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Live Fire Test Results Srm6 Vs S-Srm6 @269M Vs Commando


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#81 Prototelis

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:20 AM

^You are right. This the true 3d Chess right here.

#82 Feral Clown

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 05:31 PM

View PostJohn McClintock, on 16 July 2019 - 07:38 AM, said:

Adapt and overcome. Tactics change. Sounds like you need to reevaluate your "meta".


Umm.... sounds like you need to use that whole adapt and overcome thing yourself. Perhaps you should reevaluate your own 'meta' and live longer, put out more damage, kill more things and win more games.

Just to rub in the point currently my win/loss ratio for my primary faction acct on the CW leaderboards is 12.15. That's with 1300 odd games played. Since you are a maf's expert sit on that a while and please tell me again how I must be doing it wrong.

Realise I am only responding because it's kinda humourous and I very much doubt you really get any of what's going on.

#83 John McClintock

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 08:25 PM

Pretty sure what is going on is that the "core" players (microscopic subset of overall players) who play a minor subset of the game (CW or FP) are upset that the "potatards" are able to make hits using a weapon system that the hard cores think is trash. The "worst part" is that it makes the potatards "look good" to lay people who watch streaming. Lay people then don't recognize the true effort it takes to get high scores with lasers or srms.

Add to that the end wave of FP has become overrun with lights, and this trend is being "exploited unfairly" Posted Image by some people bringing Streaks to the last wave.

Did I get pretty close?

But wait, there's more....

In order to try and not be forced to change tactics, the hard cores are demanding that a certain weapon systems be "nerfed gently" so that they don't need to change "THE" tactics that were so thoroughly hashed out.

Did I miss anything?Posted Image

#84 Feral Clown

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 08:36 PM

View PostJohn McClintock, on 16 July 2019 - 08:25 PM, said:

Pretty sure what is going on is that the "core" players (microscopic subset of overall players) who play a minor subset of the game (CW or FP) are upset that the "potatards" are able to make hits using a weapon system that the hard cores think is trash. The "worst part" is that it makes the potatards "look good" to lay people who watch streaming. Lay people then don't recognize the true effort it takes to get high scores with lasers or srms.

Add to that the end wave of FP has become overrun with lights, and this trend is being "exploited unfairly" Posted Image by some people bringing Streaks to the last wave.

Did I get pretty close?

But wait, there's more....

In order to try and not be forced to change tactics, the hard cores are demanding that a certain weapon systems be "nerfed gently" so that they don't need to change "THE" tactics that were so thoroughly hashed out.

Did I miss anything?Posted Image


You missed a lot because you have zero clue what you are talking about.

Again, why don't you die less, kill more, win more, and do more damage?

Doubt you can really answer that because you have no idea what's going on, which is probably why you skipped over answering why you are failing so hard but somehow think you know what in the game is balanced or not.

Edited by Feral Clown, 16 July 2019 - 08:37 PM.


#85 YueFei

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 09:07 PM

View PostJohn McClintock, on 16 July 2019 - 08:25 PM, said:

Pretty sure what is going on is that the "core" players (microscopic subset of overall players) who play a minor subset of the game (CW or FP) are upset that the "potatards" are able to make hits using a weapon system that the hard cores think is trash. The "worst part" is that it makes the potatards "look good" to lay people who watch streaming. Lay people then don't recognize the true effort it takes to get high scores with lasers or srms.

Add to that the end wave of FP has become overrun with lights, and this trend is being "exploited unfairly" Posted Image by some people bringing Streaks to the last wave.

Did I get pretty close?

But wait, there's more....

In order to try and not be forced to change tactics, the hard cores are demanding that a certain weapon systems be "nerfed gently" so that they don't need to change "THE" tactics that were so thoroughly hashed out.

Did I miss anything?Posted Image


No, the top players smash others no matter what.

Weaker players often have the bizarre idea that top players complain about stuff because those top players are "scared" of losing to something. That makes no sense. Top players will always quickly identify what works best and smash others with it. The results speak for themselves, and you need merely look at their stats.

If something is overpowered, you can bet all your C-bills that the top players are using it already, and smashing everyone else with it.... and so when the top players say "hey, maybe this needs nerfed", they're actually calling for nerfs on something they are already using. So it has nothing to do with being "scared" of the weapon in question.

If something is underpowered, top players would say "hey, maybe this needs buffed", and if they're calling for a bad weapon system to be buffed, it darn well isn't because they're scared of it.

And if something is just lame, top players will just say "hey, this weapon system is lame, and its mechanics should be changed". It ain't because they're scared of it, but rather it's just a weapon system with uninteresting mechanics, low skill ceiling, yadda yadda yadda.

And I say all this as one of those "weaker players". I may suck at this game, but at least I have enough wisdom to recognize that, and enough humility to learn from far better players.

#86 Prototelis

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 09:18 PM

View PostJohn McClintock, on 16 July 2019 - 08:25 PM, said:


Did I miss anything?Posted Image


You literally missed everything.

3d chess

#87 Bowelhacker

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 09:55 PM

View PostPrototelis, on 16 July 2019 - 09:18 PM, said:

You literally missed everything.

3d chess


Should have used streak comments.

#88 Feral Clown

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Posted 16 July 2019 - 10:25 PM

View PostYueFei, on 16 July 2019 - 09:07 PM, said:


No, the top players smash others no matter what.

Weaker players often have the bizarre idea that top players complain about stuff because those top players are "scared" of losing to something. That makes no sense. Top players will always quickly identify what works best and smash others with it. The results speak for themselves, and you need merely look at their stats.

If something is overpowered, you can bet all your C-bills that the top players are using it already, and smashing everyone else with it.... and so when the top players say "hey, maybe this needs nerfed", they're actually calling for nerfs on something they are already using. So it has nothing to do with being "scared" of the weapon in question.

If something is underpowered, top players would say "hey, maybe this needs buffed", and if they're calling for a bad weapon system to be buffed, it darn well isn't because they're scared of it.

And if something is just lame, top players will just say "hey, this weapon system is lame, and its mechanics should be changed". It ain't because they're scared of it, but rather it's just a weapon system with uninteresting mechanics, low skill ceiling, yadda yadda yadda.

And I say all this as one of those "weaker players". I may suck at this game, but at least I have enough wisdom to recognize that, and enough humility to learn from far better players.


This was the best thing I read on these here forums in months. It mirrors my exact sentiment and approach to the game.

The author doesn't understand my opinion is coming from a six streak four Bushwacker P1 user, and not an angry Piranha pilot. One who also plays the game with guys like Nightbird, Reckless, Fusion/Fission, Ash, McGoat, Serial Number, Vorteex.........

Being curious I looked up my Streakwacker's stats, 1.94 kdr, with a 278 average damage per match . That's a very low avg. damage for that kdr that to me says a couple of things. First being it's damage is low because of it's role hunting lights which have less hit points to begin with. Second despite the spread nature, it is very efficient/effective at killing lights. In comparison, other mechs I have at or around the 2.00 kdr mark all average between 500-700 damage using lasers, guass, and heavy ppc's.

My opinion comes not only from what I hear people saying, but from actually using it with results that I'd say are pretty stellar for something so easy to use.

#89 Marquis De Lafayette

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 09:35 AM

John....it’s fine to ask questions. But if you are a newer player it would help you more to listen more and give your opinion less. Some very good players here have been actually pretty polite in challenging some of the things you have said.

This isn’t some vets don’t want to adapt situation....as others have said, many FW tactics just have been “worked out” (what generally works is kept and what doesn’t has been discarded) a long time ago. New techs, mechs, modes and maps will cause new tactics to evolve and existing tactics to change....but for example: the streak-clops at the end is not some new idea. It’s just an idea that in most cases will lead to more failure than success. Sure it might work in niche situations....but as awesome as it might feel in those limited situations, it has more overall drawbacks than advantages and will help mint more losses than wins. One reason why people drop heaviest to lightest is that wins and losses are more often snowballs than not. So, if you don’t drop enough weight early, you are more likely to get behind (in kills) earlier in the match. The ideal is win wave 1 and to have your damaged mechs from wave 1 beat up/or kill the other teams wave 2 mechs. By the time you get the end of the match you are very likely to have the winnng teams wave 2-3 mechs fighting the losing teams wave 4 mechs. If you save that kind of weight till the end, you are more likely to contribute to your team getting behind early and having the snowball go against you....plus if you are behind you will be drop that streak-clops against wave 2-3 hellbringers, etc (stuff that streaks are really bad against) and not even see those juicy lights.....because the other team crushed you and never needed to drop them. I hope that makes sense to you.

#90 Kubernetes

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 12:54 PM

View PostJohn McClintock, on 16 July 2019 - 08:25 PM, said:

Pretty sure what is going on is that the "core" players (microscopic subset of overall players) who play a minor subset of the game (CW or FP) are upset that the "potatards" are able to make hits using a weapon system that the hard cores think is trash. The "worst part" is that it makes the potatards "look good" to lay people who watch streaming. Lay people then don't recognize the true effort it takes to get high scores with lasers or srms.


How do you read this many pages and get literally nothing correct? Streaks don't make potatoes look good. If they did, you'd actually have something to brag about.

Quote

Add to that the end wave of FP has become overrun with lights, and this trend is being "exploited unfairly" Posted Image by some people bringing Streaks to the last wave.

Did I get pretty close?


Nope. People bring streaks in the last wave if they can. The reason the last wave has a lot of lights is that people prefer to front-load their tonnage. Saving a Streak Cyclops for last means you've got to get that tonnage from somewhere. Which means in the first and second waves you're facing enemy 90-tonners in heavies. Which means you get crushed, and then you're dropping your Cyclops against the enemy's 2nd or 3rd wave, where it's completely useless. Didn't think about that, did you? Yeah, you've been playing since February and you're a super master FP strategist.

Quote

But wait, there's more....

In order to try and not be forced to change tactics, the hard cores are demanding that a certain weapon systems be "nerfed gently" so that they don't need to change "THE" tactics that were so thoroughly hashed out.

Did I miss anything?Posted Image


Nobody is demanding nerfs to streaks. [edit -- well, okay, some people are. Personally I think IS streaks need a buff] It's really amazing; you really think that you're onto something. FFS, play some more games before opening your mouth.

Edited by Kubernetes, 17 July 2019 - 02:25 PM.


#91 John McClintock

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 04:05 PM

View PostKubernetes, on 17 July 2019 - 12:54 PM, said:


How do you read this many pages and get literally nothing correct? Streaks don't make potatoes look good. If they did, you'd actually have something to brag about.



Nope. People bring streaks in the last wave if they can. The reason the last wave has a lot of lights is that people prefer to front-load their tonnage. Saving a Streak Cyclops for last means you've got to get that tonnage from somewhere. Which means in the first and second waves you're facing enemy 90-tonners in heavies. Which means you get crushed, and then you're dropping your Cyclops against the enemy's 2nd or 3rd wave, where it's completely useless. Didn't think about that, did you? Yeah, you've been playing since February and you're a super master FP strategist.



Nobody is demanding nerfs to streaks. [edit -- well, okay, some people are. Personally I think IS streaks need a buff] It's really amazing; you really think that you're onto something. FFS, play some more games before opening your mouth.



LOL

Well, you see, some people ARE asking them to be nerfed.

My second point is that a lot of the argument against my position is simply "I've been playing longer than you"

Really?

That's how they defend their opinion?

My whole point is "I Think" they are fine where they are at. I primarily pilot lights, and I don't have a problem with where they are at. Sure it's bad luck to run into a Streak Boat in a flea 17, but on the flip side, how about a Fafnir vs a Piranha?

If the best they have to counter that is "you don't know anything cause you are a newb" then I don't see much reason to respect their opinion.

Which is all it is.

"We already hashed out the tactics and know what works" is also a simile for "We are using old and stagnant tactics, and are to lazy to try and adapt to new tactics."

I really don't care what anybody thinks of me or my opinion, frankly, I never asked for permission to give it. And that's all it is, my opinion. IT happens to differ from some other people, who are quite ready to use red herring tactics to try and nullify my argument, which tells me everything I need to know about the validity of their argument.

You don't win wars by maintaining the same tactics. You win by adapting and innovating.

Nothing I've said here about the opposing opinion is something I made up out of thin air, I simply quoted what other people have been saying in one of the numerous Streak threads currently popping up.

Read them for yourself before you accuse me of making stuff up.

Edited by John McClintock, 17 July 2019 - 04:07 PM.


#92 John McClintock

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 04:16 PM

View PostMarquis De Lafayette, on 17 July 2019 - 09:35 AM, said:

John....it’s fine to ask questions. But if you are a newer player it would help you more to listen more and give your opinion less. Some very good players here have been actually pretty polite in challenging some of the things you have said.

This isn’t some vets don’t want to adapt situation....as others have said, many FW tactics just have been “worked out” (what generally works is kept and what doesn’t has been discarded) a long time ago. New techs, mechs, modes and maps will cause new tactics to evolve and existing tactics to change....but for example: the streak-clops at the end is not some new idea. It’s just an idea that in most cases will lead to more failure than success. Sure it might work in niche situations....but as awesome as it might feel in those limited situations, it has more overall drawbacks than advantages and will help mint more losses than wins. One reason why people drop heaviest to lightest is that wins and losses are more often snowballs than not. So, if you don’t drop enough weight early, you are more likely to get behind (in kills) earlier in the match. The ideal is win wave 1 and to have your damaged mechs from wave 1 beat up/or kill the other teams wave 2 mechs. By the time you get the end of the match you are very likely to have the winnng teams wave 2-3 mechs fighting the losing teams wave 4 mechs. If you save that kind of weight till the end, you are more likely to contribute to your team getting behind early and having the snowball go against you....plus if you are behind you will be drop that streak-clops against wave 2-3 hellbringers, etc (stuff that streaks are really bad against) and not even see those juicy lights.....because the other team crushed you and never needed to drop them. I hope that makes sense to you.

I've played a few games of FP, I noted the tactics, and by the second game I was dropping with my heaviest mech first and tapering down. It's a good tactic, and I see the rational.

Doesn't mean it always has to be that way.

Anybody want's to libel my playing ability should meet me for a duel first. Put up or shut up. Then you can brag about how you thrashed a newb... unless you are .... chicken?

#93 John McClintock

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 04:31 PM

I'm in game and accepting invites for duels....

#94 LT. HARDCASE

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 06:39 PM

Oh god here we go. It's degenerated to this.

#95 Feral Clown

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 08:44 PM

View PostJohn McClintock, on 17 July 2019 - 04:05 PM, said:


That's how they defend their opinion?

My whole point is "I Think" they are fine where they are at. I primarily pilot lights, and I don't have a problem with where they are at. Sure it's bad luck to run into a Streak Boat in a flea 17, but on the flip side, how about a Fafnir vs a Piranha?

If the best they have to counter that is "you don't know anything cause you are a newb" then I don't see much reason to respect their opinion.

Which is all it is.

"We already hashed out the tactics and know what works" is also a simile for "We are using old and stagnant tactics, and are to lazy to try and adapt to new tactics."

I really don't care what anybody thinks of me or my opinion, frankly, I never asked for permission to give it. And that's all it is, my opinion. IT happens to differ from some other people, who are quite ready to use red herring tactics to try and nullify my argument, which tells me everything I need to know about the validity of their argument.

You don't win wars by maintaining the same tactics. You win by adapting and innovating.

Nothing I've said here about the opposing opinion is something I made up out of thin air, I simply quoted what other people have been saying in one of the numerous Streak threads currently popping up.



You don't think streaks need to be nerfed based on very little experience, no success, a lack of understanding/ability to digest what is being discussed.

You also have substituted logical answers, approaches, questioning with rhetoric such as 'adapt and overcome'. It's nonsense, which is why you can't really answer 'why don't you just die less, kill more, and do more damage'.

If you were a newb that possessed solid reasoning skills and had the ability to challenge things with logic or something else of merit people might take you seriously. However when your answer to things you don't know anything about is a catch phrase from a self help program, you're going to be dismissed offhandedly.

Your attitude also speaks volumes. It tells me you have little interest in learning and will just stumble along trying to figure things out on your own. Also you seem to have little interest in making friends along the way. Like if you were interested in CW, that Kubernetes dude was one of the top end CW players for years (no this isn't buddies ganging up, he and I don't really talk or know each other). As well I am a member of one of the most successful units to play the mode and we've dominated it for years now. I have no fear of you challenging my meta and knowledge and putting a dent in my wlr any time soon so you can get that out of your head. But by all means if you feel like being farmed hard in CW while we're waiting to see if CSPS or ISMO have anything going by all means queue up.

Edited by Feral Clown, 21 July 2019 - 01:48 AM.


#96 Marquis De Lafayette

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Posted 17 July 2019 - 09:17 PM

View PostJohn McClintock, on 17 July 2019 - 04:16 PM, said:

I've played a few games of FP, I noted the tactics, and by the second game I was dropping with my heaviest mech first and tapering down. It's a good tactic, and I see the rational.

Doesn't mean it always has to be that way.

Anybody want's to libel my playing ability should meet me for a duel first. Put up or shut up. Then you can brag about how you thrashed a newb... unless you are .... chicken?


Well....people actually tried to help you here, but I guess you are just going to have to learn things the hard way when you drop in FW matches. Many other pilots learned the same way, so it’s a well worn path. Just remember when your 4th wave 90 ton assault gets Insta-killed (by waiting enemy mechs) the moment it’s feet hit the ground that part of the reason that happened is that you didn’t drop enough weight early in an effort to stop the snowball from rolling downhill against your team. In that moment you can tell yourself “overcome and adapt” and maybe you can better see why you got pretty similar advice from a whole lot of experienced FW players.

Edited by Marquis De Lafayette, 18 July 2019 - 04:59 AM.


#97 Foxwalker

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 08:54 AM

Sorry about how salty the responses you are getting John. I for one, note that I have friends that have been playing since day 1 and are still in tier 3 or 4. Many tout how easy Streaks are or same with any lock on weapon. Looking at overall stats though, their accuracy over time is only slightly better than direct fire weapons for Steaks and much, much worse for LRMs.

No Streaks do not hit 100% of the time. No weapon is actually easy mode and all have pros and cons. Most players quickly learn, positioning and team play works better, some never do. From my view working together works better than being a good shot. Since 1 on 1 dueling is not one of the game modes, it would not prove much wining or loosing it.

#98 BackShot

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 10:23 AM

and now he is challenging in duels, that troll is epic.

#99 LordNothing

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Posted 18 July 2019 - 04:31 PM

View PostJohn McClintock, on 11 July 2019 - 06:17 PM, said:

I showed you mine...


i think accuracy numbers count any fraction of a salvo a hit. if one of six missiles hit (or one out of fourty), it counts. wing a mech with a single lbx pellet, it counts. have a light run through your heavy laser burn at the edge of your max range, it counts. it renders a lot of stats misleading. only place it really matters is single projectile weapons like ppcs and single shot autocannons and even then it doesn't tell you how effective those weapons are when they do count as hits. a second percentage that shows what your average damage fraction of the total possible output of the weapons would help a lot.

Edited by LordNothing, 18 July 2019 - 04:35 PM.






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