39 replies to this topic

[Apache1990]

I'm pretty sure the biggest reason nascar happens is because people want to move to shoot the enemy from a direction they aren't currently looking.

The reason it never really happens in lower tier matches, IMO, is because people don't care how many are looking in that direction when they poke, because no one will notice.

[GuardDogg]

Noticed lately many are aware of the problem and trying to break it. Domination is the only play type that is not easy to avoid nascaring, even on Canyon network. If pilots can stop with go center, and only theta on conquest. Then nascar will slowly diminish. But in the mean time, we have to put up with it.

I recall making this thread many years ago.

https://mwomercs.com...-right-tactics/

Edited by GuardDogg, 24 June 2019 - 05:19 PM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

I don't mind NASCAR if people make the lap shorter by taking shortcuts. What annoys me the most is when the entire team takes the longest route possible and don't shoot at enemies during this cycle. It's really hard to comprehend why the team doesn't see one person cutting across the centre and firing at the enemies' tail and don't back him. They continue to go around the longest route.

Also, the maps haven't changed. Yet, somehow people can't seem to figure out the best possible way to shoot at enemies. Take Hibernal for e.g., The best possible way to play that map is to DEFEND THAT STUPID DROPSHIP. The enemies always get funneled there. Just move to the centre and guard the drop ship. Find cover at the centre and shoot down the enemies as they come out of the narrow passage. But almost no one does it. Everyone find their way into the narrow passage themselves. It's stupid. Other maps are so old and still, the only viable tactic is to chase the enemies it seems. And this happens a lot in Tier 2 and up! That's baffling.

[VonBruinwald]

FRAGTAST1C, on 24 June 2019 - 07:05 PM, said:

I don't mind NASCAR if people make the lap shorter by taking shortcuts. What annoys me the most is when the entire team takes the longest route possible and don't shoot at enemies during this cycle. It's really hard to comprehend why the team doesn't see one person cutting across the centre and firing at the enemies' tail and don't back him. They continue to go around the longest route.

It's always funny to see a Direwhale taking the outside track on HPG and complaining the NASCAR left him behind.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

the nascar just happens;
in nascar-queue, I've given up to tell people anything like hold this, focus that.. cause they rotate anyway, in 10 out of 10 games.
so get used to it, and use it.

to the OP: it's quite similar to certain things that happen with certain players in FW;
you tell them to leave their lurms at home and support the rest of the team by sharing armor, pooling armor, going for similar builds etc - and even before you drop you know that certain people just stick with their lurming anyway.
that's the point where friend-lists, block-lists, TKs and all the good stuff come in btw, but just as in QP:

getting used that certain people just do what they're gonna do - be it pointlessly running around a spot - or lurmin and hiding on fw-rivercity.


*hope that's vague enough for the inquisition.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 26 June 2019 - 05:58 AM.

[Willard Phule]

Nascar is life. Fall behind, get left behind.

[thievingmagpi]

it's gotten to the point where people just blindly nascar even when it's not "needed" or warranted (i.e. you're a slow assault and you're at the back of the pack and there's cover nearby or something)

people just do it now because they're so conditioned to do so.

Hibernal Rift is a *perfect* example of this. The ramp with the crashed dropship usually has the team pushing up it, but because of the wreckage they generally do so in a line. The other team gets a perfect view of them marching up 1 by 1.

So I'm perched on the lip of the valley, farming damage on the slow assaults lumbering down into the canyon and up through the wreckage. Ah yeah, ez win guys. Oh wait, there's *no one here*

So where is my team?

They're 500m away from the nearest enemy, with several walls of rock between them. They all hopped down into the canyon, and followed it towards to other ramp.

All they needed to do was stop, look a bit left, take the center hill and they could very easily rain down almost unopposed against an entire team slowly rumbling forward, 1 by 1 up the wreckage hill.

[FRAGTAST1C]

thievingmagpi, on 26 June 2019 - 06:50 AM, said:

Hibernal Rift is a *perfect* example of this. The ramp with the crashed dropship usually has the team pushing up it, but because of the wreckage they generally do so in a line. The other team gets a perfect view of them marching up 1 by 1.

So I'm perched on the lip of the valley, farming damage on the slow assaults lumbering down into the canyon and up through the wreckage. Ah yeah, ez win guys. Oh wait, there's *no one here*

So where is my team?

They're 500m away from the nearest enemy, with several walls of rock between them. They all hopped down into the canyon, and followed it towards to other ramp.

All they needed to do was stop, look a bit left, take the center hill and they could very easily rain down almost unopposed against an entire team slowly rumbling forward, 1 by 1 up the wreckage hill.

Everytime Hibernal is selected, I ask my teammates to defend the Dropship area and only 1 out of 10 matches ends up with the team being a team. Rest of the time, they keep running around rarely shooting.

[John Bronco]

thievingmagpi, on 26 June 2019 - 06:50 AM, said:

it's gotten to the point where people just blindly nascar even when it's not "needed" or warranted (i.e. you're a slow assault and you're at the back of the pack and there's cover nearby or something)

people just do it now because they're so conditioned to do so.

Hibernal Rift is a *perfect* example of this. The ramp with the crashed dropship usually has the team pushing up it, but because of the wreckage they generally do so in a line. The other team gets a perfect view of them marching up 1 by 1.

So I'm perched on the lip of the valley, farming damage on the slow assaults lumbering down into the canyon and up through the wreckage. Ah yeah, ez win guys. Oh wait, there's *no one here*

So where is my team?

They're 500m away from the nearest enemy, with several walls of rock between them. They all hopped down into the canyon, and followed it towards to other ramp.

All they needed to do was stop, look a bit left, take the center hill and they could very easily rain down almost unopposed against an entire team slowly rumbling forward, 1 by 1 up the wreckage hill.

It'll be 3-5 years before anyone catches on to this obvious strategy.

[Willard Phule]

thievingmagpi, on 26 June 2019 - 06:50 AM, said:

it's gotten to the point where people just blindly nascar even when it's not "needed" or warranted (i.e. you're a slow assault and you're at the back of the pack and there's cover nearby or something)

people just do it now because they're so conditioned to do so.

Hibernal Rift is a *perfect* example of this. The ramp with the crashed dropship usually has the team pushing up it, but because of the wreckage they generally do so in a line. The other team gets a perfect view of them marching up 1 by 1.

So I'm perched on the lip of the valley, farming damage on the slow assaults lumbering down into the canyon and up through the wreckage. Ah yeah, ez win guys. Oh wait, there's *no one here*

So where is my team?

They're 500m away from the nearest enemy, with several walls of rock between them. They all hopped down into the canyon, and followed it towards to other ramp.

All they needed to do was stop, look a bit left, take the center hill and they could very easily rain down almost unopposed against an entire team slowly rumbling forward, 1 by 1 up the wreckage hill.

Nascar is a by product of mobility and trying not to walk in front of your team while they're firing, most of the time. Considering that MOST people have difficulty unzooming, let alone moving and shooting at the same time. That doesn't take into account all the elite Lurmwarriors running to find cover to fire from, or the professional ubersnipers sitting a kilometer away "covering" you.

All of those things contribute to the basic concept of "follow the herd and try not to shoot your teammates"...also skills that are hard to develop in QP.

[Tordin]

What baffles me... even I appreciate left leaning turns and counter clockwise behaviour.. Erm NASCAR sheeep mentality isnt constructive at ALL. Even if it was clockwise running either. No.. Something about the maps advocating NASCAR by design needs to be done.

For example all centric areas map need to have their moth lightbulb attraction effect tuned WAY down. Lets say Polar Highland.. ONE central parabol antenna?? Have either three in a line or place it on a totally flat ground, no hill terrain. Maybe add some rock outcroppings in general on ALL maps advocating NASCAR to break up the lemmingstyle nonsense.

Some of the best matches I've had were on Solaris City for example. Good luck on NASCARing there.
Even chaos, spread out lines, bigger chance for smaller battles with 2vs2, or even a rare duel if left alone.
Also could you imagine 12 on 12 players storming forth with their mechs on a big open plain with NO centric point in the middle? Fear of missiles be damned, that wil at last force you to adapt, bringing anti missile weapons, which luckily players seems to be finally getting to point of bringing! I almost get an heart attack, hah!

Quote

That doesn't take into account all the elite Lurmwarriors running to find cover to fire from, or the professional ubersnipers sitting a kilometer away "covering" you.

Haha! Good points.
Im a bit of "lurm/ atm" warrior" and lasersniping cover pilot myself, just to test out and try something different, dont forget the itchy trigger finger calling forth my idiotic need to rush guns blazing into melee range from time to time, especially if I see my team is alredy doomed or I didnt "expect" the sudden apperance of enemy support for that ONE poor sob glaring into my red hot barrels!

Theres a reason my K/ D ratio is bad, I have too many mechs, no focus and an appetite to experiment with the hundreds of mechs I have, which should explain it all.

Edited by Tordin, 30 June 2019 - 09:40 AM.

[Wil McCullough]

Willard Phule, on 30 June 2019 - 06:16 AM, said:

Nascar is a by product of mobility and trying not to walk in front of your team while they're firing, most of the time. Considering that MOST people have difficulty unzooming, let alone moving and shooting at the same time. That doesn't take into account all the elite Lurmwarriors running to find cover to fire from, or the professional ubersnipers sitting a kilometer away "covering" you.

All of those things contribute to the basic concept of "follow the herd and try not to shoot your teammates"...also skills that are hard to develop in QP.

Nah. Nascar is the result of bad assaults and heavies that can't function by themselves. That's why they keep running after their lights who are trying to flank and harass. If the assaults and heavies just bloody hold down a position, it creates a natural hammer and anvil tactic.

But nooooooooo, they have to run after mechs more than twice their speed and cry after that.

[GuardDogg]

Foxwalker, on 24 June 2019 - 09:34 AM, said:

Lemmings. The real question is why do Assaults and Heavy mechs follow lights and fast mediums trying to flank.
Flanking is their job, so they are going to do what appears to be Nascar. It becomes Nascar when the slower mechs follow them.

Agree. why do other mechs follow lights. Lights are to scout, get info, and then maybe return to help in combat. Although if an assault mech(s) is not with the lights, a light pilot will freak out, "why isn't the assaults here yet?", or "Why is the assault still over there moving so slow!!?". "The Assaults suppose to be leading the charge!"

Edited by GuardDogg, 30 June 2019 - 06:53 PM.

[Prototelis]

lol

[Wil McCullough]

GuardDogg, on 30 June 2019 - 06:50 PM, said:

Agree. why do other mechs follow lights. Lights are to scout, get info, and then maybe return to help in combat. Although if an assault mech(s) is not with the lights, a light pilot will freak out, "why isn't the assaults here yet?", or "Why is the assault still over there moving so slow!!?". "The Assaults suppose to be leading the charge!"

No. This is mwo. Lights are there to be the paper to the enemy assaults' stone. Taking enemy mechs off the field is better than scouting and returning. They're most effective at tying up heavier enemy assets. If lights are forced to come back, it means their assaults and heavies are getting out-traded or even straight up getting crushed by a significantly lighter force. Which means it's the opponents' match to lose. As long as they don't do anything stupid, winning is practically a guarantee.

You seldom see good assault players moaning that nascar ruins them solely because of this reason. They're good enough to hold off a lighter force almost all of the time. Nascar is an inconvenience not a threat. The ones that keep crying about nascar are the assault pilots who to be blunt, suck. Check out their stats and it's always the same sub 1.0 wlr/kdr story. It's also made worse because these bad pilots keep trying to run after their light mechs and leaving their asses to the enemy.

[Willard Phule]

GuardDogg, on 30 June 2019 - 06:50 PM, said:

Agree. why do other mechs follow lights. Lights are to scout, get info, and then maybe return to help in combat. Although if an assault mech(s) is not with the lights, a light pilot will freak out, "why isn't the assaults here yet?", or "Why is the assault still over there moving so slow!!?". "The Assaults suppose to be leading the charge!"

Funny thing about lights. They're either out in front, way beyond support range or they're getting tangled in your feet so you can't move. Nothing is better than not being able to get out of the line of fire because a Commando is humping your leg. And they wonder why we turn and take off one of their legs to get out of the way.

[Xiphias]

Willard Phule, on 02 July 2019 - 05:02 AM, said:

Funny thing about lights. They're either out in front, way beyond support range or they're getting tangled in your feet so you can't move. Nothing is better than not being able to get out of the line of fire because a Commando is humping your leg. And they wonder why we turn and take off one of their legs to get out of the way.

Lights: With team
Team: Why aren't you scouting/capping?

Lights: Scouting/capping/flanking
Team: Why aren't you defending the assaults?

Lights: Defending the team
Team: Why are you in my way?

Team: Legs friendly light mech
Team: Why did we lose on caps? Lights weren't doing their job.

[JediPanther]

Xiphias, on 02 July 2019 - 05:25 AM, said:

Lights: With team
Team: Why aren't you scouting/capping?

Lights: Scouting/capping/flanking
Team: Why aren't you defending the assaults?

Lights: Defending the team
Team: Why are you in my way?

Team: Legs friendly light mech
Team: Why did we lose on caps? Lights weren't doing their job.

Spot on. An example from last night:Polar highlands skirmish mode. I'm in the cou-ba. It's a clan mech hence very slow 81 kph. I've built it configured with the cou-h head for ecm, the ams pod, and a few lasers. I'm getting yelled at by two voip wana-be assault commanders.

avoipcom 1: Go scout you little @#$@!

avoipcom2: Cover us! Out other light is running away ***********! (spider 5d ecm is activily scouting)

me in tchat: you want me to scout in an 81 kph mech?

Meanwhile as this happens the team lumbers to the fighting grid area of h 8. The spider reports enemy fire line and one of our heavys gets a shower of ppc and guass poking out of the trench with random missile fire. I go off to cover the heavy. The two great commanders try giving orders contradicting and countering each others calls to do some thing.

The team sits on its butt in a trench. Our lone heroic spider does the most of any one actively trying to get and hold locks,com wheel spotting and even putting up a uav. The team pokes and prods over the trench taking sniper fire while i crawl about trying to cover the ones getting missiled and randomly lasering an enemy scout trying to flank. Calls of its location go ignored.

The enemy wises up and begins an assault. The team dies with only the spider have done much of anything useful as the commanders berate each other,the lights and rest of team. I say screw it and start playing a stealth raven with ppcs.

[General Solo]

Douglas grizzly, on 24 June 2019 - 09:19 AM, said:

.........................why on earth do people nascar in qp when its the absolute worst thing to do? ...........................

If it was the last thing to do it wouldn't be such a hot topic on the forum, in game chat and in game viop.
It must have its merits.
Maybe when your have more experience (according to Jarls) you will understand. After 50K games I tend to like it.

Their are far worse absolute worse things that players do in QP that assist in them losing such as:

1) Using NASCAR or some other excuse to deny responsibility for their failures in varied areas of the game
2) Splitting up to the four winds
3) Ditching your team mates on a firing line cause you heard gun fire
4) Not shooting the same target, coz u need a call, lol, cant you see that enemy mech being hit, maybe add your fire too
5) Not been careful with your aim
6) Not being flexible coz someone said PUSH, TAKE TOP despite the fact in this particular game instance its failing terribly. Switch to play B mang, nascar maybe?
7) Not watching the mini map thus being situational unaware, thus falling behind and then blaming nascar

I could go on.

I love nascar cause lots of people have stiks up their but about it and refuse to get good at it.
So it makes it easy for people who have accepted that its part of the game and have noticed its features, whens it good and when not so to play against those who refuse to adapt to it.

Its not like a weapon or mech that can be nerfed?
Nascar can only be nerfed by counter tactic/stratergies devised by players.
So if you dont like nascar do something about it, just not on the forums, unless asking for help/advice about countering NASCAR.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 02 July 2019 - 07:16 AM.

[General Solo]

Xiphias, on 02 July 2019 - 05:25 AM, said:

Lights: With team
Team: Why aren't you scouting/capping?

Lights: Scouting/capping/flanking
Team: Why aren't you defending the assaults?

Lights: Defending the team
Team: Why are you in my way?

Team: Legs friendly light mech
Team: Why did we lose on caps? Lights weren't doing their job.

And the rest of my team ,the non lights couldn't kill the enemy non lights before caps became an issue