101 replies to this topic

[Karnal Soul]

Feral Clown, on 04 September 2019 - 01:07 PM, said:

Please take a minute and step back, take a breath and consider that top guys out there have really strong survival rates, wlr, kdr and usually the high avg ms to go with all that.

There are certainly times when an assault may not put out huge numbers, but tank well and do a great job helping out the team.  However what you are describing, tying up five mechs and putting out 50 damage is generally not going to fall within that scenario.  You'd be dead too quick for that to be a win.  

ATMs inherently due to their dead zone and that they require user to get locks are not a front line weapon of choice.  Scorches, Supernova's and others are best used second line running ATMs.  Think of it this way, if you stay close by your team and keep them in your dead zone, chances are you are protecting your dead zone.  

The anti meta stuff is just blah.  I play meta only in the sense I use effective builds.  I have very few mechs that strictly adhere to Grimmechs and a couple that do are just because they end up that way as the best way to build them can be sort of limited (Grinner as an example).  ATM Scorches aren't new either.  Same kind of advantage with the way the launchers are laid out as the Supernova and as a bonus you can make it go faster.   My point really is that playing meta helps people understand and appreciate strong effective builds, giving them a foundation to build mechs properly and branch out.  Hating meta and just doing whatever generally leads to bad wlr, kdr and such.

I never claimed to be good, but as a friend told me a few ago in discord, i can be effective. Dont care about being top or getting there. I like to use builds i come up with, without UTUBE warrioring it. If you want to run META knock yourself out, its not for me. Been using ATM scorch since last july, before that i was using the SNV-A. Almost got the Boiler but didnt like all the missiles HPs being on left torso. I dont just charge out all the time, duh. But if i think moving out will do the job i do it, ill get them firing at me, thats when i get about 300-500dmg with some KMDDs maybe a solo. that gets their attention. then the team can move in when they go and chase the squiirel or the A Hole hitting them in the flank. TACTICS... if its a crap team with tiny gonads that hide, sorry cant sit and hid an entire match ill push out and do my suicide solution, maybe they will grow a pair, maybe they wont. but i dont come here to hide, not afraid to take dmg. but i wont sit with em and cower sorry lol its jsut not in me, those are my 50 pt dmg games usually or less not afraid my ego will take a hit

[Tiy0s]

You clearly seem to be intent on arguing with those of higher skill and knowledge than you in the game, so why even bother by disagreeing with you?

I'm not meaning to insult you, but the amount of people expecting echo chamber posts these days is just mind boggling.

[PhoenixFire55]

Meh. Decent enough troll thread. 4/10. Won't read again.

[Karnal Soul]

JediPanther, on 04 September 2019 - 12:48 PM, said:

Screw atms. Last night in group qeue with five members dropping we saw constant atm9 tag spam. I went to the normal trifox and hardly went a match where I didn't break 250 missile minimal shot down carrying all the ams ammo I could fit on the fox with four ersmls as my only weapon. 20900 ams ammo.

After about two hours we just got sick of it and gave up for the night. I think out of all the matches we only won two.

Effective counter, folks dont wanna waste space on an AMS system, thats not my prob. but i dont jsut run em for OP crap. I dont run them on occasian its my chosen weapon balanced with daka. if folks put one AMS on a mech each, would negate the threat, instead they want PGI to do the work for them i guess. hell i never use tag. that to me is a waste of space when the teams hide most the time anyways, ill shoot around the corner lol.

Edited by Karnal Soul, 04 September 2019 - 01:18 PM.

[K O Z A K]

If you don't care about performance, and won't play stuff that performs well because it's lame or whatever.

Why are you here complaining about performance?

[Kubernetes]

Karnal Soul, on 04 September 2019 - 01:03 PM, said:

Some the posts arent on this point they just say im sucking with them(wish i was omnicient knowing how all do), i dont suck with them lol as i said i can back that up not with just saved end game stats but with people ive fought with.

People lie or misremember. Your stats do not.

Quote

SOLO kills count to me not Kill secures.

FFS, you don't even understand what a solo kill is. You can't get credit for solo unless you secure the kill. Solo = KMDD + kill shot.

You talk a lot, but the vast majority of it consists of lies and nonsense.

[Karnal Soul]

Hazeclaw, on 04 September 2019 - 01:18 PM, said:

If you don't care about performance, and won't play stuff that performs well because it's lame or whatever.

Why are you here complaining about performance?

The bottom line of this post is balance. folsk wont arm to defend against a weapon system, oh well. but giving a weapon a meesley 161m optimal window cuz folks wont arm an AMS yeah i know some cant. if they did this to laswers folks woould be screaming or RACs. or any other weapon system.

[AzureRathalos]

Well, I've got an ATM48 Supernova that I had initially made as a joke, but now has a kill death ratio of 2.01 and an average damage of 521 across 286 games. Here's the results of firsthand experience that people can use if required:

144 homing damage is glorious:
OH, YES IT IS.

It runs incredibly hot:
OH, YES IT DOES.

What kind of DPS is this?
I would say that ATM48 is of the high burst fire variety. You get into the sweet spot, you unload up to two volleys of 48 missiles, but then you are forced to back off and cool down.

Is ATM48 broken?
I don't think so. There's a fair share on advantages and disadvantages to the setup. However, do take note that broken or not, it is a very bad experience for a Light or Medium if they take a full 144 damage hit.

If an enemy runs into your minimum range, you're hooped:
In the case of my Supernova, I have three Clan Small Pulse Lasers as backup weapons in the arms. It allows the mech to put up a bit of a fight, but yes, you are quite hooped.

Running at an ATM boat is the end-all-be-all solution:
Actually, no it isn't. It is true that an ATM boat is at a serious disadvantage if it's on its own, but remember that for better and for worse, this is a team game. There are additional variables to consider. What if the ATM boat is parked beside a brawler? Are you going to run right in to get into minimum range of the boat, only to get into optimum range of the brawler?

Using ATM48 is a bad idea:
*shrug* This depends heavily on the player, their mindset, their playstyle, and the situation at hand, not the build. I made my Supernova as a joke and it's somehow pulled forward as one of my best scoring units ever. For me, after the dust has all settled, nerf or no nerf, it's ended up being a good idea. For some others it may be a good idea. For other others, it can end up being a bad idea.

If you see a quad AMS Corsair, your ATM boat is good as dead:
Yes. Anything with AMS will shut down ATMs pretty badly, but the AMS Boat will laugh at any kind of missile boat. I own that Corsair, so I know first hand from both sides of the table.

EDIT: Typos.

Edited by AzureRathalos, 04 September 2019 - 01:41 PM.

[Karnal Soul]

Kubernetes, on 04 September 2019 - 01:19 PM, said:

People lie or misremember.  Your stats do not.
FFS, you don't even understand what a solo kill is.  You can't get credit for solo unless you secure the kill.  Solo = KMDD + kill shot.
You talk a lot, but the vast majority of it consists of lies and nonsense.

wow do you even read or are assumptions your norm? remember what assumptions are. I KNOW WHAT THEY ARE YOU MORON. do you? kill secure is a killing blow solo is self explanatory, but i guess u need it explained, so go hump another leg troll. I mean wow you get the STOOPUHHD quote of the hour, next?

Edited by Karnal Soul, 04 September 2019 - 01:26 PM.

[BackShot]

Hmmm, hmmm, so what do we have here, let me see...

73 percentile with negative win and kill ratio okay

using atms on a slow fatass not jumping mech okay

even pushing with it and claiming this is a one salvo weapon cause of the zero damage zone okay

and still able to deal games with 1000 + damages with all this OKAY ????

are you really crying on the recent atm nerf dude or actively calling a real deserved nerf ?


Edit : Oh and i forgot about the "i use two max skilled uav cause i am a team player"; really dude ? you play those uavs for the team ? not because your damage rely exclusively on locks and are short ranged ?
this guy is just LOL

Edit 2 : oh yeah thanks Ash for remind me about the "rac2 are broken" part, i got a pro tip for you dude : try to use covers.

Edited by BackShot, 04 September 2019 - 01:35 PM.

[Tiy0s]

Karnal Soul, on 04 September 2019 - 01:24 PM, said:

wow do you even read or are assumptions your norm? remember what assumptions are. I KNOW WHAT THEY ARE YOU MORON. do you? kill secure is a killing blow solo is self explanatory, but i guess u need it explained, so go hump another leg troll. I mean wow you get the dumb quote of the hour, next?

Karnal please step back and consider.

You came here with an incorrect statement and got unhappy when people told you that your statement was incorrect. When they brought more evidence, you got more defensive and are now calling people morons for disagreeing with you. Your stance on ATMs is wrong, people have come to you with mathematical evidence as to why it is wrong. You cannot refute that. So please just cut your losses and move on.

[justcallme A S H]

Ah the forums ..

User comes along and says RAC2s are broken.

User doesn't provide any actual evidence to support said claim.

User only provides unfounded standpoints.

Sounds like a typical Forum post.

[K O Z A K]

Karnal Soul, on 04 September 2019 - 01:21 PM, said:

The bottom line of this post is balance. folsk wont arm to defend against a weapon system, oh well. but giving a weapon a meesley 161m optimal window cuz folks wont arm an AMS yeah i know some cant. if they did this to laswers folks woould be screaming or RACs. or any other weapon system.

All weapons in this game have limitations, and counters. RACs are one of the easiest weapons to defend against. Lasers have been nerfed into the ground compared to what they once were. ATMs if anything require nerfs, you're free to disagree, but stats clearly show their performance if used correctly. If you choose to continue to use them incorrectly, you will perform poorly, sorry but that's life, screw drivers are not good at putting in nails

[Karnal Soul]

BackShot, on 04 September 2019 - 01:26 PM, said:

Hmmm, hmmm, so what do we have here, let me see...

73 percentile with negative win and kill ratio okay

using atms on a slow fatass not jumping mech okay

even pushing with it and claiming this is a one salvo weapon cause of the zero damage zone okay

and still able to deal games with 1000 + damages with all this OKAY ????

are you really crying on the recent atm nerf dude or actively calling a real deserved nerf ?

LMFAO its called being a team player not caring about stats. im a **** shot with lasers, i write celtic symbols troll. Plus i wont META sorry. Im OK with ballistics. didnt use ATMs until over a year in game. as tier 5 i went against folks who knew the game at tier 1 and at tier 1 im finding tier dont mean much anymore, too many meta wh*res around who lrmed their way up. Love how trolls take a point about balance and try and make their pee pee bigger, but fail miserably. but hey trolls are entertaining in their stupidity. im dead sure you are a selfish player and blame the team for a loss, not your own desire to screw them for your own gain. next?

[Kubernetes]

Karnal Soul, on 04 September 2019 - 01:24 PM, said:

wow do you even read or are assumptions your norm?

I don't need to assume anything because your stats tell the story. You average around one kill every two games. That's pretty bad.

Quote

I KNOW WHAT THEY ARE YOU MORON. do you? kill secure is a killing blow solo is self explanatory, but i guess u need it explained, so go hump another leg troll. I mean wow you get the dumb quote of the hour, next?

You actually don't understand, and typing in caps doesn't change that. You said you prefer solos over killing blows (kill secures), but the killing blow is a prerequisite for a solo kill. A solo kill means you got both the KMDD and the killing blow.

And again: Please define for us "the meta." You keep talking about it as if you know what it is.

Edited by Kubernetes, 04 September 2019 - 01:39 PM.

[BackShot]

Karnal Soul, on 04 September 2019 - 01:30 PM, said:

LMFAO its called being a team player not caring about stats. im a **** shot with lasers, i write celtic symbols troll. Plus i wont META sorry. Im OK with ballistics. didnt use ATMs until over a year in game. as tier 5 i went against folks who knew the game at tier 1 and at tier 1 im finding tier dont mean much anymore, too many meta wh*res around who lrmed their way up. Love how trolls take a point about balance and try and make their pee pee bigger, but fail miserably. but hey trolls are entertaining in their stupidity. im dead sure you are a selfish player and blame the team for a loss, not your own desire to screw them for your own gain. next?

well, if we compare our win/loose ratio, it looks like my way to help the team is way way more effective than yours...

Edit: so you are a new kind of team player that actively choose to not use the best builds( what you call meta ), to not use his own build at his best ( pushing in your own zero damage zone ). and as a result the players in your team loose more than they win.

Edited by BackShot, 04 September 2019 - 01:54 PM.

[Karnal Soul]

Kubernetes, on 04 September 2019 - 01:33 PM, said:

I don't need to assume anything because your stats tell the story.  You average around one kill every two games.  That's pretty bad.
You actually don't understand, and typing in caps doesn't change that.  You said you prefer solos over killing blows (kill secures), but the killing blow is a prerequisite for a solo kill.  A solo kill means you got both the KMDD and the killing blow.
And again: Please define for us "the meta." You keep talking about it as if you know what it is.

72% win ratio, ill take that, my ego isnt hurt nor helped by this bastardization of BT. if this is what you strive for i feel sorry for you. i like blowing stuff up , pure and simple. Im going to guess maybe you think you ARE the team then blame the team as well. get some good teams get some REALLY bad ones, its Morons Warring Online, what do you expect. i never have checked my stats lmfao cuz i DONT CARE, honestly figured it was more like 30% wins and about 1-5 KDR, meh, try again to diss me, you are failing like a troll always will. Caps emphasize, or did you go to a city school and only got a liberal education? yep my typing skills sucks, thats what happens when you refine them in the army after getting hurt in central america and stuck behind a desk for far too long as infantry.

BackShot, on 04 September 2019 - 01:50 PM, said:

well, if we compare our win/loose ratio, it looks like my way to help the team is way way more effective than yours...

ugh wrong one but oh well

Edited by Karnal Soul, 04 September 2019 - 01:55 PM.

[Kubernetes]

You don't have a 72% win ratio. Look at your chart closely.

Quote

Im going to guess

Maybe you shouldn't.

Again: What Is The Meta?

[AzureRathalos]

Win ratio is actually not the best thing to calculate overall player performance on:
You could do amazingly in a round, but everyone else around you dies.
You could be absolute garbage, but matchmaker keeps putting you on teams that win.

Edited by AzureRathalos, 04 September 2019 - 02:02 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Karnal Soul, on 04 September 2019 - 01:51 PM, said:

72% win ratio, ill take that,

0.9 isn't 72%. You can't do even simple math, let alone have any clue about game balance.