448 replies to this topic

[Tiantara]

PhoenixFire55, on 21 August 2019 - 09:56 AM, said:

Because when you play against players that are even worse than you are you get high scores. When you end up in matches with better players you get zilch.


Hmmmm ... how about like ... now?

- Ok... im in Solaris... name your division

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

Tiantara, on 21 August 2019 - 09:14 AM, said:

- And what you say about that than?

Spoiler

dude, first off: no offense meant.
but:
https://leaderboard....arch?u=Tiantara

pls use the same tool to search the rest of the posters here and maybe, JUST maybe, listen once and a while to what people with higher numbers have to say.
I'm NOT saying they're always right, hellno. but with those numbers, they're doing more 'right' things -in the game- than you currently do.
-> good advice hasn't hurt anybody, yet. just sayin.

[Kubernetes]

Tiantara, on 21 August 2019 - 09:49 AM, said:

- You think Im poor pilot?
.

I don't think it, I know it.

The question is, why don't you recognize it?

Tiantara, on 21 August 2019 - 09:49 AM, said:

Yeap - I spectate how others play, but more often change mech and start another game.
.

Yeah, that explains it. Maybe you should try watching other players. Maybe then your eyes will open up to reality.

Edited by Kubernetes, 21 August 2019 - 10:10 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Tiantara, on 21 August 2019 - 09:56 AM, said:

- Ok... im in Solaris... name your division

Any, I don't care.

[Alienized]

1vs1 is such a stupid thing to do.
this game is mainly 12vs12, what does a 1v1 prove? who has the better aim if anything or the better suited mech for a specific style of fighting.


pointless.



while we are at it, did a 750 dmg battle in a dragon-5N (weapons: 1uac10 / 1 HPPC) with 1e0n in the other team in his vgl-3. he did roughly the same.
my team won.
does that mean im better than 1e0n?
hell naw i wont be ever.

skill isnt a short measurement thing. its how you perform on a consistant basis.

everyone has outliers. upwards or downwards.
some playstyle are harder, some are less.
some mechs are more forgiving, some wont be ever.

depending on what you prefer, stats can do down or up.

if you are under a certain % you are just not good because it means you cant perform on a regular basis.
that doesnt mean you cant play well. it just means you cant do it over a period whatever you play.

and really, stop that 1vs1 nonsense.

[PhoenixFire55]

Well ...

He knows how to move and even hits more often than he misses ... still bad but not hopelessly so.

[Tiantara]

- Well... I lost every duel... ~_~
Longrange against brawl in brawl map.
Brawler against longrange ac2 on open...
And so on...
Ok,I'm bad pilot, but anyway suggestion and advices which works good in premade or tier 1 solo play not working in tier2 with random situation... as well as builds which not good for my playstyle.

PhoenixFire55, on 21 August 2019 - 10:45 AM, said:

Well ...

He knows how to move and even hits more often than he misses ... still bad but not hopelessly so.

- You are too merciful. True is - I lost in every battle and do less damage and got CT opened before even ccome to range sometimes, have no chance and play as bad as possible...

Edited by Tiantara, 21 August 2019 - 10:49 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

We did all five Solaris maps in private lobby matching mech tonnages actually and I did ask him if he was ok with each map before we started ... needless to say I was expecting Scorch when I saw 85t for Ishiyama not gauss-Marauder-IIC. Streak Adder actually made me work a little for a change but still no dice :/

[Tiantara]

PhoenixFire55, on 21 August 2019 - 10:51 AM, said:

We did all five Solaris maps in private lobby matching mech tonnages actually and I did ask him if he was ok with each map before we started ... needless to say I was expecting Scorch when I saw 85t for Ishiyama not gauss-Marauder-IIC. Streak Adder actually made me work a little for a change but still no dice :/

- And that give much fun! Yeap, I don't have Scorch... only one Marauder for c-bill only because of its pinpoint damage by gauss+erll. My best sniper ecm mech. Adder - made special for event where need kills on light or KMDD - it really fun against flea, locust, and even some medium mech. Also it bring massive damage about 48 splash damage

Edited by Tiantara, 21 August 2019 - 11:03 AM.

[Horseman]

Tiantara, on 21 August 2019 - 08:50 AM, said:

- Yeap... because there was bottle neck and I really don't like friendly fire. Especially in my back. So I go around. Not a really good idea was.

First step is to recognize that it was a bad idea rather than unlucky.
Bad ideas sometimes work, yes. When that happens, the idea was still bad and you just got lucky.

Tiantara, on 21 August 2019 - 09:49 AM, said:

- You think Im poor pilot? So why I get damage score like on last screen?

Statistical outliers. To be classified as "bad" a pilot doesn't need to be always bad, just to more often do badly than he does well.

Quote

If team win - no matter survive my mech or not.

In theory true. In practice, every mech is an asset and shouldn't be thrown away at whim. The longer your mech survives, the longer you can contribute in the match. The longer you contribute, the more often your team will win.
That is part of what armor sharing is about: keeping more mechs on the field to give your team an advantage in firepower.

Quote

So you what suggest - don't die no matter what?

No, just play more cautiously, use terrain to shield yourself from enemy fire as long as possible and roll to spread incoming damage whenever you're not firing - those are all learnable skills.
Your goal should be to deal more damage to the enemy than the enemy deals to you.

Quote

- RFL-D8 \ RFL-3C - 2xAC10+4ERSL

The 3C will do better DPS with 4xAC2. For AC10s you want the 3N instead - it has 5% more cooldown and a huge velocity quirk that will help your accuracy.

Quote

but anyway suggestion and advices which works good in premade or tier 1 solo play not working in tier2 with random situation...

Actually, any player who plays long enough will end up in Tier 1 given they play enough matches. The result is that this mythical "Tier 1" is chock full of clueless, overconfident idiots, and since you're in T2 you're likely playing against them quite often already.

Quote

as well as builds which not good for my playstyle.

Your playstyle is not unchangeable. Rather than clutch to one comfort zone, try to push out of it by exploring meta builds similar to the ones you're already familiar with

Edited by Horseman, 21 August 2019 - 11:50 AM.

[A1Ste4kSauce]

I think the more mechs you have facing the enemy at one time means more people to spread damage around. MWO is a team game and the reason many matches snowball is because one team globs up and the other is split up. So sharing does help, but charging alone and getting focused down is not armor sharing, has to be a team effort; a single unified push or swapping out firing positions on a firing line. And yea 1v1s are nonsense like Alienized said. QP is 12v12 too. In a game where teams matter and where kills can be stolen easily, who cares about stats.

[Kusok Myasa]

wtf is "armor sharing"? if i play strategy game i can safely rotate units, move away injured ones and move forward fresh ones. But in this game it's almost impossible. Every person must care about his own armor and health. if your health is low - move back or at least be careful. It's impossible to save your teammate from death if he did something stupid.

[Xiphias]

Kusok Myasa, on 21 August 2019 - 12:09 PM, said:

wtf is "armor sharing"? if i play strategy game i can safely rotate units, move away injured ones and move forward fresh ones. But in this game it's almost impossible. Every person must care about his own armor and health. if your health is low - move back or at least be careful. It's impossible to save your teammate from death if he did something stupid.

Armor sharing in the context of MWO is mostly about sharing attention, you don't necessarily have to get shot for it to be effective. The main idea being that the ideal situation should be like the RTS, the team rotates damage units back and moves fresh units forward. Obviously, you can't control your teammates, but if possible you should help support them (e.g. if you're fresh move forward to draw fire while they move back. All within reason of course.

In practice, discussions on "armor sharing" mostly boil down to telling players not to sit in the back the entire match lobbing LRMs or tickling with ERLLs while the rest of the team is getting shot at. It's really less about sharing armor and more about presenting more targets to the enemy to limit their ability to focus fire effectively. It's just really easy to tell at the end of a match when the last guy alive is an assault mech at 99% that they weren't helping the team to the best of their ability.

[Kusok Myasa]

Xiphias, on 21 August 2019 - 01:38 PM, said:

Armor sharing in the context of MWO is mostly about sharing attention, you don't necessarily have to get shot for it to be effective. The main idea being that the ideal situation should be like the RTS, the team rotates damage units back and moves fresh units forward. Obviously, you can't control your teammates, but if possible you should help support them (e.g. if you're fresh move forward to draw fire while they move back. All within reason of course.

In practice, discussions on "armor sharing" mostly boil down to telling players not to sit in the back the entire match lobbing LRMs or tickling with ERLLs while the rest of the team is getting shot at. It's really less about sharing armor and more about presenting more targets to the enemy to limit their ability to focus fire effectively. It's just really easy to tell at the end of a match when the last guy alive is an assault mech at 99% that they weren't helping the team to the best of their ability.

No, i don't need to "draw fire". Again, if my teammate is getting shot - it's his problem, not mine. All I need to do - is to shoot. No matter from where. If i can shoot from far away - that's ok.
All this "armor sharing" is ********. All that matters is how effective you can shoot. If i have close range build - then i need to get closer. But not to "share armor" or save my teammate.

[Prototelis]

You are probably already health pooling without realizing it.

[Xiphias]

Kusok Myasa, on 21 August 2019 - 01:56 PM, said:

No, i don't need to "draw fire". Again, if my teammate is getting shot - it's his problem, not mine. All I need to do - is to shoot. No matter from where. If i can shoot from far away - that's ok.
All this "armor sharing" is ********. All that matters is how effective you can shoot. If i have close range build - then i need to get closer. But not to "share armor" or save my teammate.

That's both a selfish and shortsighted approach. Shooting well is important, that's undeniable. Distributing damage is also important. Watch any high level comp match, being able to effectively spread damage out can be the difference between winning and losing. Once mechs start to go down matches often snowball. A lot of this falls on individual players to know when to rotate backwards, but having teammates that know when to present it also important. Coordinated pushes are a thing after all. It's about getting as many guns on target at the same time, while simultaneously presenting the most armor possible. There are targets you don't want focused down, you use your other mechs to draw attention away from them.

In pug queue it's obviously a different situation, but the same base principles still apply, albeit in a much more limited way. I'll be the first to admit that there are plenty of pug teammates who aren't worth saving or the armor you would lose to help them. Armor sharing is not about bailing out players that made bad decisions, that usually just puts you at risk and makes the team's situation worse. It is about effectively contributing to the team and making it hard for the other team to focus down any given mech.

Consider the case where both teams have firing lines that are trading with each other. One team crests together and focuses fire. The other team pokes out in a staggered fashion, a few at a time. Guess which team is going to win most of the time?

If you have a decent teammate and you can interpose yourself to allow them to disengage from a situation and continue fighting instead of dying this can be a net benefit for the team. It's situational though and your personal armor is valuable so it's a judgement call as to when to do it. There's nothing wrong with shooting from far away as long as it is helping the team, however there are cases where doing do ends up being worse for the team and can even lose matches.

A good example of this that I see with some frequency is at the end of a match when there are only a few mechs left on either side. Let's say you have one fairly damaged mech with most/all it's guns and a fresh mech. If the fresh mech stays back and shoots, the damaged mech will get killed pretty quickly and then ganged up on by the remaining enemies and lose. On the other hand, if the fresh mech pushes in and is able to let the damaged mech rotate out it will take the enemy much longer to kill it and both players will now be able to put fire on the enemy. More fire for a longer period of time is better, just like in a strategy game. It's just harder to coordinate it in MWO.

The better a player you are, the more your armor ends up being worth and the fewer the situations where it's worth using that armor to protect your teammates (who are likely significantly worse than you are). That said, armor sharing is still an important and valid tactic that the whole team should be working towards. Keep as many guns firing for as long as possible.

[Bombast]

Prototelis, on 21 August 2019 - 02:24 PM, said:

You are probably already health pooling without realizing it.

Without a doubt. It's weird how many people, bad or in this case good, don't seem to realize that maximizing engagement affects two things - What your team puts out, and what your team takes it.

How someone in the 99% percentile can think he's playing MWO on a one-way street is beyond me though.

[PhoenixFire55]

Bombast, on 21 August 2019 - 02:57 PM, said:

Without a doubt. It's weird how many people, bad or in this case good, don't seem to realize that maximizing engagement affects two things - What your team puts out, and what your team takes it.

How someone in the 99% percentile can think he's playing MWO on a one-way street is beyond me though.

Well one other argument I'd like to bring as a 98% percentile chap is that armor sharing concept we've discussed here so far had an assumption that all player on the team have equal potential contribution. However due to obvious skill difference between players it is just not so. In that context for example me sharing armor in order to prolong the life of someone who is significantly lower skill level might very well actually be counter-productive towards winning. I.e. even alone against 2 enemies I will be able to do more having full armor than me and say 40% percentile chap together while having half the armor both.

Now personally I don't give a sh*t and would still share armor in hopes of the other guy actually being usful, but still ... I know that it had bitten me in the azz more times than I can count. Its tricky ... you know all the "good" and "bad" players by now, but the middle ground of the playerbase is like a random numbers generator - sometimes they'll do the right thing and sometimes they'll decide to screw you and themselves over.

[Wil McCullough]

Prototelis, on 21 August 2019 - 06:42 AM, said:

Duh covers as much of the mech as you should be exposing with hill peaks. Duh.

Duh we're already in agreement that the mech is good at ridge poking. I'm talking about situations outside of ridge poking. Duh.

Hell, in a perfect world, you may not even need the arm to twist off damage when ridge poking with the bj. You could lose the arm and still twist damage with the remaining stub considering how little mech you expose.

[Prototelis]

duh, arms still cover a significant portion of side torso, duh.