110 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

FupDup, on 27 August 2019 - 12:26 PM, said:

I think something important to clarify about this whole debate is what people mean when they say "balancing." Many people on the interwebs think that balancing means everything has the same DPS, range, ammo, etc. I'm assuming that the COD developer guy is using this definition. I think that definition is pants.

I define balance as every item/gun/character/etc having its role/niche where it is viable such that nothing is useless and you can do good with anything as long as you use it properly (i.e. you shouldn't expect to do well bringing a shotgun to a long range sniper war, but if you ambush people up close then you should wreck face).

high power needs to come with high cost.

take the erll, one would think a weapon that can reach out do a lot of damage and fire limitlessly should have a weakness, and it does in the form of heat. however used en masse you can really pen down an enemy formation. the limitations they have are not sufficient to warrant their higher power. lasers in general should be one of the weakest weapons in the game (second only to homing weapons) yet they are the most meta.

thats an example of something done wrong, atms are a good example of one done right. they are very strong in a very narrow range band thus have a major disadvantage. but when used right they just rip mechs to shreds.

with that in mind i kind of think that er lasers should be damage limited up close, a shallow curve with a max damage spike about the range rating for the weapon. ppcs have hard dead zones and have the added disadvantage of needing to lead targets. so they should be stronger than lasers but weaker than weapons that use ammo. homing weapons should be the least effective.

thats how you balance mwo. or release the server side and let modders fix it.

Edited by LordNothing, 27 August 2019 - 05:00 PM.

[FupDup]

LordNothing, on 27 August 2019 - 04:02 PM, said:

high power needs to come with high cost.

take the erll, one would think a weapon that can reach out do a lot of damage and fire limitlessly should have a weakness, and it does in the form of heat. however used en masse you can really pen down an enemy formation. the limitations they have are not sufficient to warrant their higher power. lasers in general should be one of the weakest weapons in the game yet they are the most meta.

thats an example of something done wrong, atms are a good example of one done right. they are very strong in a very narrow range band thus have a major disadvantage. but when used right they just rip mechs to shreds.

with that in mind i kind of think that er lasers should be damage limited up close, a shallow curve with a max damage spike about the range rating for the weapon. ppcs have hard dead zones and have the added disadvantage of needing to lead targets. so they should be stronger than lasers but weaker than weapons that use ammo. homing weapons should be the least effective.

thats how you balance mwo. or release the server side and let modders fix it.

In this particular example the ERLL has been pretty strongly nerfed for both factions. It's not an issue at all, at least not in my filthy casual pug queue anecdotal experiences. If it's an issue in CW (lol CW) then that's an issue with the particular map design of that mode. Definitely not a QP issue like ever unless the MM decides to randomly put a bunch of ERLL mechs on one team on Polar.

For snipey snipes I'd rather take a Clan ERPPC HMN/VGL/NVA/SMN than an ERLL boat.

Edited by FupDup, 27 August 2019 - 04:09 PM.

[LordNothing]

FupDup, on 27 August 2019 - 04:06 PM, said:

In this particular example the ERLL has been pretty strongly nerfed for both factions. It's not an issue at all, at least not in my filthy casual pug queue anecdotal experiences. If it's an issue in CW (lol CW) then that's an issue with the particular map design of that mode. Definitely not a QP issue like ever unless the MM decides to randomly put a bunch of ERLL mechs on one team on Polar.

For snipey snipes I'd rather take a Clan ERPPC HMN/VGL/NVA/SMN than an ERLL boat.

cerppcs should be the best energy weapon in the game, and they are in certain situations and builds (warhawk *drools*)

[Feral Clown]

FupDup, on 27 August 2019 - 04:06 PM, said:

In this particular example the ERLL has been pretty strongly nerfed for both factions. It's not an issue at all, at least not in my filthy casual pug queue anecdotal experiences. If it's an issue in CW (lol CW) then that's an issue with the particular map design of that mode. Definitely not a QP issue like ever unless the MM decides to randomly put a bunch of ERLL mechs on one team on Polar.

For snipey snipes I'd rather take a Clan ERPPC HMN/VGL/NVA/SMN than an ERLL boat.

If they can't be taken to quick play and work reliably are they really in a good place though?

[FupDup]

Feral Clown, on 27 August 2019 - 05:10 PM, said:

If they can't be taken to quick play and work reliably are they really in a good place though?

I didn't say that they were in a good place. IMO I think that the nerfs probably went a little too far.

[Feral Clown]

FupDup, on 27 August 2019 - 05:11 PM, said:

I didn't say that they were in a good place. IMO I think that the nerfs probably went a little too far.

So I'd say it is an issue then.

[FupDup]

Feral Clown, on 27 August 2019 - 05:25 PM, said:

So I'd say it is an issue then.

When I said "it's not an issue" I was referring to Lord Nothing's fear about the weapon being too powerful.

Being a little underpowered is certainly an issue as well but it has a much lower negative impact than something being OP. Ignoring an undertuned weapon is easy by just not equipping it for the time being. Ignoring an OP weapon is impossible because even if you don't use it your enemy might.

[OmniFail]

Feral Clown, on 27 August 2019 - 05:10 PM, said:

If they can't be taken to quick play and work reliably are they really in a good place though?

^LRMz

[Feral Clown]

OmniFail, on 27 August 2019 - 05:43 PM, said:

^LRMz

I don't think you really know how to MWOz! I think you just talk like you do! If you don't know how to MWOz, then don't talk about MWOz.

[OmniFail]

Feral Clown, on 27 August 2019 - 05:46 PM, said:

I don't think you really know how to MWOz! I think you just talk like you do! If you don't know how to MWOz, then don't talk about MWOz.

^Triggered by LRMz

[The pessimistic optimist]

TheMurf, on 27 August 2019 - 08:41 AM, said:

Modern Warfare MP Design Director: Balancing Everything Kind of Boils the Fun Out of Things

Just saying

Stop smoking meth it bad for you and rots your teeth

[FupDup]

OmniFail, on 27 August 2019 - 05:43 PM, said:

^LRMz

I can generally do fine with a humble LRM40 Vulture, so no.

[Feral Clown]

OmniFail, on 27 August 2019 - 05:58 PM, said:

^Triggered by LRMz

I don't think you really know how to MWOz! I think you just talk like you do! If you don't know how to MWOz, then don't talk about MWOz.

[The pessimistic optimist]

FupDup, on 27 August 2019 - 06:06 PM, said:

I can generally do fine with a humble LRM40 Vulture, so no.

Run the same love the RV with lrm 40

[GeminiWolf]

TheMurf, on 27 August 2019 - 08:41 AM, said:

Modern Warfare MP Design Director: Balancing Everything Kind of Boils the Fun Out of Things

Just saying

That is the core to my chief complaint I have made on many occasions. But the younger generation are stuck on everything being fair and scoff at the notion that life is not fair.

[FupDup]

SirSmokes, on 27 August 2019 - 06:08 PM, said:

Run the same love the RV with lrm 40

I do it on the Prime for those juicy missile quirks.

[The pessimistic optimist]

FupDup, on 27 August 2019 - 06:15 PM, said:

I do it on the Prime for those juicy missile quirks.

I run 4 set of lrm 10 with artemis on my RV to get LRM 40 why that one worth doing on RV a tag two heavy med laser one er med laser.

Edited by SirSmokes, 27 August 2019 - 06:21 PM.

[Khobai]

LordNothing, on 27 August 2019 - 05:03 PM, said:

cerppcs should be the best energy weapon in the game, and they are in certain situations and builds (warhawk *drools*)

no they really shouldnt be the best energy weapon in the game.

there should be no single best energy weapon in the game.

every weapon should have its own unique niche and its own advantages and drawbacks.

thats the entire problem with er lasers. they are too well-rounded with no significant disadvantages. especially when theyre combined with overpowered clan double heatsinks.

GeminiWolf, on 27 August 2019 - 06:13 PM, said:

That is the core to my chief complaint I have made on many occasions. But the younger generation are stuck on everything being fair and scoff at the notion that life is not fair.

And if games were life you might be right. However games are not life. As such games shouldnt be based off life.

Games are highly controlled simulations where every variable can be set and managed. When a game offers players a series of choices, and one of those choices is obviously better than all other choices, it defeats the entire purpose of offering choices. In a game all choices MUST be relatively equal by necessity or the balance of the whole simulation is disrupted.

However variables in real life cannot be controlled so easily. Its far easier and more productive to change how you live your life than to expect the rules of life to change for you. Thats what young people arnt able to do; they expect everything to adapt around them instead of adapting themselves.

Edited by Khobai, 27 August 2019 - 09:02 PM.

[GeminiWolf]

Khobai, on 27 August 2019 - 08:44 PM, said:

no they really shouldnt be the best energy weapon in the game.

there should be no single best energy weapon in the game.

every weapon should have its own unique niche and its own advantages and drawbacks.

thats the entire problem with er lasers. they are too well-rounded with no significant disadvantages. especially when theyre combined with overpowered clan double heatsinks.




And if games were life you might be right. However games are not life.

Games are highly controlled simulations where every variable can be managed. When a game offers players a series of choices, and one of those choices is obviously better than all other choices, it defeats the entire purpose of offering choices.

You are a Millennial, aren't you?

[Feral Clown]

Khobai, on 27 August 2019 - 08:44 PM, said:

no they really shouldnt be the best energy weapon in the game.

there should be no single best energy weapon in the game.

every weapon should have its own unique niche and its own advantages and drawbacks.

thats the entire problem with er lasers. they are too well-rounded with no significant disadvantages. especially when theyre combined with overpowered clan double heatsinks.



And if games were life you might be right. However games are not life. As such games shouldnt be based off life.

Games are highly controlled simulations where every variable can be set and managed. When a game offers players a series of choices, and one of those choices is obviously better than all other choices, it defeats the entire purpose of offering choices. In a game all choices MUST be relatively equal by necessity or the balance of the whole simulation is disrupted.

However variables in real life cannot be controlled so easily. Its far easier and more productive to change how you live your life than to expect the rules of life to change for you. Thats what young people arnt able to do; they expect everything to adapt around them instead of adapting themselves.

LOL.

Clan peeps for one are not the best energy weapon in the game.

Clan er's especially large have their drawbacks and they are not even in a good space.

Clan heatsinks are not just better on their own, Clan ferro and endo are better as per lore, and if they weren't guys like you would be crying and bringing it up.

Finally players are offered many, many choices in this game which you are probably not aware since you don't play the game.