're bad and shouldn't be listened to is kind of hilarious.

All of us in ISMO, everyone posting in this thread, everyone who has this game installed, will play the game given a choice. That's what's bad about these changes; because we're big fans of a particular faction, PGI is telling us that we aren't allowed to play.

Edited by Ghastly, 22 May 2019 - 09:31 PM.

[NeirSolon]

I can think we all can at least agree that 48 hours of Incursion should clear things up.

[Foxylicious]

NeirSolon, on 22 May 2019 - 09:36 PM, said:

I can think we all can at least agree that 48 hours of Incursion should clear things up.

That's an odd way to spell "Terra Therma Escort"

[TheCanadianDJ]

NeirSolon, on 22 May 2019 - 09:36 PM, said:

Terra Therma Escort for the rest of MWO's uptime

Foxylicious, on 22 May 2019 - 09:40 PM, said:

That's an odd way to spell "Terra Therma Escort"

????
What do you mean. That's what he said.

Edited by TheCanadianDJ, 22 May 2019 - 09:42 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Foxylicious, on 22 May 2019 - 09:24 PM, said:

I think the major problem here isn't the bugs that need fixing, but instead the fact that most of the loyalist units are getting screwed over regardless of bugs. So while yes, a further PTS might be useful for fixing bugs, that is not the biggest issue here. Further PTS testing won't fix the fact that the system is fundamentally flawed and needs to be redesigned. After that redesign? Yes, test it! But the bugs, no matter how severe, are only making a horrible problem slightly worse.

Yeah agreed. The redesign to FIX the loyalist stuff, despite what some seem to think, ain't gonna happen in a couple of days. Paul even said it's gotta be escalated and it's not exactly a simple redesign especially if there are bugs around Merc/Loyalist point accural as well as in-game earnings.

Thus the quickest way to get everyone up and running - back the patch. That can be done easily. Then redesign based on the, extensive, feedback given out already. So yeah if there is a PTS there is - is not, so what. It'd be good to test it because we now have 6-7 sizeable bugs plus anything else introduced. Rather than the PTS we did have which only was testing a portion of the functionality.

Ghastly, on 22 May 2019 - 09:29 PM, said:

In the games to which Ash was referring

Actually the one that sticks out was ~3-4 months ago. Caustic Incursion where it was a 4-wave base dive and of course you lost. [Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 08 July 2019 - 12:02 PM.
unconstructive, replies removed

[denAirwalkerrr]

Ghastly, on 22 May 2019 - 09:29 PM, said:

In the games to which Ash was referring, the first was because after we took a huge lead on kills wave 1 on Forest Colony Incursion, Ash walked his team way out to the water. We said 'screw it' and killed their base so we could get into a match against someone who'll actually fight us, and so they could get into a match against people who'll let them farm damage. The second game, we were specifically trying to win a planet to see if we could with a single 12-man (and we did), and we were, once again, still up on kills at the end of the wave 1 win, so using those matches as a reason why we're bad and shouldn't be listened to is kind of hilarious.

All of us in ISMO, everyone posting in this thread, everyone who has this game installed, will play the game given a choice. That's what's bad about these changes; because we're big fans of a particular faction, PGI is telling us that we aren't allowed to play.

That’s like 2 examples and for unit which wasn’t around when I was still paying attention to FP. For some reason I doubt it’s whole FP story after talk about T5 players from Jay.

[J a y]

justcallme A S H, on 22 May 2019 - 09:42 PM, said:

Thus the quickest way to get everyone up and running - back the patch. That can be done easily. Then redesign based on the, extensive, feedback given out already.

I'll stop here just so that we don't waste any more time (though it has been fun).

The patch needs to be rolled back. Everybody here will agree that the patch needs to be rolled back.

Paul/PGI, if you could roll the patch back, that'll make great progress just on the basis that you are giving us exactly what we ask for.

[VigorousApathy]

A few good things that came of the patch:

1. There's stories regarding the planet being contested. Thats cool.

2. A team cant sit in a lobby for 10 minutes coming up with a plan, while the opposing team forms and has 1 minute to figure stuff out.

3. You added a que counter into the friends list group menu. Thats awesome.

4. Theres a matchmaker. Great work.

5. Theres not a 10 match penalty for switching factions.

Roll back the patch, and stick to working on these things please.

[justcallme A S H]

J a y, on 22 May 2019 - 09:48 PM, said:

I'll stop here just so that we don't waste any more time (though it has been fun).

The patch needs to be rolled back. Everybody here will agree that the patch needs to be rolled back.

Paul/PGI, if you could roll the patch back, that'll make great progress just on the basis that you are giving us exactly what we ask for.

Yep - all things aside I don't think anyone is winning right now when no-one can play!

Roll it back.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 22 May 2019 - 09:52 PM.

[Bowelhacker]

Whatever happened to the idea of letting the lorenerds add in details for planets and such?

[Ghastly]

(Post deleted because quite a few post happened while page was loading and discussion's reached a good point.)

Edited by Ghastly, 22 May 2019 - 10:04 PM.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

FP needed fixes before the patch.

A lot of players stoped playing it.

Now it is much worse.

I get the feeling off: Pls roll back the patch..and stop touching anything anymore. Get someone with a clue..or sell MWO to someone with a clue.

It is too hard to handel for PGI. Its getting worse and worse and not better.

[Reno Blade]

Sidenote for Loyalist LP for a future implementation:

e.g. Conflict Wolf vs Ras, player is Loyalist for Davion

If your faction is part of the conflict, you gain 100% LP
If your faction is allied with the faction you play for, you gain 70% LP for your faction and 30% for the allied faction
If your faction is an enemy with the faction you play for, you gain 0% LP for your faction, but 20% for the supported enemy faction.

I'll just leave this here, as it might be useful for the future, but probably not for now.

[Kamikaze Viking]

Primarily: If this was supposed to be a patch to fix the matchmaker, Why are all these other things getting changed? the faction & contract system, and scouting or invasion queuing system, and mode selection systems all seemed fine as they were prior to this patch.

Secondly: PGI did not make it clear that fixing the matchmaker would also require redesign of other elements.

Third: I like the story driven change BUT my biggest problem with it is that they lock it to TIMED PHASES.
Why not make them Objective based Phases - with a target to complete (maybe with max timers)
eg
win 20 scouting matches. (max 2 hours)
collect 200 Scouting beacons (max 2 hours)
kill 1000 mechs in any mode(max 4 hours)
Capture 40 orbital guns in Invasion (max 6 hours)
etc
With whatever objective target numbers are appropriate to get phases ticking over and people active and happy.

This could use the existing Events style achievement conditions system and multiple conditions could be required for that story phase. Once Achieved then this story phase ends early and the next one begins. This variability would prevent the same modes at any time of day for people around the world.

Just my 2c

Edited by Kamikaze Viking, 22 May 2019 - 10:45 PM.

[Kamikaze Viking]

VigorousApathy, on 22 May 2019 - 09:50 PM, said:

A few good things that came of the patch:

1. There's stories regarding the planet being contested. Thats cool.

2. A team cant sit in a lobby for 10 minutes coming up with a plan, while the opposing team forms and has 1 minute to figure stuff out.

3. You added a que counter into the friends list group menu. Thats awesome.

4. Theres a matchmaker. Great work.

5. Theres not a 10 match penalty for switching factions.

Roll back the patch, and stick to working on these things please.

This is the right path to take.

Roll back Instantly.

COMMUNICATE your intent, what you can and cant change.
Eg. Due to interlinking of systems that cannot be separated.
(From a programming point of view Many of your objects don't seem to be independent and usable in different places, you should fix that but I doubt that's possible.)

Refine the good parts, remove the bad, try again next patch.

Edited by Kamikaze Viking, 22 May 2019 - 11:03 PM.