52 replies to this topic

[CeeKay Boques]

Do we know if there will BE repairs, with any kind of time sink? Or are we just speculating that IF there were repairs, they should be in compact form?

[Sug]

Repairs will probably have to be near instantaneous to keep most people happy. I think realtime repairs would only be tolerable if the game was separated into "simulator" battles for the softcore group and "real" battles that affect the planets/factions/etc for the hardcore crowd.

On the topic of real time gaming I haven't really seen any posts about people speculating on whether or not we're going to have to wait months on end to travel from planet to planet....

[Threat Doc]

Sug, on 28 December 2011 - 09:23 AM, said:

On the topic of real time gaming I haven't really seen any posts about people speculating on whether or not we're going to have to wait months on end to travel from planet to planet....

Right, and you won't likely see much about that because, I believe, it's a foregone conclusion that travel is not going to be via lore. I agree with that, but what's the best median way of handling it, because instantaneous travel is not going to be tenable, either?

[Colaessus]

Would you like your Dices back seeing as you clearly never touched a game in the last 30 years.

[Black Sunder]

I'm ok with it taking a few hours and some C-bills to get to planet X along with load limits for the jump ships. I'm ok with it taking an hour or 2 and c-bills depending on damage to repair a mech as long as I have another mech in the hanger for use.

I'm ok with these things taking time because Eve Online taught me patience. Waiting a few days or a week for a skill to finish is nothing for me anymore. Those month long skills are still sorta nasty but at the end of it I feel good about what I did and over time a month becomes nothing either.

[Ghost73]

[EDMW]CSN, on 27 December 2011 - 08:24 PM, said:

That is what I was thinking of. Having to pay cash for better technical support should dramatically speed up repair times or even instantly. But if you are a penny pincher and don't mind waiting out while using some starter stock mechs, you can use the free repairs the House grant you, although they might be slower.

Paying for time? This makes the game become a Pay 2 Play game, not F2P.

Kristov Kerensky, on 28 December 2011 - 06:51 AM, said:

What if you aren't a House Warrior, then what CSN? Mercs and Lone Wolves are just SoL? Yeah..that'll make people want to run/join Merc corps or be Lone Wolves...so much for the Dragoons, ELH, GDL, etc, who'd join anything but a House under that..no one.

Repairs..instant but cost you c-bills, ain't got the c-bills, then you end up with a negative balance and can't buy anything until you earn a positive balance..and really bad players would end up with massive negative account balances..but they could still jump right back into combat after getting that Jenny blown out from under them for the 30th consecutive time today.

This, but more along the lines of: no money, no repair.

Kristov Kerensky, on 28 December 2011 - 06:51 AM, said:

Customization..if it's a variant of the stock, make it instant but cost c-bills, weapons costs + customization costs, need a positive balance that can afford the final cost or no go.

Scratch building or non-variant customization...this I could see taking time and c-bills, but hours, not days. Again, have to have enough c-bills to afford the entire job at once or no-go.

I still have no idea how they will handle variants or slotting weapons for customization. I have a feeling that chassis will be more restricted to fit their designed purpose, but allow enough variation so the player can customize it how they like to play. For example, swapping out the LRMs on a catapult for MRMs, and exchanging the 4 MLs for 4 small pulse lasers, extra tonnage goes to armor and heatsinks.
In the end though, it would fit the gameplay to not have to wait for modifications.

Tweaks, on 28 December 2011 - 07:34 AM, said:

I have also pointed out the problem in other threads, many times over. The 1:1 timeline is indeed a problem, and I really wonder how the devs are going to implement the repair/refit system, and inter-planetary travel, so that it doesn't look completely unplausible.

Repairs can't be instant, and neither can refits (especially class F), if they want to keep the timeline plausible. Even if you can purchase an army of techs to make the repair process faster, it still can't possibly be instant. It's science-fiction, not fantasy with magic! The same goes with inter-planetary travel (Jumpships).

Instant repairs/travel may make sense in an instant-action game (with no timeline or persistence) such as MW4, but it does not make sense in MWO.

The game is not meant to simulate the life of a Mechwarrior, it is meant to simulate piloting a mech. The only thing to do is go to battles, what are players supposed to do in the meantime?

Black Sunder, on 28 December 2011 - 09:43 AM, said:

I'm ok with it taking a few hours and some C-bills to get to planet X along with load limits for the jump ships. I'm ok with it taking an hour or 2 and c-bills depending on damage to repair a mech as long as I have another mech in the hanger for use.

I'm ok with these things taking time because Eve Online taught me patience. Waiting a few days or a week for a skill to finish is nothing for me anymore. Those month long skills are still sorta nasty but at the end of it I feel good about what I did and over time a month becomes nothing either.

Good thing this game will be nothing like EVE.

Edited by Ghost73, 28 December 2011 - 11:36 AM.

[Black Sunder]

Ghost73, on 28 December 2011 - 11:34 AM, said:

Good thing this game will be nothing like EVE.

Yeah all that complexity would screw people up.

Edited by Black Sunder, 28 December 2011 - 11:41 AM.

[Ghost73]

Black Sunder, on 28 December 2011 - 11:41 AM, said:

Yeah all that complexity would screw people up.

Sarcasm?

It's not a matter of complexity, but time invested. Most players can handle the amount of 'complexity' that EVE throws at them. However, most people just do not have the time or interest to devote the time required to becoming a full-time successful player. It makes sense for a niche game like that to require time to balance gameplay because it actually simulates the life of a spaceship pilot, but if the devs are shooting for a larger target audience with a more action-based game (keyword: action), then forcing players to wait is a terrible way to balance the game.

Edited by Ghost73, 28 December 2011 - 12:03 PM.

[MaddMaxx]

Black Sunder, on 28 December 2011 - 11:41 AM, said:

Yeah all that complexity would screw people up.

Out of some morbid form of curiosity. Do you start the Skill and then log off and come back in a week or month and start up again with your new Skill in play?

If not where is the complexity in that scheme. Sounds like a way to suck players into doing make-no things while the they wait for the carrot on a rather long stick... Or an anti-grind mechanic. Here is your Skill, now go away but come back...

[Black Sunder]

MaddMaxx, on 28 December 2011 - 12:10 PM, said:

Out of some morbid form of curiosity. Do you start the Skill and then log off and come back in a week or month and start up again with your new Skill in play?

If not where is the complexity in that scheme. Sounds like a way to suck players into doing make-no things while the they wait for the carrot on a rather long stick... Or an anti-grind mechanic. Here is your Skill, now go away but come back...

No. I still do stuff while its training. pvp mostly. The skils themselves have 5 levels. You only need it to lvl 4 most of the time to be good. Lvl 5 for the last % bit of it or for a prerequisite to something better.

[Kaemon]

I always thought that offline skill building was twofold in purpose.

1. To keep the feeling of accomplishment/immersion ongoing, even if you're not 'in game'
2. To reduce server overpopulation issues and botting.

They appear to have a built in mechanism to allow for both scenarios (both real time repair and accelerated) that suits both the casual player, faction house owned mechs, the 'Grab and Go' players, and the merc corp which own their mechs but need to deal with repairs (and limited resources/mechs) in real time.

Since they cannot fight each other, you can run parallel degrees of 'realism'.

Seems like the best of both worlds.

Edited by Kaemon, 28 December 2011 - 12:23 PM.

[Nowan123]

Huh.
I like the "tripwire-advanced story" concept, and I like repairs/customizations taking 5-20 minutes. Why?
Instant action, in it I'm testing out my mech and getting used to it while it's being custom'd/repaired. Test drives baby!

[Threat Doc]

Ghost73, on 28 December 2011 - 11:34 AM, said:

The game is not meant to simulate the life of a Mechwarrior, it is meant to simulate piloting a mech. The only thing to do is go to battles, what are players supposed to do in the meantime?

Well, go to battles, of course. While you're in-transit, while you're waiting for repairs to be complete, you go to a lobby where a battle board is up, and fights you can participate in are listed, as with the Lone Wolves, and you just go fill slots to fight. Your avatar doesn't get better with these battles, but you can at least go have some fun.

Wouldn't it be nice if that happened?

[FACEman Peck]

Kay Wolf, on 28 December 2011 - 12:36 PM, said:

Well, go to battles, of course. While you're in-transit, while you're waiting for repairs to be complete, you go to a lobby where a battle board is up, and fights you can participate in are listed, as with the Lone Wolves, and you just go fill slots to fight. Your avatar doesn't get better with these battles, but you can at least go have some fun.

Wouldn't it be nice if that happened?

I like this, at least it doesn't leave people to stand in their kitchen getting snacks or something like that while they're on there way to go blow **** up.

Edited by FACEman Peck, 28 December 2011 - 01:46 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

I already stated I'd not mind time for repairs/customization, but the fact is, this IS a F2P game, and when it launches we'll have exactly 1 thing to do..planetary conquest. No random matches, no arena, no testing fields. This isn't supposition, this is what we've been straight up TOLD by PGI, planetary conquest at launch, the others they'll work in later..maybe..they haven't even decided if they'll INCLUDE those yet ever.

So..you want to make it take time to repair a Mech..or travel..and you have literally NOTHING to fill up the player's time while they wait.

Yeah...no...that would be beyond a bad design decision, that's beyond the realm of pure stupidity...unless you WANT the game to be a complete and total failure, then it's brilliant.

[LordKnightFandragon]

One problem with the 1:1 timing in hte game is what do people who only have like an hour or so a night to play? What is it? THey come in, play their round and have to spend the rest of the night until tomorrow waiting for their mech to be fixed? I can handle some time to wait for repairs and all but waiting for an entire day to fix your mech...its a bit much, atleast for a game.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Aegis Kleais™, on 28 December 2011 - 07:53 PM, said:

I love the Q&A's we get, but where do I go to fire off a question for asking?

My question has to do with the game architecture. Moreso:

Q. Does it use P2P Matchmaking or Game Server Browsers?
Q. Does it allow a client to host (and play) a game where they are the admin?
Q. Does it allow a client to setup a dedicated server (that they can administer) which is available to clients?
Q. What confirmed game modes are there? (Requesting clarification on game-world matches vs. ranked/unranked, etc.)

If anyone knows (no assumptions, please) an answer to the above, I'd love to know. I'm not even sure if this information hasn't yet been addressed.


Matchmaking.
No.
No.
Deathmatch, Team Deathmatch, Conquest+ are confirmed.

The above is what Brian Ekman posted earlier about what we will have on launch. Looks like slightly more than planetary conquest only. Still need effectively no repair time to allow people to fit in multiple matches of the first two. Still not sure on Conquest.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Given a lot of the mechs are ammo dependant does this mean that ammo & coolant trucks should also be on the field as it presumanbly won't be UANH? Can't have running out of ammo or overheating spoil the fun.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Nik, that directly counters what the Q&A1 and 2 state, which is that we'll only have the planetary conquest at launch, nothing else. Be nice if we have more, but it really doesn't matter, if ALL we have is combat, combat OR..more combat, then repairs/customization taking time means people can't play cause..there is NOTHING else to do but combat.

There's nothing to occupy the player's time but combat, so doing anything that removes them from that, in a F2P game...design recipe for failure, that's it. New player logs in after spending however long to d/l the game, grabs a Mech, and since there's NOTHING in the game but combat, they jump in. Mech naturally gets blown to little pieces..repair time will be let me see..2 hours per arm, 6 for the engine, 3 per leg, armor takes 15 mins per box, weapons each have a replacement time..yeah, your Mech will be ready for usage in 34 hours and 53 minutes Mr New Guy, we hope to see you then! And he'll never log back in, and he'll make sure his friends give that new MWO game a wide berth as well.

Now..a year or so down the road, MWO has a very large and willing to pay base, earned lots of high praise, and PGI gets backing to make an actual MMO on top of it..THEN they could start working in time for repairs, because there'd be something to DO in the game when you can't jump into combat. Until that happens though, no, it's a really bad idea, no matter how much I would like it. There's a LOT of things I'd love to see straight from TT, but I also know a lot of those things would KILL this game in the F2P market, so..I don't advocate them. I want them, I'll mention that..but I'll fight against them because I want the game to be a huge success..been over a decade since I had a good MW game, really don't want to wait that long again.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Kristov, Looks like we have the choice of three types of combat from Brians post. I agree with you -we need a sucessful game to get what we want long term. Yes anything is better than nothing. I have already posted that we have to accept no repair time because it doesn't make sense otherwise. If they start doing linked/multiple objecteive scenario's in the campaign game, then that would make sense to have some time based repairs, though even then not necessarily. It all depends on other factors like availability of other mechs, supplies etc. Which could theoretically be phased in a patch at a time over time. I certainly hope that most updates don't just cosist of new mech's. The other point is that the game needs to be sorted and established for when the Clan's arrive as that will cause a real upheaval in the game. A high proportion of the existing members will want to play Clan, many because that is their allegiance, many more because of the shiny toys.