119 replies to this topic

[Valdarion Silarius]

Chris Lowrey, on 22 May 2019 - 01:35 PM, said:

We will continue to monitor how the 'Mech settles into the game as players skill them up and will make changes if we feel they are needed.

Alright, thanks. I hope you guys consider adding those suggested quirks in due time. I don't want this mech becoming unused since I feel that it's almost has competitive capability for similar mechs in the heavy weight class, but isn't quite there yet.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 22 May 2019 - 02:32 PM.

[RickySpanish]

Chris Lowrey, on 22 May 2019 - 01:35 PM, said:

No need. We never drop new content or balance changes and then walk away thinking the jobs done. Any content or game-play change introduced in any patch has intended internal targets that we monitor for. If it does not reach, or overshoots our targets, we will make further changes. This happened recently with the AMS changes from the April Patch.

We have seen this talking point come up before with many new 'Mech releases. Huntsman / Sun Spider / Vapor Eagle off the top of my head had a number of similar CT complaints upon initial release. Sometimes players adapt. Sometimes, like with the Sun Spider, we find the need to intervene and make adjustments. We will continue to monitor how the 'Mech settles into the game as players skill them up and will make changes if we feel they are needed.

Reeely? Will you be addressing the phenomenal popularity of the MAD 2 post release day, once people figured out hitting the gun from any angle struck the CT?

[AphroThunder]

I feel like the Rifleman IIC is reasonably ok as is, not great just ok. And honestly if I were to improve it I wouldn't give it more quirks or a bigger engine, I'd just basically flip the arms so that the current top mount location would be the bottom most so that you wouldn't have to expose the whole torso to fire. If they did that I'd have no issues with the mech.

[Valdarion Silarius]

AphroThunder, on 22 May 2019 - 03:56 PM, said:

I feel like the Rifleman IIC is reasonably ok as is, not great just ok. And honestly if I were to improve it I wouldn't give it more quirks or a bigger engine, I'd just basically flip the arms so that the current top mount location would be the bottom most so that you wouldn't have to expose the whole torso to fire. If they did that I'd have no issues with the mech.

Originally the blue prints of the mech indicated that all of the hard points were going to be placed evenly to the bottom heat vent of the torso. So to give you an idea the bottom barrel hard point was aligned to the front lower heat vent at the front of the mech, thus having perfectly parallel gun barrels that wouldn't be obstructed by terrain or by user misinterpretation.

Regardless of the barrels I think the placement is fine, but something does have to be done about the CT. It might not even need the suggested armor quirk recommendations or engine cap increase if the hitboxes just need adjusting. I wish we had a PTS (with maybe some of the suggested quirks and mechs maxed out on the skill tree for proper testing) to get to the bottom of why it is getting cored so easily, instead of waiting for PGI's response for a determination if they think if it needs a fix. I just hope that their data that they collect isn't misleading where they do not act on the issue.

[RickySpanish]

Finally at the point where I can alpha those LPLs twice back to back. I've got the first chunk of the firepower tree unlocked and dropped FF armour for more heatsink slots. It's funny how heavily that HSL quirk defines the base variant, no other weapon combo comes close to the effectiveness of four bog standard LPLs. So far I think it's hands down the strongest of them all as well, the hexa uac 2 build probably comes close on the IIC-2, but without skills the VGL 2 outshines it without even trying. I'm looking forward to getting the whole firepower tree unlocked so I can drop a heatsink for the third jump jet, it wouldn't matter on another 'Mech but that extra jet really helps the Rifleman IIC.

Edited by RickySpanish, 22 May 2019 - 08:15 PM.

[Valdarion Silarius]

RickySpanish, on 22 May 2019 - 08:12 PM, said:

I'm looking forward to getting the whole firepower tree unlocked so I can drop a heatsink for the third jump jet, it wouldn't matter on another 'Mech but that extra jet really helps the Rifleman IIC.

I had a metric ton of GXP saved up for the Rifleman IIC packs, so the IIC(S) and the IIC-A were the ones I chose to naturally max out first. The IIC-A is outperforming the IIC(S) aka the prime at the moment, largely thanks to the higher engine cap, internal heat sinks and the torso energy hard points. I followed Baradul's build for the IIC-A and it does indeed hit hard with max skill tree points. That isn't to say that the pulse vomit builds are far from bad, but it seems like those UAC10's make all the difference for damage potential vs the 48 point laser alpha capabilities that the Prime has.

Even with max skill tree durability, I'm still facing the same hitbox issues of CT'ing. I honestly think the IIC-2 and the IIC-A are the true glass cannons, since they have the potential speed to back up the firepower. The IIC(S) is still suffering from the same issues because the speed isn't there to back up the punch, so in a sense it's a less potential hard hitter than the IIC-2 and the IIC-A since both of those mechs can still dish out the DPS in QP even with limited ammo.

[RickySpanish]

Arnold The Governator, on 22 May 2019 - 08:36 PM, said:

I had a metric ton of GXP saved up for the Rifleman IIC packs, so the IIC(S) and the IIC-A were the ones I chose to naturally max out first. The IIC-A is outperforming the IIC(S) aka the prime at the moment, largely thanks to the higher engine cap, internal heat sinks and the torso energy hard points. I followed Baradul's build for the IIC-A and it does indeed hit hard with max skill tree points. That isn't to say that the pulse vomit builds are far from bad, but it seems like those UAC10's make all the difference for damage potential vs the 48 point laser alpha capabilities that the Prime has.

Even with max skill tree durability, I'm still facing the same hitbox issues of CT'ing. I honestly think the IIC-2 and the IIC-A are the true glass cannons, since they have the potential speed to back up the firepower. The IIC(S) is still suffering from the same issues because the speed isn't there to back up the punch, so in a sense it's a less potential hard hitter than the IIC-2 and the IIC-A since both of those mechs can still dish out the DPS in QP even with limited ammo.

The thing with the 48 alpha is that you can dish it out again in a couple of seconds. As long as that's available I feel you can in fact trade with your target, but it's a short window indeed. Glad you are enjoying the A, I wasn't sure about it. I am not a big fan of twinned autocannons unless they are LB-Xs, especially not clan versions that fire the extra round. I bought the CH instead of the A for double gauss + energy. Funnily enough I ended up going double LB20-X / MPL on it and while it can't brawl, it can do some nasty jump jet dunks with those guns.

[Monkey Lover]

48 alpha at 600m cool no problem, ac40 at 360m on 100 ton mech game breaking lol

[Kiiyor]

Monkey Lover, on 22 May 2019 - 09:39 PM, said:

48 alpha at 600m cool no problem, ac40 at 360m on 100 ton mech game breaking lol

Well.... I see your point, but the damage delivery method is very different between the two weapon systems, with one being PPFLD.

[Valdarion Silarius]

RickySpanish, on 22 May 2019 - 09:09 PM, said:

I bought the CH instead of the A for double gauss + energy. Funnily enough I ended up going double LB20-X / MPL on it and while it can't brawl, it can do some nasty jump jet dunks with those guns.

Ironically I did the complete opposite. I'm waiting on the hero since I wasn't really all that impressed but went with the reinforcements and the collector's pack. I originally thought the IIC-A was going to be the best out of all the variants and the more I field it, the more I think that is the case.

So experimenting with the skill tree, this may sound odd but at least for QP I think speed tweak is necessary to keep up with potato nascar team mates to stay alive. If you run the 235 max engine that 63 kmph difference does mean life or death vs the stock 58.5 kmph speeds. Survival is priority number 1 but cool run is also mandatory in order to be effective. So when maxing out the skill tree I'd go:

Survival>Firepower and depending on your preference Mobility>Operations(Cool Run) or vice versa. So not in any particular order Survival>Firepower>Mobility>Operations(50% Cool Run) or Survival>Firepower>Operations(Max Cool Run)>Mobility for the Rifleman IIC prime (S). Since the CT is a problem speed keeps the Rifleman IIC alive, and without it you are light mech/fast mech worm food. It's a matter of trading that little bit of extra speed to keep up with your team and losing damage potential, or sacrificing that speed and hoping your team isn't a sack of potatoes so you can trade properly without overheating.

[BenAran]

Chris Lowrey, on 22 May 2019 - 01:35 PM, said:

No need. We never drop new content or balance changes and then walk away thinking the jobs done. Any content or game-play change introduced in any patch has intended internal targets that we monitor for. If it does not reach, or overshoots our targets, we will make further changes. This happened recently with the AMS changes from the April Patch.

We have seen this talking point come up before with many new 'Mech releases. Huntsman / Sun Spider / Vapor Eagle off the top of my head had a number of similar CT complaints upon initial release. Sometimes players adapt. Sometimes, like with the Sun Spider, we find the need to intervene and make adjustments. We will continue to monitor how the 'Mech settles into the game as players skill them up and will make changes if we feel they are needed.

I think CT, while big, is a bit of an issue, but the main thing are the arms.
if this were an assault with most weapons CT, it would be great. twisting like 20 degrees makes it almost impossible to hit the side torsos. however, since the arms of the rifleman are just default 65-tonner arms that hold most of your weaponry, twisting is actively discouraged.
I dont know how the stat tracking works, as in how detailed the information is, but my bet is that people often lose arms before anything else. had numerous matches where you can tell that my arms are the most hit component due to what I just described.
There are two possible fixes to this (if it really continues to be that way):
1: armor quirks on the arms.
The easy solution, but would only solve symptoms instead of the problem itself.
2: shorten the arms a tiny bit.
This, in my opinion, could solve this issue far more effectively.

[Monkey Lover]

Kiiyor, on 22 May 2019 - 09:55 PM, said:

Well.... I see your point, but the damage delivery method is very different between the two weapon systems, with one being PPFLD.

Convergence is way to wide and speed to slow for true pin point. More often than not it will hit two components on anything not standing around looking at the stars

[Kiiyor]

BenAran, on 22 May 2019 - 11:50 PM, said:

I think CT, while big, is a bit of an issue, but the main thing are the arms.
if this were an assault with most weapons CT, it would be great. twisting like 20 degrees makes it almost impossible to hit the side torsos. however, since the arms of the rifleman are just default 65-tonner arms that hold most of your weaponry, twisting is actively discouraged.
I dont know how the stat tracking works, as in how detailed the information is, but my bet is that people often lose arms before anything else. had numerous matches where you can tell that my arms are the most hit component due to what I just described.
There are two possible fixes to this (if it really continues to be that way):
1: armor quirks on the arms.
The easy solution, but would only solve symptoms instead of the problem itself.
2: shorten the arms a tiny bit.
This, in my opinion, could solve this issue far more effectively.

I think the arms are OK. I like that I have the option to shield with them. My issue is this:

[Valdarion Silarius]

BenAran, on 22 May 2019 - 11:50 PM, said:

There are two possible fixes to this (if it really continues to be that way):
1: armor quirks on the arms.
The easy solution, but would only solve symptoms instead of the problem itself.
2: shorten the arms a tiny bit.
This, in my opinion, could solve this issue far more effectively.

I'd welcome armor quirks on the arms, but I think they should focus on fixing the CT hitboxes first to determine if the mech really needs them. The only times that the arms really became an issue for me was close quarter engagements where an enemy light/team flanked me from the sides. It would be nice to have armor quirks on the arms since they are so massive, but they are not the main issue here.

Whenever I was flanked or shot from the side, I could manage torso twisting and spreading damage across the mech to save them. The saving grace of the arms is the narrow Marauder like profile when you stare down an enemy, so their profile doesn't stick out horrifically from a frontal view and isn't the first thing that an enemy will focus fire at in an engagement. It becomes even less of an issue when fighting from a range since the arm profiles are so small, the main target becomes your side torsos and center torso when your mech is out 600 meters or more.

Also, I don't like the idea of shortening the arms. The longer gun barrels is one of the distinguishing features of the Rifleman IIC that makes it stand out from other mechs in MW:O. There are very few unique mechs in the game where you can see your mech's weapon from your cockpit view, and to shorten the arms will be getting rid of that feature that makes it stand out from other mechs.

Ending on that note, let's have PGI fix the CT issue first before we decide if the arms need to be focused on. I'm definitely not opposed to having arm armor quirks, but perhaps it's a topic that should be brought up for another time when people have more experience with the mech. If we don't get the torso hit boxes fixed, then the mech will definitely need structural and armor quirks in compensation so it's not a bad suggestion by any means.

Kiiyor, on 22 May 2019 - 11:54 PM, said:

I think the arms are OK. I like that I have the option to shield with them. My issue is this:

Pretty much this.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 23 May 2019 - 04:36 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Played it a bunch more last night...

Definitely needs a minor hitbox retouch IMO. For a mech so slow in terms of engine it cannot be that easily CT'd when all it's weapons require facetime. I can't even wiggle-shield the mech to spread damage.

I thought the arms would be the weak point like the Jager, but with the normal armour level they seem fine! Plus the radar dish - when LRMs etc come raining down you're getting CT slammed cause of how much the CT takes up on the radar for instance.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 23 May 2019 - 07:16 PM.

[FLG 01]

I really don't meet them often. I wish I could test the abilities of that Mech but I am just not confronted with many of them, it I am confronted with them at all.

On paper it seems like they should be the ultimate glass cannon, and I still think they might be. But the few player I met were highly incompetent, sorry to say. That is not a fault of the Mech; I am sure competent players can use it to some effect.

[Jackal Noble]

666.275 dmg average over 40 qp matches. I don’t love, but I don’t hate it. I don’t really mess with any of the lower engines vars but they can bring true assault level firepower. The CT issue can probably be addressed with the dish adjustment if that’s the current case.
It’s got some nice pep which is a nice change from the more traditional sluggishness of Clan mechs.
I’d advocate for a CT adjustment and some arm armor. Too much love and this thing would be very dangerous in the right hands.

[Jackal Noble]

Also, my issue stems from a aesthetic one per usual; I dislike that on the 3 (4b, 2e), it’s energy points are at primary gun point and the secondary ballistic is located above albeit in a shortened version. It just looks weak and odd. Would be cooler looking if the ballistic point and energy point were swapped IMO.

[RickySpanish]

FLG 01, on 23 May 2019 - 05:00 PM, said:

I really don't meet them often. I wish I could test the abilities of that Mech but I am just not confronted with many of them, it I am confronted with them at all.

On paper it seems like they should be the ultimate glass cannon, and I still think they might be. But the few player I met were highly incompetent, sorry to say. That is not a fault of the Mech; I am sure competent players can use it to some effect.

It definitely demands a thought out playstyle. I have had wildly varying results mostly dependent on whether or not I made the correct choice at the beginning of the round in terms of positioning. My best rounds had 4 kills and damage in the 700 range, my worst rounds were utterly pathetic - 180 damage was my lowest. Ouch. With skills unlocked the capabilities improve tremendously, so perhaps we will see some more well played Riflemen in the future. That dish is a liability which is likely purposeful, but it needs a slight adjustment because as Ash said, LRMs are bruuutal and in general twisting to avoid CT death is difficult. However, this is definitely in a better state than the Marauder 2!

Edited by RickySpanish, 23 May 2019 - 05:52 PM.

[Kiiyor]

RickySpanish, on 23 May 2019 - 05:51 PM, said:

It definitely demands a thought out playstyle. I have had wildly varying results mostly dependent on whether or not I made the correct choice at the beginning of the round in terms of positioning.

It seems highly dependent on reading what your team is doing. If you're bogged down, it's great, as you get to peek and ponder how you're going to apply your damage. If your team is committed to nascar, you're in trouble. You don't have the mobility and firepower to make anywhere near as much of an impact, and you're too squishy to remain near the tail of the field to punish those trying to chase you up.

Situational so far. I'll persist, as I enjoy a good WUB.