192 replies to this topic

[Aidan Crenshaw]

I'd say that sentence does not refer to a distinct number of problems (2).

[Tesunie]

Nesutizale, on 23 August 2019 - 11:49 AM, said:

Wasn't the license running out this year or had allready? Also its not what I would call a technical issue but contract or plain license issue but as I understand it he was talking about two technical issues?

Frankly the way the sentance is phrased its strange.
" There are a number of reasons " - ok
"both known technical" - so two tech issues that we know of? What are these two, i don't know them.
"and potential future issus" - and something that might pop up in the future

or is it "a number of reasons that could be technical and unknown future issues"

My english dosn't seam to be good enough to take that appart or is there a -> , <- to many?

You did not read that right and slightly out of context:
"both" - Meaning two obstacle types.
"known technical" - They have a technical issue of some kind with this option, maybe more than one.
"and potential future issues" - Problems they do not know of yet or can suspect might be an issue later.

This isn't two technical problems, but a description of the types of problems they may encounter.
Edit: Both is the starting of a list of sorts.

Edited by Tesunie, 23 August 2019 - 03:08 PM.

[Nesutizale]

Thx.

[Draco Harkins]

This is me right now.







and post banned in 3, 2, 1...

[Darthducker]

How about giving us that Steam version you promised us? No?

So disappointed. At least Metro Exodus honored pre-orders. despite the same scummy behaviour.

[Tesunie]

Darthducker, on 25 August 2019 - 02:22 AM, said:

How about giving us that Steam version you promised us? No?

So disappointed. At least Metro Exodus honored pre-orders. despite the same scummy behaviour.

PGI does to. If you don't like the terms changing to Epic games (rather than Steam), you have full options to ask and get a full refund. Oh, and did we mention you also get to keep all the MW:O content that came with that said preorder... for free?

I don't think we could get a better apology than that. I mean, the MW:O stuff actually typically was worth more than the cost of the preorder itself, making MW5 a freebie in comparison.

[Spam Lanwalker]

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 28 August 2019 - 08:24 AM.
unconstructive, inappropriate language

[Nesutizale]

The comparsion to Metro is a bit off. Steam allowed Metro to keep its preorder because they where allready paid via steam. MW5 was paid directly to PGI, neither Steam nor Epic would have gotten that money until PGI would have bought the keys.
Next thing is that Steam changed it politics towards Epic exclusive deal to not recognize preorders any more when they change store. So even IF PGI wanted to buy Steamkeys now they can't.

So things are a bit different now then they where with Metro.

Edited by Nesutizale, 26 August 2019 - 03:56 AM.

[Ravenlord]

Wow, way to kill all excitement I had for this game... I am so happy I didn't preorder it right now. Guess it's going to be 2 more years then until it is on steam and on sale and I may finally play it.
You try to force me where to spend my money and where to play my games out of greed, I will make damn sure you get even less out of me than you would normally have.

[Dar1ng One]

Fortnite as of this post has a mech, and a Borderland's style zone. What a great selfless company Epic is to allow Borderlands to allow 250 mil plus players to have a sample inside of their live game. Unreal cross promotion.

When MW 5 drops, Fortnite may have a rift zone of Steiner Solaris map with 2 Brute's re-skinned as an Atlas and a Timberwolf.

Epic stuff.

Edited by Dar1ng One, 27 August 2019 - 05:56 AM.

[SplatCat]

Pre order now...
I pre ordered in Febuary, coz FAQ said it will be available on STEAM.
oh well I thought, I would prefer it same as MWO with it's own launcher, but I can live with steam.
6 months later:
-Release date in September rejoice !!!!
-Oh yeah no we move to December as we just decided to take cash for epic exclusive. Yes when you pre ordered and supported us making this game we said steam or something but who cares, epic gave us cash so we [Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 28 August 2019 - 08:13 AM.
staff abuse, unconstructive, inappropriate language

[Tesunie]

SplatCat, on 27 August 2019 - 04:24 PM, said:

Pre order now...
I pre ordered in Febuary, coz FAQ said it will be available on STEAM.
oh well I thought, I would prefer it same as MWO with it's own launcher, but I can live with steam.
6 months later:
-Release date in September rejoice !!!!
-Oh yeah no we move to December as we just decided to take cash for epic exclusive. Yes when you pre ordered and supported us making this game we said steam or something but who cares, epic gave us cash so we [Redacted]

I've said it before, many times in fact, in this thread already. PGI is a business and needs to make money. Epic offered a good deal, better than Steam. They earned (from all things I've been reading) imediate profit by going to Epic rather than through Steam. It is normally best to start in profit rather than in debt.

Also, if you did order the Community Preorder, than you got a ton of MW:O goodies from it. You can now, due to the change to Epic, get a FULL refund from your Community Preorder. Oh, and for the record, you don't have to give up any of the MW:O preorder goodies you got from the preorder with this refund, you only give up the MW5 content... So ask for your refund and KEEP the now free MW:O content you've already been enjoy for FREE. (Unto which, the value of said preorder MW:O goodies exceeded the value of what was paid for most/all package levels. Typically in MC alone. Not to mention the Marauder II packs...)

Want to complain some more? I'm sure PGI could ask for you to surrender or pay back that MW:O content for withdrawing from your preorder "commitment"... Or provide only a partial refund rather than a full one...

I know moving to Epic wasn't ideal for a lot of people. PGI has done very well to rectify this as best they can if you disagree with the change. What do you do? Whine, complain, and "spit in their face" for trying to make it right in a way that actually favors you. But by all means, continue to complain about getting stuff FOR FREE from your preorder refund...

Edited by draiocht, 28 August 2019 - 08:14 AM.
Quote Clean-up

[latinisator]

Tesunie, on 27 August 2019 - 10:04 PM, said:

stuff I agree with at 101%

You have to accept the FACT, however, that PGI consciously lied to us, at least during the last days of the preorder because for all we know the EPIC exclusivity was "bargained well and done" back then. Regarding this I understand the "whiners" since PGI should have played with open cards on this one.
But perhaps they were not allowed to by the deals regulations.

Else, I strongly dislike the language some complainers use. Also some comparisons do not work for me (the car thingy).
But you know the saying of Einstein: There are two things without limits: The entitlement of MW:O players and the stupidity of mankind.

[Ravenlord]

Tesunie, on 27 August 2019 - 10:04 PM, said:

I've said it before, many times in fact, in this thread already. PGI is a business and needs to make money. Epic offered a good deal, better than Steam. They earned (from all things I've been reading) imediate profit by going to Epic rather than through Steam. It is normally best to start in profit rather than in debt.

I'm sure majorly pissing off a big share of your potential buyers for immediate monetary gratification is a GREAT way to ensure longevity and future profits.

[Nesutizale]

Quote

But perhaps they were not allowed to by the deals regulations.

I think it is very likely that, until the signing, everything talked about is confidantial and can't be disscussed with outsiders.

So yes there is the fact that there was an overlapping of a few days and people who bought in that timeframe are the people lied to. If they would have taken the Website offline the moment it was signed it would be better but I doubt that people wouldn't still be crying about it.

Still I find PGIs solution of "You can keep the MWO stuff for free and get a refund for everything else" more then generouse.
Lets look at the numbers (for what I have)
12k MC = 50$ + 30d Premium = 12$ + Marauders = 20$ + plus the small stuff = 72$
So I can keep 72$ in value and get 50$ on top when I refund. Totaling in 122$ in value.
That is crazy, its more then most full prize games cost.

Oh and about the Epic store preorder release....that isn't for this community but everyone else. Community preorder was for community.

Ravenlord, on 28 August 2019 - 05:35 AM, said:

I'm sure majorly pissing off a big share of your potential buyers for immediate monetary gratification is a GREAT way to ensure longevity and future profits.

I am not so certain that it was even the majority. What was the last number we heard about? 12% refunds?
Also the few people complaining here the loudest aren't the majority, just the loudest.

Edited by Nesutizale, 28 August 2019 - 05:37 AM.

[Grayson Sortek]

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 28 August 2019 - 08:08 AM.
unconstructive

[Ravenlord]

Nesutizale, on 28 August 2019 - 05:38 AM, said:

I am not so certain that it was even the majority. What was the last number we heard about? 12% refunds?
Also the few people complaining here the loudest aren't the majority, just the loudest.

I didn't say majority, I said big share. Also refunds does not equal the number of people not buying because of epic. The people that preordered are arguably those that are the most passionate about the project anyway and as such probably more willing to put up with all kinds on shenanigans.
I didn't preorder because I learned to be cautious when it comes to PGI, and rightfully so as they have proven with this decision. I will not buy on Epic, and only on sale when it finally comes to Steam, and I am certain I am not alone with that.

A decision like this only makes sense if you
a. desperately need that money right now to keep your company afloat
b. think you can eff your buyers over and they will be stupid enough to generously offer you their backside to do the same in return
I know I am not that kind of customer, and again, I am sure I am not alone in this.

Edited by Ravenlord, 28 August 2019 - 12:21 PM.

[Nesutizale]

Ah yah I turned majorly into mayority...

Well we have to wait or better said PGI will have to wait until its sold to see if moveing to Epic was a good idea.
When at the end the loose of people is outweight by either the money Epic is paying or that the sales aren't as bad as some hope they will be then those companies will still made a profit.

Should Epic be successfull It will also create another marketplace that brings in some competition to Steam. Also their methode of getting there is...well it could be better.

You are also forgetting C: Numbers show that you will most likely make more money with the new store.
There are numbers we can't look into unless Epic makes them publicly but publishers can. Thats also what Russ said is also a reason to go to Epic.

Also do you think that A and B are the only reasons for companies like:
2K, Gearbox, Ubisoft, Deepsilver, 4A Games, Sony, Bluebyte and other big companies?
A is definitly not a problem for them and B might be true for some but be fank here, those points are just aimed at PGI. You just want to argue against PGI but miss that you also throw all the other companies into the same bucket.

I think there is a lot more going on in the background that drives the decissions then what we as costumers get to know.

[RickySpanish]

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 28 August 2019 - 08:20 AM.
unconstructive, inappropriate language

[Tesunie]

latinisator, on 28 August 2019 - 02:39 AM, said:

You have to accept the FACT, however, that PGI consciously lied to us, at least during the last days of the preorder because for all we know the EPIC exclusivity was "bargained well and done" back then. Regarding this I understand the "whiners" since PGI should have played with open cards on this one.
But perhaps they were not allowed to by the deals regulations.

Else, I strongly dislike the language some complainers use. Also some comparisons do not work for me (the car thingy).
But you know the saying of Einstein: There are two things without limits: The entitlement of MW:O players and the stupidity of mankind.

I've as of yet to see any proof of the 'fact' that the contract was signed during the Community Preorder period. Regardless, though I do agree a little more openness would have been good, PGI did mention that they where looking at other platforms to sell the game on, though it was hinted that Steam was still on the list. I also believe PGI did have a "terms and conditions are subject to change" notation on the Community Preorder. It sucks that they went away from Steam, in my opinion, but not as horrible as people I think cry about here on the forums. PGI has been more than generous with their refund of the preorder from my understanding.

I also agree that, with business, there is a lot of stuff they can't exactly release to the public. Sometimes via negotiation terms or just "we can't tell you everything going on, because that would become a full time job on top of the full time job we already have". Also, revealing too much can give your business dealings away to your competitors, letting them potentially take advantage of situations. So there are many factors to consider.

Ravenlord, on 28 August 2019 - 05:35 AM, said:

I'm sure majorly pissing off a big share of your potential buyers for immediate monetary gratification is a GREAT way to ensure longevity and future profits.

Which, as a business, would you see better as a money making deal:
1. Releasing a product through a specific vendor and start the release of product with profit without any necessary sales yet, taking additional sales as pure additional profit.
OR
2. Release a product in debt and having to sell though alternative vendors. You now need to sell thousands/millions of copies of the game to break even and create a profit.

Personally, as a business head, option 1 seems far safer to do right out of the gate. It's only a year exclusive deal to start in profit. After that year, it can become expanded to additional vendors for a broader audience. This broader audience will also experience a better game, as after a year more bugs can be worked out of it sooner. There will also be reviews (as a business, hopefully positive ones on the product) which will help motivate these additional "year later" purchases.

Number 2 may seem more appealing to a select few, depending upon the sale of the product to have it breach profit to have it on the vendor of your choice, but option 1 is the obvious better choice selection from a business standpoint from what I can see.

Nesutizale, on 28 August 2019 - 05:38 AM, said:

If they would have taken the Website offline the moment it was signed it would be better but I doubt that people wouldn't still be crying about it.

If they had taken down the website for MW5, it probably would have caused a mixed reaction. You'd have those who would have panicked thinking that the game was no longer going to be launched and that PGI was going out of business ("the sky is falling!") (a group of people would have probably would have been congratulating themselves with the "destruction of our eternal enemy PGI" as well), those who would have been thinking PGI was ditching the project and demanding refunds or claiming that PGI was going to steal your money and go out like how IGP did, or a group who would see the website "crashing" as a failure of PGI's, a show of their ineptitude, and another reason to "not back PGI". Then you'd have the group who would be wondering what was going on, and asking if the game was still going to be released.

Then, after the website went back up, you'd still have people complaining exactly as we are now, with no exception. So, in the end, I don't think turning off the website while "negotiating with Epic" would have been a good idea for PGI and would have just probably caused undo panic among the community.

I have found, with this community, PGI is often in the "bad if they do, bad if they don't" and they are just always "bad" no matter what they do.

Nesutizale, on 28 August 2019 - 05:38 AM, said:

Still I find PGIs solution of "You can keep the MWO stuff for free and get a refund for everything else" more then generouse.
Lets look at the numbers (for what I have)
12k MC = 50$ + 30d Premium = 12$ + Marauders = 20$ + plus the small stuff = 72$
So I can keep 72$ in value and get 50$ on top when I refund. Totaling in 122$ in value.
That is crazy, its more then most full prize games cost.

And I wanted to pull this out as an "exactly". This is what we've really gotten to anyone who asked for a refund. In your package alone (presuming your math is correct), you got basically $72 worth of stuff for free with the MW5 game. When you asked for a refund, you'd get $72 worth of stuff FOR FREE. I mean, that's nothing to sneeze at in my opinion. I can't think of how much better PGI could have done this without giving you more free stuff for asking for a refund (which would have been crazy).