128 replies to this topic

[JC Daxion]

Thorqemada, on 27 July 2019 - 10:08 AM, said:

If you want competition and user friendlyness you go GoG!

EPIC is Monopoly in a different Skin.

And gog does not sell over half the games i own and play.. I must have 150 games that i could not even own/play if i only used GoG. So what am i suppose to do about that? I guess not being able to play a game is better in your book? i also have a bunch of games, around 50 that i can't buy on steam at this point in time.. they also are not on epic either.

So yes, i own games that are not for sale on Steam, GOG, or EPIC

[Thorqemada]

But it will have GoG Galaxy soon™:

[Appuagab]

JC Daxion, on 27 July 2019 - 11:11 AM, said:

I wonder are you mad about all the other games that are "steam" only? gog only? origin only? Battlenet only? Ubisoft only? Do you say that all of them are "forcing" themselves into the game selling business by distorting competition?

Steam, GoG, EA, Activision and Ubisoft don't bribe developers to secure exclusivity. They don't mess with people's preorders to trick them into using some garbage messy service with non-existent security.
They have either first party exclusive titles or games are available only on those stores because devs/publishers don't bother.
Ubisoft and EA actually forced themselves into Launcher Bloat Business.
I only got Ubitrash account by accident when I bought Far Cry Blood Dragon on Steam. Never buying anything from them since then (that's not the only reason, but this is what made me ask myself why would I even give money to this giant asset swapping machine).
EA are just cancer in every single way possible. I'd say that they are even worse Epic with how they hold many franchises and developer studios hostage while actively sabotaging their work. Their presence on the market is just as artificial as Epic's: they are getting loads of free cash from FIFA lootboxes and throw these money around to turn gaming industry into an absolute shietshow. Origin is really bad example here. It should crash and burn just like Tencent Store. Everyone who buys anything from Origin is funding more anti-consumer practices and murder of more good dev studios.
Blizzard, despite being another rotting tumor on the body of video games industry, gets a free pass with Battle.net because it was providing useful service before this clownery with endless launchers even started.
Steam just provides good service. Steam Input, reviews, workshop just to name a few. It's not perfect but it's the best option. And Steam was the first to popularize digital distribution and made buying games more convenient that pirating. It's the biggest platform for a reason and degenerates like Teenie Weenie can't just pretend that their new fancy launcher literally NOBODY ever asked for isn't an inconvenience for players.
GoG is an example of good competition. It's DRM free, nobody is forced to use it and their "exclusives" are just old games (patched to run on modern systems) lots of people want to play but nobody bothers to put on their digital stores. There are lots of people who prefer GoG to Steam and use it willingly.
Teenie Weenie can go FƱCK HIMSELF with his veneer of a white knight protecting the industry from a monopoly. Same goes for all the sellout devs who support the birth of another tumor like EA.

[Bud Crue]

Mystere, on 27 July 2019 - 11:08 AM, said:

So something that is totally unrelated to the MWO game play experience is the final straw to make you stop participating in that game play experience; an experience that some of you have, as Spheroid put it: "suffered" through for going on 8 years.

Folks put up with false promises of CW, four pillars, role warfare, rescale, skill tree, solaris and of course all the nonsensical nerfs, but a decision that impacts another game that doesn't even exist yet, is the thing that makes continued MWO play intolerable.

Ok. I am answered.

[Mystere]

Bud Crue, on 27 July 2019 - 04:27 PM, said:

So something that is totally unrelated to the MWO game play experience is the final straw to make you stop participating in that game play experience; an experience that some of you have, as Spheroid put it: "suffered" through for going on 8 years.

I hope that by saying "you", you were not referring to me. I was just offering a possible reason.

Bud Crue, on 27 July 2019 - 04:27 PM, said:

Folks put up with false promises of CW, four pillars, role warfare, rescale, skill tree, solaris and of course all the nonsensical nerfs, but a decision that impacts another game that doesn't even exist yet, is the thing that makes continued MWO play intolerable.

Ok. I am answered.

But MWO is not separate from MW5, if you really think about it.

Edited by Mystere, 27 July 2019 - 04:37 PM.

[Stone Wall]

Seems people answered OP's question.

[Bombast]

LordKnightFandragon, on 27 July 2019 - 09:29 AM, said:

I gotta question to. Why does Epic make it "exclusive"? Is it because they know that if they dont add that "exclusive" crap to games put on their site, that no one will ever use Epic?

Yup.

For all the talk about Epic's huge Fortnite install base when they first announced their storefront, there was a huge problem - The people who shell out dollars on Fortnite and don't have a Steam investment are not the same people who are buying dozens of games at full price every year. The people who buy all those games already had a platform. A superior platform. A massively superior platform. The Epic store was, and still is, utter crap, and no sane person would willingly buy a game on the platform if given a choice (With the exception, I suppose, of the "Principled" gamers who want more money to go to developers. But if anyone knows how "principled" and true to their word the average gamer is, it should be the MWO community).

So two solutions present themselves: Create a superior product (The Epic Store 2.0), or make people buy games on your platform and get them invested in keeping it installed and open. Creating a better store takes a lot of time, which costs a lot of money. Ransacking developers with what amounts to corporate bribery just costs money.

The choice is obvious.

Bud Crue, on 27 July 2019 - 06:22 AM, said:

But what I don't get from a lot of the posts I am seeing is that this is making some of the longest term players assert that not only will this result in them not purchasing MW5 but also that they are "done" with MWO as well. Why?

Could it be that MWO players have a long and proud history of claiming to be cutting MWO off from their wallets at the drop of a hat and then reneging 5 minutes later?

[Prototelis]

Exclusivity for cash is hardly new to gaming.

[FRAGTAST1C]

"Those who're sticking with us by not requesting a refund will get additional MWO and MW5 rewards".

[Bombast]

Prototelis, on 27 July 2019 - 07:27 PM, said:

Exclusivity for cash is hardly new to gaming.

Console exclusivity has come in two forms over the years - Purchased exclusivity of already developed games (What Epic does) and funding games that would have never been made otherwise (These would be a lot of your big console tent-pole games, some of which reportedly lose money and still serve their purpose).

Wanna guess which one people have been complaining about before Epic was even a thing?

Also, to be fair: Epic says it's done the second one with some Indie developers as well. I have no reason to doubt them (Though I have no idea who they've given this money to) and as one would expect, no one gives a crap about those games being exclusive.

[Prototelis]

Bombast, on 27 July 2019 - 07:35 PM, said:

Console exclusivity has come in two forms over the years - Purchased exclusivity of already developed games (What Epic does) and funding games that would have never been made otherwise (These would be a lot of your big console tent-pole games, some of which reportedly lose money and still serve their purpose).

Wanna guess which one people have been complaining about before Epic was even a thing?

Also, to be fair: Epic says it's done the second one with some Indie developers as well. I have no reason to doubt them (Though I have no idea who they've given this money to) and as one would expect, no one gives a crap about those games being exclusive.

Exclusivity in online game stores isn't a new thing either homie.

[LordNothing]

i miss the days when i could go to an actual store and pick up a game out of the bargain bin.

[Void Angel]

BudCrue, I have a question for you in return: given how long you've been a member of this community, how could you be surprised?

I actually hadn't heard about the Epic switch until about 5 minutes before the AMA the other day. Literally no clue, missed all the drama - but I didn't need to know any specifics to know exactly how people were going to act. I should have made bingo cards - it would've been more amusing than the comment channel was.

• Russ LIED, based on my preferred use of the semantic space of some single sentence he said. Any corrections are just MOAR LIES, and can be chalked up to additional evidence that I'm right.
  
• I'm uninstalling the game and boycotting PGI!
  
• Every single person speaks for "the community," and knows unequivocally what the community wants as a whole.
  
• It's so sad that PGI has killed the entire Mechwarrior franchise through their own shortsighted greed.
  
• We're gonna SUE! That's false advertising! What? No, I'm not a lawyer; why?
  
• PGI is just arrogant! "We know what's best, we know what the players want..." They should listen to us! We know what's best, you fools! So arrogant.
  
• the True Fans of Battletech have suffered through so much, earnestly hoping PGI would "fix the game," but now must cry sad unicorn tears, forever.
  
• For. Ever.

In short, this is the same tantrum that has been thrown every time something has happened that a substantial fraction of the community didn't like. Probably, it happens every time; I've seen the exact same things said in complaint posts about subjects that never got much traction, as far as I could tell. People have not only been saying the same things, they've been using the same stereotyped phrases for the entire time. It's become hip amongst a lot of the community vets to be salty edgelords about anything PGI does.



Now, I'm not saying that those people complaining were wrong, per se. People don't like the Epic store? Well, the refund is there, vote with your wallet. Faction warfare is still an underpopulated shadow of what the players and PGI wanted it to be? Yeah, that's not really debatable, and it's sad; it's totally understandable if you want to walk away.

What I've got no patience left for is the screaming, inconsolable rage that people display at the drop of a hat - and sometimes drop the hat themselves. If Russ Bullock said the sky was blue in an AMA, someone would say, "not if it's overcast! Lies: 1" - and go downhill from there. People have been incandescently angry about a lot of things, and it never goes away.

So you're right to ask, "why did you stay if it wasn't fun?" And the answer, "we're True Fans and we suffered through all this tragedy that wasn't fun because we love Mechwarrior, and PGI is the only way we could get it" is co-dependency at its finest.

For me? It's been a rocky road at points, and the road didn't go places that I wanted it to - even though those places where it was planned to go. But the drive has generally been fun, even if I like other highways more these days. I'll still give MW5 a shot via preorder, and if it turns out to be sunk cost, we'll go from there. If the franchise takes a dive, I'll be annoyed and disappointed, but there's no need to get so angry about it.

Edited by Void Angel, 04 August 2019 - 01:53 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Bud Crue, on 27 July 2019 - 07:39 AM, said:

That's what I am having difficulty with. Play a game for some time, for some, nearly 8 years. Must have enjoyed the experience, no matter how much they complained. And now this EPIC decision, a decision that has nothing to do with MWO and their enjoyment of it, is what has finally made them want to "punish" PGI by no longer playing the game they have enjoyed for all that time. People are weird.

Because they felt betrayed man. People are simple, they usually learn from mistake, and getting back-stabbed by someone they used to trust is a mistake they don't want to do again.

Theres a LOT of steam users, it's as monopoly you could get. And while competition would be healthy, gating games is not competition.

You know, it would be less of a fallout if they didn't just promised steam-release and steam-keys. Hell, they could have just honored the preorders for steam, but have the future sales limited to EGS till the end of the Exclusivity Deal, that's what Metro Exodus did -- even they were better than PGI in handling this.

Thorqemada, on 27 July 2019 - 10:08 AM, said:

If you want competition and user friendlyness you go GoG!

EPIC is Monopoly in a different Skin.

That's ********. I mean, sure gating games is like monopoly, but that's not exactly the same with steam to be "a different skin".

Steam earns it's borderline-monopoly because it's a good platform with good service to customers, EGS is NEITHER, and once the exclusivity deal has expired, everyone will flock back to Steam and further validate it's borderline-monopoly.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 28 July 2019 - 12:55 AM.

[JC Daxion]

Appuagab, on 27 July 2019 - 03:58 PM, said:

Steam, GoG, EA, Activision and Ubisoft don't bribe developers to secure exclusivity. They don't mess with people's preorders to trick them into using some garbage messy service with non-existent security.
They have either first party exclusive titles or games are available only on those stores because devs/publishers don't bother.
Ubisoft and EA actually forced themselves into Launcher Bloat Business.
I only got Ubitrash account by accident when I bought Far Cry Blood Dragon on Steam. Never buying anything from them since then (that's not the only reason, but this is what made me ask myself why would I even give money to this giant asset swapping machine).
EA are just cancer in every single way possible. I'd say that they are even worse Epic with how they hold many franchises and developer studios hostage while actively sabotaging their work. Their presence on the market is just as artificial as Epic's: they are getting loads of free cash from FIFA lootboxes and throw these money around to turn gaming industry into an absolute shietshow. Origin is really bad example here. It should crash and burn just like Tencent Store. Everyone who buys anything from Origin is funding more anti-consumer practices and murder of more good dev studios.
Blizzard, despite being another rotting tumor on the body of video games industry, gets a free pass with Battle.net because it was providing useful service before this clownery with endless launchers even started.
Steam just provides good service. Steam Input, reviews, workshop just to name a few. It's not perfect but it's the best option. And Steam was the first to popularize digital distribution and made buying games more convenient that pirating. It's the biggest platform for a reason and degenerates like Teenie Weenie can't just pretend that their new fancy launcher literally NOBODY ever asked for isn't an inconvenience for players.
GoG is an example of good competition. It's DRM free, nobody is forced to use it and their "exclusives" are just old games (patched to run on modern systems) lots of people want to play but nobody bothers to put on their digital stores. There are lots of people who prefer GoG to Steam and use it willingly.
Teenie Weenie can go FƱCK HIMSELF with his veneer of a white knight protecting the industry from a monopoly. Same goes for all the sellout devs who support the birth of another tumor like EA.

Dude you are completely delusional if you don't think other companies have signed exclusive contracts with other launchers. But just going off your tone of everything else you sound just like the trolls over on PCG's web site that just bash every single EA, bioware, ubi-soft game like the company stole your first born.

Sorry if you don't like how big companies work,, But guess what they could not buy out IP's unless the people wanted to sell them. Not every person wants to make the same game over and over for the rest of their lives. They make a game, sell a bunch of copies, and then sell the IP and make something new. It's how gaming has worked since the 80's.

Yes it sucks that some of my favorite games never had a second hit, but i'd rather it have a chance of a return that i might not like then being buried by a dev that never does anything with it again. Freedom Force is a perfect example.



Now if you will excuse me, i gotta go fire up origin and enjoy helping my Krogan friend save his colony...

[Bombast]

Prototelis, on 27 July 2019 - 08:46 PM, said:

Exclusivity in online game stores isn't a new thing either homie.

And people have been upset about it.

Not sure why people here and elsewhere want to frame it like the rage against Epic is new or special. It's just hotter because of how flagerant Epic is about it (And the preorder sniping. Most everyone else has the decency to do this stuff way before this point).

[Kotzi]

Bombast, on 28 July 2019 - 03:27 AM, said:

And people have been upset about it.

Not sure why people here and elsewhere want to frame it like the rage against Epic is new or special. It's just hotter because of how flagerant Epic is about it (And the preorder sniping. Most everyone else has the decency to do this stuff way before this point).

Its the "Others do it to, so its ok!" excuse, which is actually no excuse. Those people are the reasons steam and others got to where we they are right now. Letting greedy people push the boundaries bit for bit. Voila, microtransactions, lootboxes, paying to be betatesters and all the other "benefits" gifted to us nowadays. Sorry for the ragerant.

[Bud Crue]

Void Angel, on 27 July 2019 - 10:50 PM, said:

BudCrue, I have a question for you in return: given how long you've been a member of this community, how could you be surprised?.

Not suprised, as much as confused. I get the anger toward PGI/Russ for the whole EPIC betrayal in regard to MW5, I just don't see why that of all things would be the "last straw" for leaving MWO. I suppose my disconnect is derived from the fact that I have zero interest in MW5 whereas some, apparently, have only been "suffering" through MWO in anticipation of MW5, and now this whole EPiC thing means some of them have to wait another year until MW5 is presumably available on a platform they find less objectional.

So they have to wait another year, and so that means no longer playing the game that has been holding them over for the last 8 years? Now don't get me wrong, I get the rage, and empathize with the MW5 bait and switch anger even if I don't care about MW5. But leaving the game that has been filling the void and that costs you nothing to play because of this decision of all decisions just doesn't make much sense to me; but it doesn't surprise me that others feel differently.

[JC Daxion]

Kotzi, on 28 July 2019 - 04:45 AM, said:

Its the "Others do it to, so its ok!" excuse, which is actually no excuse. Those people are the reasons steam and others got to where we they are right now. Letting greedy people push the boundaries bit for bit. Voila, microtransactions, lootboxes, paying to be betatesters and all the other "benefits" gifted to us nowadays. Sorry for the ragerant.

It's how we got where we are now? Let me tell you a little story. I have a classic game "Box" collection. It's basically all the games i bought myself from the store in boxes in the 90's to early 2k's I have a little over 20.. The cost of those games is 1k dollars, games rarely were on sale, and often stores would sell out and you could miss out, or have to wait weeks for restock. Maybe you got lucky one day and pulled a score from the bargin bin..

I now use Digital launchers since around 2008 i got gog, my first game on steam was 2011, origin 2012, Ubi-soft 2012, Blizzard 2016. (i'll just use those launchers)

Between all those launchers i have over 350 games.. Everything combined all launchers, does not come to the cost of my "Box" collection which as i stated is just over 20 games.. and all of them outside of 5 that i can't have been re-bought on gog.


My point is gaming has never been cheaper and i've been playing games since Pong, and buying them since 82 when i got my first game system. The outrage over cost is the biggest bunch of BS around.. If you don't like the cost of something, don't buy it. But please stop acting like gaming is more expensive today than it was in the past. It has never been cheaper and that is a fact.


Capitalism is a good thing when it comes to gaming, and now we are reaping the rewards. Some poor sap could have 50+ free games by the time the year is over if all they did was collected the freebies on epic.. But i guess paying Steam is better right?


It's kinda funny, Outrage at epic, Yet steam's 30% cut isn't even a whisper. If a game company thinks epics deal is better and takes that instead, why not send your hate mail to steam and say give the devs a better cut.. verse rage about epic? That is what i don't get.

[DarkDevilDancer]

JC Daxion, on 27 July 2019 - 09:33 AM, said:

Maybe.. But why not give steam some competition? That is only good for the consumer in the long run.

Exclusives are not competition, it's the exact opposite you are trying to force customers onto your store it's not good for customers at all.

I'll be getting a refund and i'll never again give PGI a penny of my money.