126 replies to this topic

[Siegegun]

Prototelis, on 07 October 2019 - 10:42 AM, said:

You literally did, I quoted it.

The rest of the sentence is mostly correct; that part is not and doesn't drive your point any further.



No, it is not AI. It does not adapt, react, or display any intelligent behavior.

See my edits Prot, I apologized, I did not proof read my statements. my bad.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Prototelis, on 07 October 2019 - 10:45 AM, said:

Do you understand that "Game AI" is a defined term with criteria?

Basically it doesn't sit there doing nothing and yes it so simple it really is not a AI but it meets it technically not really at all so I'm agreeing

[Siegegun]

SirSmokes, on 07 October 2019 - 10:44 AM, said:

Do you under stand the word rudimentary it's still a AI just so simple it can barley be called one yes

Prot is correct SirSmokes. There are criteria that has to be met for something to be considered AI, and our awesome VIP does NOT meet it. Effectively it needs to take in input, make a decision on said input, and react. If it is just blind following nodes, and taking in zero information, and not making any decisions based on said information then it is not AI. As he said earlier then it just a stupid bot. "Sense, think, act".

https://www.gamedev....-game-ai-r4942/

[Prototelis]

SirSmokes, on 07 October 2019 - 10:48 AM, said:

Basically it doesn't sit there doing nothing and yes it so simple it really is not a AI but it meets it technically not really at all so I'm agreeing

Uhg dude.

Rudimentary;

adjective




involving or limited to basic principles.

Artificial Intelligence in video games;
https://en.wikipedia..._in_video_games


In video games, artificial intelligence (AI) is used to generate responsive, adaptive or intelligent behaviors primarily in non-player characters (NPCs)

Movement isn't a basic principle of AI.

Is the ******* ball in PONG AI because it moves?


(edit: **** it, I can't fix the formatting lawl)

Edited by Prototelis, 07 October 2019 - 11:19 AM.

[Siegegun]

OZHomerOZ, on 07 October 2019 - 10:30 AM, said:

To me AI is reactive, yes?
It reacts to events, like FPS AI uses cover when shot at.

The VIP Atlas seemed to just follow a path and was non reactive to any stimulus.
You could shoot it block it but no reaction.

So I think it was scripted.

An AI doesn't even have to do that much OZ to make it an AI. My first AI was a simple Finite State Machine AI, that did not take cover or do anything fancy, but it sensed players, decided on how to attack them based on distance and weapons, then attacked them. But yes AI "reacts".

As I said earlier it being scripted does not matter or have anything to do with whether it is AI or not. A lot of games use scripts for AI.

[Siegegun]

Prototelis, on 07 October 2019 - 10:52 AM, said:

Uhg dude.

Rudimentary;

adjective[color=#878787 !important]
[/color]





involving or limited to basic principles.

Artificial Intelligence in video games;
https://en.wikipedia..._in_video_games


In video games, artificial intelligence (AI) is used to generate responsive, adaptive or intelligent behaviors primarily in non-player characters (NPCs)

Movement isn't a basic principle of AI.

Is the ******* ball in PONG AI because it moves?


(edit: **** it, I can't fix the formatting lawl)

LOL I couldn't fix my formatting either... all messed up for some reason.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Siegegun, on 07 October 2019 - 10:58 AM, said:

An AI doesn't even have to do that much OZ to make it an AI. My first AI was a simple Finite State Machine AI, that did not take cover or do anything fancy, but it sensed players, decided on how to attack them based on distance and weapons, then attacked them. But yes AI "reacts".

As I said earlier it being scripted does not matter or have anything to do with whether it is AI or not. A lot of games use scripts for AI.

Ok, before people get hung up over the definition of AI, here's the thing... in Crysis 2, the enemies wouldn't even respond to a shotgun blast that came from the next room. They screamed and ran like headless chicken while rarely shooting back when the game was first released and barely improved. F.E.A.R on the other hand, had very good enemies that could flip over a table to create cover, flank and toss grenades, take cover and not move in a single file, jump over obstacles, perform melee attacks, etc.,

Do you want Crysis 2 "AI" or F.E.A.R AI?

[Prototelis]

FEAR AI is built from the ground up to give the impression that it is really smart; but is actually about on par with video game AI of the time. It relies very heavily on scripted sequences. Still a really clever implementation that needs to be looked at more.

I can't say I've experienced the same thing in Crysis 2 as you're describing, I remember them being damn near psychic.

The real issue with deploying bots is that the overhead (node placement, decision tree, etc) is insane, on top of the difficulty of getting them to behave like a player would (shielding, soaking, poking, etc)

Edited by Prototelis, 09 October 2019 - 07:50 PM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Prototelis, on 09 October 2019 - 07:48 PM, said:

FEAR AI is built from the ground up to give the impression that it is really smart; but is actually about on par with video game AI of the time. It relies very heavily on scripted sequences. Still a really clever implementation that needs to be looked at more.

I can't say I've experienced the same thing in Crysis 2 as you're describing, I remember them being damn near psychic.

The real issue with deploying bots is that the overhead (node placement, decision tree, etc) is insane, on top of the difficulty of getting them to behave like a player would (shielding, soaking, poking, etc)

The thing that I love about the AI in F.E.A.R is that, even though they're scripted to behave in read-able patterns, there were a lot of patterns. I mean A LOT. I could do the same fight twice against those invisible, wall hugging ninja assassins and the outcome would be different w.r.t how I'd manage to kill them 'cause they were really agile and somehow "knew" when to go invisible.

The thing with Crysis 2 AI is that if you abuse the suit powers a lot, they derp out. It's ok if you shoot and move 'cause they'd keep track of you but once you start abusing your suit powers, they'd go into panic mode and literally turn their back to you.

We could, for the sake of simplicity, have Quake 3 level of AI that would just shoot and do that well which can be used in MWO. Tag certain parts of the map as vantage points where bots with long range weapons would camp and it will make the game repetitive but at least they'd shoot better. After that, we can worry about making the AI spread damage like a top player would. Then again, we'll see what the AI is like once MW5 is playable. Then we can know for sure if AI would be decent in MWO or not.

[Prototelis]

FRAGTAST1C, on 09 October 2019 - 08:11 PM, said:

We could, for the sake of simplicity, have Quake 3 level of AI

No, not without a lot of work. Quake bots follow nodes in arena maps that are considerably smaller and a lot less complex than MWO maps.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Prototelis, on 09 October 2019 - 08:27 PM, said:

No, not without a lot of work. Quake bots follow nodes in arena maps that are considerably smaller and a lot less complex than MWO maps.

Yeah, that was a bad e.g., actually 'cause apart for being node-following bots, they'd decide when to pick up those power-ups and actively use the jump pads to change elevation (very abusable when you consider Xaero's behaviour in his map) but I was just referring to shooting back at priority targets. Quake 3 bots would gang up on the Flag-carrier rather than just shoot at the closest enemy.

I was merely referring to the accuracy and shooting at priority targets 'cause the VIP Atlas was bad at both of those aspects. Then the movement pattern for regular AI bots would need to be worked on. Maybe just create a NASCAR path and have them go round and round

[Drenath]

I'd love to see the entire Faction Warfare system converted into a co-op PVE campaign against bots of increasing skill levels.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Prototelis, on 09 October 2019 - 08:27 PM, said:

No, not without a lot of work. Quake bots follow nodes in arena maps that are considerably smaller and a lot less complex than MWO maps.

and the MW4 Bots ?and what with the mWO Turret "AI" ? react of players ..

and to the License ...first MWO was planed as MW5 , only IGP gave the Money and say ...no singleplayer, only Multiplayer games with micromanagment have a Future to the gaming market , thats has nothing to do with MS or Mechassault or only PvP ...IGP seeing not the Future for a PvE mode and after the end of the Couple with IGP ,and the Transverse disaster and internal wars (seeing the reddit bans) PGI has not longer the programming crew for the Basic Stucture of new Features or bring back old Features..to many Folks make her own career , manys goes to other Companys like Relic, and PGI not found new Guys with long Years of exoperience with Cryengine of the Canadian Job Market, the most all bind in other companys...Simple AI is like IK a basic Feature of Gameengine like UE or Cry ...when you have experience to bring it in without Problems.Now the Market is full og Guy and Girls with experience in teh UE 4 and better times for a UE 4 based Game.

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 11 October 2019 - 02:15 PM.

[Prototelis]

Uhm, MW4 AI was terrible lol.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

yes ...was not really a clever AI , was scrips with modified Parameters and a Terraingrid for movement ...good AI is a product of Time for new Games like "Last of us " ...MWO was build for fast gaming without a Lot of work for Storyelemets and writing a story or Campaign ,and writing of a Simple "AI" for a game with a Future as only Multiplayergame what IGP seeing (Like EA with SW battlefront ).This pure stupid PVP only Days now most over, storys and good scripting now back for good Games.

[Prototelis]

Uhm homie, the most successful games on the planet are all PVP or have a PVP element.

Edited by Prototelis, 11 October 2019 - 03:06 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

Prototelis, on 11 October 2019 - 03:05 PM, said:

Uhm homie, the most successful games on the planet are all PVP or have a PVP element.

You're like, the most active commenter on forum as of late. What's up with that. Oh wait, I just realized who are. holy ****, how did I not see that before.

[Prototelis]

(f)unemployment.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Prototelis, on 11 October 2019 - 03:05 PM, said:

Uhm homie, the most successful games on the planet are all PVP or have a PVP element.

Big Mistake from your side ...and how many Games with no Pvp comes in the last Years ? is Horizon :Zero Dawn not a sucessfull game without PVP ? the Silent Hunter Games not sucessfull without PvP, Fallout ,Skyrim,Witcher,Last of us,God of War, Assassins Creed Odyseey,Civilization IV???? ... ...when all make PvP games ,most games with PvP a sucess

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 12 October 2019 - 09:51 PM.

[Prototelis]

Fortnite, PubG, and MW games have made more money than all of those titles stacked together.