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Countdown To The Dervish June 18Th


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#21 RickySpanish

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 10:03 AM

View PostTordin, on 14 June 2019 - 07:18 AM, said:




PGI, have had a really bumpy ride regarding making games ( they had a hand in Duke Nukem too, still Gearbox was the ral snort) Communication and seemingly odd behaviour, making us think they dont want to listen, but want us to suggest things? I have never gotten that, maybe PGI is adamant to try before all suggestions and even with feedback, they noping out anyway for the most time.

For one, and as far as I know. PGI never really wanted to make this acrady mech game called MWO. Remember the first MW5 trailer before MWO came around? Yeah, the one they would be making with Smith & Tinker? But S&T went bankrupt (?), harmony hold got all jizzy for lawsuiting the helluva MW5 if it were made, just because the Warhammer in old style/ unseen appeared in the video/ trailer.
NOW finally PGI can focus on making MW5M without Harmony Gold form bizarro world ******* around and biting their heels. So that can help their situation alot.

One thing I dont get why some uppity folks want/ think MW5 will fail??? How do YOU know it will fail? Didnt know you are visionary? This is beside the point of PGI not exactly... having the best track record.

****** *** attitude! Kinda sadistic and get pleasure over the struggle, apathy of the situation.
Just waiting with glee and hoping for failure so they can spew vomit and bile and tell with pride " I told you so, omg lulz, l33ting other know, PGI fail!" " Also MW5 graphic suxxors, lelz, bad game" Derp!

I really dont know whats worst, the nutjob side of the fanbase or the seemingly oblivous worst of PGI. Need some clean up to do while looking int the mirror and repeat x times " constructive mindset" /s

Also I dont actually care if this game dies, to be harsh. Sure we have shitton of mechs and spent alot of dosh on packs and whatnot.
But I would rather PGI keep a strong focus on making MW5 as great as possible. It actually might be that one game PGI actually care to make top- notch ( as Castle says ).
Need a fresh start. Hopefully MW5M succeds, and they finally can either port MWO into a new unreal 4 engine or start from scratch with it as MWO 2 and full compensation for the ones who have bothered to stick to and hope for better times in MWO (including me)


The overwhelming majority of forum elite complainants seem to hold this notion that if only the developers followed their advice, everything would be gold and peachy. This attitude seems to really double down if they believe themselves to also be Quite Good. Yet, none of them even work in the games industry and certainly none remember the original Mechwarrior vision by PGI, which was a single player game. They want MW5 to fail because that would vindicate their crap gameplay mechanic ideas. I'm sure MW5 will do just fine, and as long as it is as moddable as PGI say, it has a long future ahead of it.

#22 Nightbird

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 10:34 AM

View PostRickySpanish, on 14 June 2019 - 10:03 AM, said:

The overwhelming majority of forum elite complainants seem to hold this notion that if only the developers followed their advice, everything would be gold and peachy.



View PostRickySpanish, on 14 June 2019 - 10:03 AM, said:

I'm sure MW5 will do just fine, and as long as it is as moddable as PGI say, it has a long future ahead of it.


Go a few more sentences before you contradict yourself my friend

#23 RickySpanish

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 11:22 AM

View PostNightbird, on 14 June 2019 - 10:34 AM, said:





Go a few more sentences before you contradict yourself my friend


Dude come on, you really didn't see what I meant there? The game will do fine, AND if it is highly moddable, it will run for a long time. Flipping heck bruv!

#24 Nightbird

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 11:51 AM

View PostRickySpanish, on 14 June 2019 - 11:22 AM, said:

Dude come on, you really didn't see what I meant there? The game will do fine, AND if it is highly moddable, it will run for a long time. Flipping heck bruv!


It'll do great as long as the people that complain about how PGI does it get to mod it how they like, ROFL

(and I agree ofc)

#25 Luscious Dan

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 12:20 PM

View PostCulnan, on 14 June 2019 - 09:20 AM, said:


It's just a consistent difference between MWO and Sarna stats. MWO has a bunch of Clan Omnis running slower than their Sarna quoted speeds (for some kind of balance maybe?). For example the Timber Wolf, Mad Dog and Hellbringer all do 81 kph in MWO, but 86.4kph according to Sarna. The Bane and Dire Wolf have the same listed speed on Sarna at 54 kph.

That's not a clan thing, MWO mechs reach their tabletop speed after you get speed tweak nodes. Stock IS assaults walk around at 48kph the same as the Dire Wolf.

#26 shameless

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 12:29 PM

I want this game to stick around, I'm one of those players who'd be classed as a whale. Hell I backed MW5 at the top level without knowing if my computer can even run the game, because I have enjoyed games set in this universe for 30 years. I don't want MW5 to fail, just having seen PGI's track record, I'm not expecting this to be some huge success. Has this game ever had one million active players, at one time? Five hundred thousand? Yet they're saying those are the numbers they have to hit to turn a profit on MW5.

My negativity stems from so many years watching PGI throw away the goodwill of the players, and now, it's likely that it is going to bite them in *** hard.

I actually hope i'm wrong, that the game is huge, and so successful I can't help but upgrade my computer to play it well. And that I'd just shrug and smile at the cost.

I want it to be a success.

I'm just prepared for it to not be.

#27 Culnan

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 12:42 PM

View PostLuscious Dan, on 14 June 2019 - 12:20 PM, said:

That's not a clan thing, MWO mechs reach their tabletop speed after you get speed tweak nodes. Stock IS assaults walk around at 48kph the same as the Dire Wolf.


I dunno. That doesn't seem to add up, as some mechs do have matching Sarna and MWO speeds, both Clan (such as Stormcrow and Adder at 97.2kph in both) and IS (like the stock Enforcer, Centurion and Warhammer all at 64.8kph)

#28 FupDup

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 01:10 PM

View PostCulnan, on 14 June 2019 - 09:20 AM, said:


It's just a consistent difference between MWO and Sarna stats. MWO has a bunch of Clan Omnis running slower than their Sarna quoted speeds (for some kind of balance maybe?). For example the Timber Wolf, Mad Dog and Hellbringer all do 81 kph in MWO, but 86.4kph according to Sarna. The Bane and Dire Wolf have the same listed speed on Sarna at 54 kph.

MWO's speed values are the mathematically correct values.

TT is required to round all movement points upwards because mechs can only move a whole number of hexes (no decimals allowed), resulting in some mechs magically getting more speed than they're supposed to get. For example Daishis are not actually supposed to run 5 hexes per turn, they're only supposed to run 4.5 hexes but TT rounds that up to 5 because decimals are verbotten.

#29 Luscious Dan

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 01:38 PM

View PostCulnan, on 14 June 2019 - 12:42 PM, said:


I dunno. That doesn't seem to add up, as some mechs do have matching Sarna and MWO speeds, both Clan (such as Stormcrow and Adder at 97.2kph in both) and IS (like the stock Enforcer, Centurion and Warhammer all at 64.8kph)

Oh, I get it now. Sarna and tabletop are just listing the CBT tabletop math, where each hex is 30m and each turn is 10 seconds of combat. Mechs with odd numbers of walking movement points get a free 0.5 hex of running speed due to rounding. So a Timber Wolf is 5/8 instead of 5/7.5, since you can't move half a hex on a game board. MWO doesn't have to worry about hexes, so the top speeds don't have that rounding bonus. Effectively this means about half the listed speeds on Sarna won't match MWO.

... and by the time I get around to writing up my post, FupDup ninja'ed me Posted Image

Edited by Luscious Dan, 14 June 2019 - 01:39 PM.


#30 Nightbird

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 03:20 PM

Quirks are out, mech will be pretty average.

#31 RickySpanish

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 03:29 PM

View PostNightbird, on 14 June 2019 - 03:20 PM, said:

Quirks are out, mech will be pretty average.


Yes those medium laser quirks are rather ho-hum, but the hero is a little more agile than the other variants.

Edited by RickySpanish, 14 June 2019 - 03:33 PM.


#32 AncientRaig

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 03:29 PM

View PostFupDup, on 14 June 2019 - 01:10 PM, said:

MWO's speed values are the mathematically correct values.

TT is required to round all movement points upwards because mechs can only move a whole number of hexes (no decimals allowed), resulting in some mechs magically getting more speed than they're supposed to get. For example Daishis are not actually supposed to run 5 hexes per turn, they're only supposed to run 4.5 hexes but TT rounds that up to 5 because decimals are verbotten.

Which is unfortunate, because the difference between 54kph and 48.6kph is noticeable and I still don't know why PGI decided to use the "mathematically correct" values instead of the values that have been used in every game, both on the tabletop and on the PC, before this.

#33 Chris Lowrey

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 04:40 PM

View PostAncientRaig, on 14 June 2019 - 03:29 PM, said:

Which is unfortunate, because the difference between 54kph and 48.6kph is noticeable and I still don't know why PGI decided to use the "mathematically correct" values instead of the values that have been used in every game, both on the tabletop and on the PC, before this.


The reason those 'Mechs are labeled as 54 KPH is only due to "rounding" in the running speed calculations in table top. With each table top hex occupying 30 meters, and each turn equaling 10 seconds of real time the TRO Max KPH are often based on their table top attributes. But the running formula that all 'Mechs in table top used was running = 150% of your walking speed, in table top a walking movement of 3 hexes like many 100 tonners have would mean their "real" running speed of 4.5 hexes. For simplicity, this is rounded up in table top, but since we work with a computer game that is not limited by the hex system, we simply take the raw formula and run with the result with no artificial inflation like you see in Table Top.

This is why any 'Mech that had an "odd" walking speed in table top will have slightly different KPH results in MWO compared to it's TRO entry. (Most of the Clan Heavies, and a good number of mediums are the same but to a lesser degree because the TT rounding adds a smaller percentile of their total KPH.)

#34 Xeno Phalcon

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 05:23 PM

Looks nice, really dig the aesthetics - but those are some bad quirks, especially the hero one.

#35 CycKath

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 08:14 PM

Man the 7P paddles are biiiiig

#36 Zookeeper Dan

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Posted 15 June 2019 - 04:45 AM

I love the paddle hands! They were one of the defining characteristics of the mech. Good job translating them to MWO style without making them goofy!

#37 FupDup

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Posted 15 June 2019 - 12:11 PM

View PostAncientRaig, on 14 June 2019 - 03:29 PM, said:

Which is unfortunate, because the difference between 54kph and 48.6kph is noticeable and I still don't know why PGI decided to use the "mathematically correct" values instead of the values that have been used in every game, both on the tabletop and on the PC, before this.

Bro, what you're asking for is for a 300-rated engine to give a 100-ton mech the same speed as a 335-rated engine currently does. What happens to all of the engines rated 305 to 335 if you gave the 300 an artificial boost? Would you give them a boost as well? Would you boost every single engine above the 300 to keep the speed curve going up instead of dipping down? And what about the mechs like the Mist Lynx that also lose some speed because of TT's rounding? Would you boost them too or is this just for the fatties?

And also it would look super weird for a 295 engine to make your Atlas move at 47.7 kph, but then the tinny bump up to 300 engine would suddenly spike your speed up to 54. That would not make sense for such a gigantic speed spike from only a 5-rating difference in engine size and only a tiny tonnage difference.

Right now the speed formula is uniform and consistent across all mechs in the game. Every mech gets the speed they pay for. Nobody gets artificially inflated speed boosts outside of unlocking speed tweak in the skill tree (which is available to everyone).

You haven't thought through the ripple effect consequences of these actions. You can't give mechs like the Daishi their TT speeds without simultaneously borking the speeds of everything else because those TT speeds were not based on a uniform system. Some mechs got 0.5 hexes of running speed for free, some mechs got no freebies. MWO on the other hand is designed as a uniform system and as such cannot make such exceptions.

Edited by FupDup, 15 June 2019 - 12:12 PM.


#38 Steve Pryde

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Posted 15 June 2019 - 12:41 PM

View PostNightbird, on 14 June 2019 - 03:20 PM, said:

Quirks are out, mech will be pretty average.

You're very optimistic. PGI fu.cked up the hitboxes from the last two mechs and there is a big chance that this can happen again.

#39 Rosh87

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Posted 15 June 2019 - 02:51 PM

View PostChris Lowrey, on 14 June 2019 - 04:40 PM, said:


The reason those 'Mechs are labeled as 54 KPH is only due to "rounding" in the running speed calculations in table top. With each table top hex occupying 30 meters, and each turn equaling 10 seconds of real time the TRO Max KPH are often based on their table top attributes. But the running formula that all 'Mechs in table top used was running = 150% of your walking speed, in table top a walking movement of 3 hexes like many 100 tonners have would mean their "real" running speed of 4.5 hexes. For simplicity, this is rounded up in table top, but since we work with a computer game that is not limited by the hex system, we simply take the raw formula and run with the result with no artificial inflation like you see in Table Top.

This is why any 'Mech that had an "odd" walking speed in table top will have slightly different KPH results in MWO compared to it's TRO entry. (Most of the Clan Heavies, and a good number of mediums are the same but to a lesser degree because the TT rounding adds a smaller percentile of their total KPH.)


Wow ! I love the behind-the-scenes rationale / formulations you (Dev Teams) use, in terms of how you translate things into MWO - very cool to hear snippets like this. Thanks Chris !

#40 Arkhangel

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Posted 15 June 2019 - 04:09 PM

Honestly, I think the Dervish'll do fine, but then it's a Medium mech. should be noted, there isn't really per se a "bad" Medium Mech in the game, kinda BECAUSE they're meant to be the "Average Joe" mechs and main military units. Case in point, Cicada's a decent heavy scout, Treb's a good fire support, Centurion's a good escort for heavier units, Hunchback and Arctic Wolf are tough city fighters, Assassin and Nova are... well... assassins, and so on. Dervish'll find its spot quick, key is we just need to get into the thing's cockpit first and figure out what works best.

and as for the guys saying "MW5 will fail" and "MWO will die" yeah... so.. you want PGI, one of the main groups of folks who care enough about BattleTech to make sure there's still a game for lovers of the franchise to go under, who happens to also have a partnership with HBS for their game? As much as they may have "screwed up," ...you guys should take a look at MechAssault, and how well it did when it **** ALL OVER EVERYTHING because the guys who made it didn't care about the franchise. While, yes, it did bring in a large amount of new blood to the love of BattleTech, you should note just how quickly that game series died. Compared to that, PGI's track record with the property is stellar.

Edited by Arkhangel, 15 June 2019 - 04:16 PM.






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