1380 replies to this topic

[Eurystheus]

None of this Epic vs Steam stuff bothers me. I'm here for Mechwarrior, and that's pretty much it. I use Steam to launch MWO and CoD MW3 and that's it. I really don't understand all the features it has, or care.

But I get it that some people do care. I worked for a large I/T company for 25 years and I learned a few things that might be helpful to PGI.

The first, I was in a large meeting, couple of thousand employees, when an Exec got up to talk about customers. He said, "I love customers! Customers have all the money!" If your customers have the money, and you want their money, you have to cater to them. Again, I don't care about Steam vs Epic, but if enough customers do then PGI needs to account for that.

The second thing I learned is that nothing is set in concrete until either the official announcement date or first customer ship. We'd share roadmaps with customers, give them product development details under NDA, that kind of thing. But we always stressed that everything we said was subject to change until the official announcement. PGI can take their pick, either official announcement or first customer delivery, but they should begin and end every presentation, every AMA, every FAQ with a statement that anything and everything is subject to change until (pick one) official announcement or first customer delivery.

[Sigmar Sich]

Eurystheus, on 31 July 2019 - 01:45 PM, said:

The first, I was in a large meeting, couple of thousand employees, when an Exec got up to talk about customers. He said, "I love customers! Customers have all the money!" If your customers have the money, and you want their money, you have to cater to them. Again, I don't care about Steam vs Epic, but if enough customers do then PGI needs to account for that.

I think this is exactly what they are counting on - that EGS' potential new customers have more money, and are more willing to part with them, than oversalted remains of MWO playerbase. Plus if Epic throwing them a hefty bribe - more money to them.
Then there's no point catering to MWO community, simply because we're no longer considered as customers.

As for merit of this gamble - only time will tell.
That's assuming PGI have any long-term development plans, and they don't want to just cash out as soon as possible, and leave.
You can never be sure anymore. Nor should you have been.

[Prototelis]

Wishmast3r, on 31 July 2019 - 07:26 AM, said:

So it´s okay, cause everybody does it.

Do you just like, not know how to read without inserting your own interior monologue into other peoples posts? Stahp it.

[Jackal Noble]

Prototelis, on 31 July 2019 - 03:23 PM, said:

Do you just like, not know how to read without inserting your own interior monologue into other peoples posts? Stahp it.

Hey look at me! I'm Mr. Indifferent, it's super cool to have a casual air of indifference among others. Studies show that by acting indifferent in general conversation, one's IQ can appear 3-5 points higher.

I smoke cigarettes too.

[dr watson]

yeah you guys ****** up the one thing that ive been looking forward too, you have ruined congrats. will be looking forward to my refund.

[ingramli]

Got email that refund is in progress, so I have no more business with PGI and MW5 anymore. GL to those choose to keep pre-order, I may come back Dec 2020 if the game is really good (nah, i dont think so).

[Akillius]

Prototelis, on 31 July 2019 - 01:58 AM, said:

Yeah, good luck. You aren't getting anything. Everyone that wants one is getting a refund; there are no damages.

You're also misinterpreting why this isn't a bait and switch.

I'm not trying to troll, or play DA, or whatever. A Bait and Switch is a very specific concept.

Caught you glancing and completely not reading.
This is what you missed.

PGI IS A CANADIAN COMPANY
YOUR USA "Bait and Switch" LAWS DON'T APPLY.

Suggest you visit page 51 and actually read posting number 1004.
https://mwomercs.com...45#entry6281045

Edited by Akillius, 31 July 2019 - 04:17 PM.

[Prototelis]

Jackal Noble, on 31 July 2019 - 03:46 PM, said:

Hey look at me! I'm Mr. Indifferent, it's super cool to have a casual air of indifference among others. Studies show that by acting indifferent in general conversation, one's IQ can appear 3-5 points higher.

I smoke cigarettes too.

I don't have anything to be emotional about; why would I be anything other than indifferent?

What I proposed is true. No company gives a **** about anything other than money. That is how capitalism works.

Akillius, on 31 July 2019 - 04:12 PM, said:

Caught you glancing and completely not reading.
This is what you missed.

PGI IS A CANADIAN COMPANY
YOUR USA "Bait and Switch" LAWS DON'T APPLY.

Suggest you visit page 51 and actually read posting number 1004.
https://mwomercs.com...45#entry6281045

Uhm no, I read the entire page; This isn't a bait and switch.

See specifically sub-section 74.04

Note that a Bait and Switch is the same thing in the United States.

I don't think sub-section 74.01. You were not mislead about the ordinary price of goods.

You agreed to buy MW5.

If you would like to challenge the purchase agreement I would love to see it; I personally would not. I don't think its going to go anywhere.


Edit; Okay, I didn't see the other link there. I still don't think you'd get anything to stick there.

They're offering a full refund to everyone who wants it.

I'm pretty sure in your purchase agreement you agreed to buy MW5 and it probably covered a change in platform/the features of the platform. Either way, completely irrelevant because they're giving you a refund.

These people outlawyered HG; they're most likely legally clear. This however does not mean they are in the right; and that isn't what I wish to imply. Does that make sense?

Edited by Prototelis, 31 July 2019 - 04:46 PM.

[Akillius]

Prototelis, on 31 July 2019 - 03:06 AM, said:

Those threads only got moved to BT discussion.

At least one got deleted where I suggested a certain video was Russ's song+dance moves to the MW5 announcement..

DemonRaziel, on 31 July 2019 - 05:20 AM, said:

Quite possibly none.

But on the other hand, some provide superior products/services in the same field, and/or care about their goodwill enough not to do anti-consumer stuff or alienate their consumer base in some way.

There is one exception to that rule and the original name was something like Projek Kalypso, but was renamed since 1999.
No I won't post the real name, because I think that game now sucks, yet it still has millions of dollars every year carefully strained through the massive pocketbooks of its "upper management" who do nothing, except add more bugs, or do the opposite of whats good for replay-ability and long term player retention.

Usually when developers of a game does what you wrote about its no worries.
But when they do the opposite then just look at Galactic Junk League (buried), Dreadnought (dying/dead), StarWars Galaxies (before Sony dumbed up the avatars, messed with character's skills and the mass refunds that followed). etc.

[Akillius]

Prototelis, on 31 July 2019 - 04:28 PM, said:

I don't have anything to be emotional about; why would I be anything other than indifferent?

What I proposed is true. No company gives a **** about anything other than money. That is how capitalism works.

Uhm no, I read the entire page; This isn't a bait and switch.

See specifically sub-section 74.04

Note that a Bait and Switch is the same thing in the United States.

I don't think sub-section 74.01. You were not mislead about the ordinary price of goods.

You agreed to buy MW5.

If you would like to challenge the purchase agreement I would love to see it; I personally would not. I don't think its going to go anywhere.

I wrote: "it isn't bait and switch"
You wrote: "This isn't a bait and switch."

I wrote: "no money returned" (both Canadian laws are civil provisions)
Then you wrote: "You aren't getting anything"

So far, its still looking like a troll thread to me...


But one last reply to give everyone else some lols for falling for it one last time. (Shrugs!)

The definitions of Bait and Switch differ between between countries.
Under the aforementioned specific Canadian Civil Provisions there's no need to prove any damages as you will get absolutely nothing back and all legal fees are yours alone with no reimbursement irregardless of the court's findings.
And as such, reimbursement/refunds do not matter to the courts if or when, they are or might be offered.

But if still interest please review all 128 parts of the Federal act
Don't google and use any provincial act of similar name, although the BC laws would apply if filed by actual BC residents.

Suggested reading is PART VII.1 Deceptive Marketing Practices, Subsection 74.03(5)
https://laws-lois.ju.../eng/acts/C-34/

----------------

Since even the most upset MW5 pre-purchase owner/refunder would like to see some success and access to MWO and/or MW5 at some point perhaps a year or so later.
So as I've previously wrote: any such legal endeavor is entirely pointless as it serves absolutely no purpose.

Edited by Akillius, 31 July 2019 - 05:23 PM.

[Prototelis]

I'm not reading all of that.

I still don't think theres any possible reason to file a suit; although damages may not be required by canadian law a court is not going to find a compelling reason not to dismiss without any.

We're talking about the people who out-lawyered HG dude.

[frumpylumps]

This whole debacle really shows you how stupid the masses really are.

Steam needs competition and that far outweighs the inconvenience of using another platform even if it is inferior.

I support this move by PGI.

Edited by frumpylumps, 31 July 2019 - 07:30 PM.

[ingramli]

frumpylumps, on 31 July 2019 - 07:30 PM, said:

Steam needs competition

It is true if PGI release on BOTH platform, now it is EGS EXCLUSIVE and it is ANTI-COMPETITION, we, the consumers are left with only 2 options, EGS or no game, it is BAD, period.

[Timberjac]

Axys Rageborn, on 30 July 2019 - 06:18 PM, said:

I have received my refund and I have put that towards the Clan invasion kickstarter instead. The reason as to why I did this is due to the fact that I would like to have a steam key as opposed to using epic. I have no problem with using different launchers however EGS is not where all my games are and I would prefer to have steam instead. (400+ games)

I have also stopped playing MWO recently too not because of this but because of the game becoming stale due to lack of changes and players.

Its a shame as MWO is fun and I reckon MW5 will be ok as well but I can wait a year to see how it goes.

I bet for that Kickstarter campaing, beacouse, I no have new mech that purchase on MWO (really, I think that I'll put money on that anyway, but not too much as I do it now).

Even better… we Will see tha Stone Rhino on one of those mech packs on Battletech… Really sad, dont see it on MWO, but I think that PGI no have time until they reléase MW5... but I can be sure, that they are pulling off their hair, seeing the lot of money that they are leaving to another games related with battletech.

[Dee Eight]

Timberjac, on 31 July 2019 - 08:07 PM, said:

I bet for that Kickstarter campaing, beacouse, I no have new mech that purchase on MWO (really, I think that I'll put money on that anyway, but not too much as I do it now).

Even better… we Will see tha Stone Rhino on one of those mech packs on Battletech… Really sad, dont see it on MWO, but I think that PGI no have time until they reléase MW5... but I can be sure, that they are pulling off their hair, seeing the lot of money that they are leaving to another games related with battletech.

Unlikely as HBS has depended on the graphic modellers at PGI for their mechs. The "clan" mechs coming to battletech are merely licensing the artwork from PGI.

[RakiaTime]

Dee Eight, on 31 July 2019 - 08:11 PM, said:

Unlikely as HBS has depended on the graphic modellers at PGI for their mechs. The "clan" mechs coming to battletech are merely licensing the artwork from PGI.

1. he means the TT Battletech kickstarter
2. HBS have already made their own design, the Hatchetman

[NocturnalBeast]

Rakia Time, on 31 July 2019 - 08:54 PM, said:

1. he means the TT Battletech kickstarter
2. HBS have already made their own design, the Hatchetman

The Hatchetman is a beast in BATTLETECH and it is a nice looking MECH, I would love to have one in MWO if there was melee in MWO.

Edited by Ed Steele, 31 July 2019 - 09:18 PM.

[Pihoqahiak]

Dee Eight, on 31 July 2019 - 08:11 PM, said:

Unlikely as HBS has depended on the graphic modellers at PGI for their mechs. The "clan" mechs coming to battletech are merely licensing the artwork from PGI.

Alex Iglesias also works for Catalyst Games, not just PGI, and many of the mech designs in the Clan Invasion kickstarter are NOT in MWO at all. It's tough to say what money PGI may be getting from Catalyst, if any.

[Alpha Vega]

So still ragging on PGI if you don't like them get of the damn website and take it all to twitter. Hell is going to freeze over before PGI goes down the drain. I think stock in Epic might be a good deal. LOOK paly enjoy and wish Santa brings you a MW5 copy for Xmas.
[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.62)]
Leviathan Cannabis Group Inc[/color]

[color=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.62)]CNSX: EPIC[/color]

Edited by Dark Star Dragon, 31 July 2019 - 10:41 PM.

[Peter2k]

Should start a poll

The number of people who complain about Epic being a security risk, being in league with the CCP, but owning a Xiaomi or Huawei phone