84 replies to this topic

[That Guy]

This is a relatively simple, but multifaceted request.

I wish to see in MWO:

-No kill messages. (no "mech 1 has destroyed m3k 2" broadcast like every other action game)

-No Score board accessible in mission (No push tab to see who is in the mission and their respective scores)

-Limit opposing teams knowledge of each other in and before the mission starts (In mission briefings, you cant see who is on the enemy team or what they have, or even how many there are)


The primary purpose of such exclusions is to limit player information to increase tension and immersion. It will force players to work together more and to pay closer attention to their surroundings. It will be up to the players to relay this information (enemy CAT down!, Im heavily damaged, falling back, objective 2 under attack, send backup! etc). plus the lack of a score board will make people focus more on the mission at hand rather than their personal score. (of course all your statistics and such will be available in the mission debrief). In reality (even a future space reality with giant robots) we wont have automated kill messages and score boards. We would love to know who and what we are fighting, but that info is usually hard to get and rarely available (these sort of intel limitations could be overcome in some cases by a player avatar skill or certain mission types etc)

point 2 and 3 will help in a wish of mine of having more advanced and diverse (possibly asymmetric) mission types.

for example, lets say a raid mission. the OPFOR team has a full company of mechs (12) and has to defend 5 facilities, but the attacking team only has a lance of mechs (4), but they only have an objective of 1 facility. with things like kill messages and score boards the tension of the mission will be severely undercut because both sides suddenly have an unrealistic, and tension breaking amount of information about each other.

[Hayden]

That Guy, on 27 December 2011 - 04:17 PM, said:

This is a relatively simple, but multifaceted request.

I wish to see in MWO:

-No kill messages. (no "mech 1 has destroyed m3k 2" broadcast like every other action game)

-No Score board accessible in mission (No push tab to see who is in the mission and their respective scores)

-Limit opposing teams knowledge of each other in and before the mission starts (In mission briefings, you cant see who is on the enemy team or what they have, or even how many there are)


The primary purpose of such exclusions is to limit player information to increase tension and immersion. It will force players to work together more and to pay closer attention to their surroundings. It will be up to the players to relay this information (enemy CAT down!, Im heavily damaged, falling back, objective 2 under attack, send backup! etc). plus the lack of a score board will make people focus more on the mission at hand rather than their personal score. (of course all your statistics and such will be available in the mission debrief). In reality (even a future space reality with giant robots) we wont have automated kill messages and score boards. We would love to know who and what we are fighting, but that info is usually hard to get and rarely available (these sort of intel limitations could be overcome in some cases by a player avatar skill or certain mission types etc)

point 2 and 3 will help in a wish of mine of having more advanced and diverse (possibly asymmetric) mission types.

for example, lets say a raid mission. the OPFOR team has a full company of mechs (12) and has to defend 5 facilities, but the attacking team only has a lance of mechs (4), but they only have an objective of 1 facility. with things like kill messages and score boards the tension of the mission will be severely undercut because both sides suddenly have an unrealistic, and tension breaking amount of information about each other.

OP makes some very good points, hopefully someone is watching.

(Ed: even if he is a Davion)

Edited by Hayden, 27 December 2011 - 04:39 PM.

[CeeKay Boques]

The sim guy in me nods sagely saying "Yes, only by Team speak should this information be relayed."

The video game team player in me remembers cheering over comms when a kill happens, or watching the scoreboard in matches based on kills. Or watching someones name really start scrolling on a rampage. There's something special about seeing your name in lights.

Bob killed you.

Not "You were killed 3 times in that battle 20 minutes ago." No, BOB killed you. I've got it out for Bob now....

[Hayden]

Technoviking, on 27 December 2011 - 04:44 PM, said:

The sim guy in me nods sagely saying "Yes, only by Team speak should this information be relayed."

The video game team player in me remembers cheering over comms when a kill happens, or watching the scoreboard in matches based on kills. Or watching someones name really start scrolling on a rampage. There's something special about seeing your name in lights.

Bob killed you.

Not "You were killed 3 times in that battle 20 minutes ago." No, BOB killed you. I've got it out for Bob now....

Instead we could have "Jeeze, that black Hunchback just took out Larry's Marauder (hint, devs)! Watch out for him!"

[That Guy]

Technoviking, on 27 December 2011 - 04:44 PM, said:

The video game team player in me remembers cheering over comms when a kill happens, or watching the scoreboard in matches based on kills. Or watching someones name really start scrolling on a rampage. There's something special about seeing your name in lights.

Bob killed you.

Not "You were killed 3 times in that battle 20 minutes ago." No, BOB killed you. I've got it out for Bob now....

Its that kinda of meta game information that I would like to avoid
Plus you can always have your name in lights after the match

[MitchellTyner]

I for one completely agree, as a pilot that likes light mechs and scout mechs this would actually give us a role on the battlefield other than cannon fodder for the larger pay to win mechs.

enough said.

Op + 9000!

[Skwisgaar Skwigelf]

I would like to see after action reports like "bob destroyed 3 mechs including hunchback, locust and Hermes", but I agree about not seeing name during or after match

[verybad]

This should just be an option IMO. I don't really care about scoreboards, but it might be useful knowing how much time you need to capture on a capturepoint (or however they have it set up for winning)

If you don't like it, then don't look at it is my view on it.Why prevent others that DO want to see the scoreboard?

[That Guy]

because a score board conveys a large amount of useful intelligence data that you as a player dont have direct access too. you know who is doing well, who may be hurt, who may be defending, and most importantly, you know how many targets there are, and how many are left. these pieces of data are especially useful in games that have no respawn.

It is possible for an undermanned team to prevail over a full team if the full team is unaware of this fact. being out numbered isnt just about the numbers, its also psychological. the superior team knows they have a driect advantage, wile the smaller team knows they are at a distinct disadvantage. if you remove the quickest too to determine relative strength, the score window, then that makes having scouts and recon a useful thing

a score board does not fit into the context of a military operation. initially in the death match only game modes, yeah, it dosnt matter too much, but when objective based game modes are implemented into the game, the score board needs to go, or better yet, never been there.

[verybad]

The fact of the matter is that it IS a game however. The level of intelligence provided through a scoreboard is minimal, people are going to try to win no matter what.

I'm not convinced of the psychological implicatiosn of a scoreboard being very influential on the ultimate outcome of that game.

People are either gonna win or lose, if they don't want to look at the scoreboards, they don't need to, there are stat freaks out there that love that kind of stuff, and this reduces their fun.

[That Guy]

all of warfare is about deception, but its very hard to deceive your opponent strategically if he has arbitrary up to date info on your relative strength. info he did not earn with scouts, drones or what ever. the fact remains, a score board has no place in a "serious" mission or situation.

i would rather ruin a stat freaks "fun" than ruin my tactical plan. besides after the mission is over, then you get all your stats. you can even take a picture

what i am trying to say, certain types of games thrive on the competitive nature of the combat, and accumulating stats (COD, BF3 etc), but in a more serious objective based environment (for example ArmA2, WWII;online) a score board is unnecessary, or even detracts from the overall experience because it gives the opposing team more knowledge then they should rightfully have.

also, if the devs choose to not add kill messages and score boards and there are dozen and dozens of whiny rage forum posts about their absence, then i guess i was wrong and have to eat my hat

Edited by That Guy, 27 December 2011 - 08:57 PM.

[Dihm]

I say go with the OPs idea, and give out an after action report like they did at Virtual World.

I'll have to scan and post one of mine, if they haven't disintegrated due to age.

[verybad]

That Guy, on 27 December 2011 - 08:30 PM, said:

all of warfare is about deception, but its very hard to deceive your opponent strategically if he has arbitrary up to date info on your relative strength. info he did not earn with scouts, drones or what ever. the fact remains, a score board has no place in a "serious" mission or situation. i would rather ruin a stat freaks "fun" than ruin my tactical plan. besides after the mission is over, then you get all your stats. you can even take a picture what i am trying to say, certain types of games thrive on the competitive nature of the combat, and accumulating stats (COD, BF3 etc), but in a more serious objective based environment (for example ArmA2, WWII;online) a score board is unnecessary, or even detracts from the overall experience because it gives the opposing team more knowledge then they should rightfully have. also, if the devs choose to not add kill messages and score boards and there are dozen and dozens of whiny rage forum posts about their absence, then i guess i was wrong and have to eat my hat

If a score board is going to ruin your tactical plan...

You're proceding under the assumption that it's single life it seems. I think it will be multiple life games similiar to most other FTS games. While I'll be the first to agree that single life games can be a LOT of fun as there is more tension, they unfortunately don't seem to build up large playing groups either.

While I see your agreement, and agree with a lot of it, I just don't agree with this basis, that seeing the scoreboard is displaying the current strength of the enemy, which would rely on a single life type of game.

[Sirisian]

I don't quite follow your reasoning. I'd rather people fear certain pilots that are skilled. Next your going to say you don't want kill streak messages. When I play an online match I like to see who I'm facing instead of pretending they're AI. Regarding a score board I think it'll depend on the game mode. For most of them yes I want to see who is in first by pressing tab. It does not detract from the immersiveness for me and it's an optional thing to look at.

[Dlardrageth]

That would hopefully also include something like having no stupid killcam of sorts. Extremely annoying feature, especially if it cannot be turned off.

[verybad]

Dlardrageth, on 27 December 2011 - 10:19 PM, said:

That would hopefully also include something like having no stupid killcam of sorts. Extremely annoying feature, especially if it cannot be turned off.

We can agree on this.

[Tilley]

I strongly like the OP's idea of limiting the scoreboard.

[Volume]

I will happily +1 this as a "hardcore" option on "private servers" in game modes with no respawn.

It would really add a new dynamic to the gameplay, and it would be very, very awesome with all the electronic warfare stuff going on.

Maybe later on they can use it to balance the clans (ie: you know what they have due to batchall)

It would be very cool to not have a text chat box after death, or radio after death - think of playing and perhaps you just "lose contact" with an ally or the comm cuts out if they're in the middle of relaying a message...You don't know what took them out, if they just went out of range, what their position is, anything...Do you round the corner of this building? Will an Atlas be waiting on the other side? Is it safe? It would certainly give people a reason to err on the side of caution.

I would really be into it, but I get the feeling that most people would not enjoy it to the level that you or I would. I would hope they add things like this in for the people who want it, but don't force people who don't want it to deal with it.

[Mchawkeye]

I like the idea of almost zero in game information...it should be handled though in game comms and team communication.
I think players should get a mission briefing, perhaps with profiles of the enemy, with images of their mechs, standard load outs and current stats. though obviously the load outs (even the mech) could change if it hasn't been seen on the battlefield before, which gives saving/buying a mech a not using it until such-and-such a point a tactical advantage. It also makes skins and decorating your mech more important.
it would all in game mechwarriors to ID who is who, without the need for odd HUD information; that should tell you what type it is and the standard IFF.

That said, I am now imagining a lance with all the same mechs, with all the same camo just to confuse the enemy.

[MitchellTyner]

well I can see it now. COD in MWO ... "Well lets check out the score board now, hmmm 8v6 ... looks like we are in a tight spot (does affect moral going into a game, and don't say it doesn't) ... well looks like they are all piloting heavy / assault mechs.... okay then " (Lance mate) "Hey fox, we can see they are all piloting huge mechs, looks like your scout mech has no place in MWO. Why not jump into an assault class mech with everyone else?"

Get my drift? guess not.