39 replies to this topic

[Carpenocturn]

If you listen to Baradul's advice from 2.50-3.10 you get the most salient points of warfare

Don't wait for the enemy
Take the high ground

So many games this week have been "Wait for the enemy, hold this defensive position, let them make the first mistake"* - and these games have always ended with being surrounded and hounded down.
Waiting lets the enemy choose, where, when and how the fight takes place, all in their favor.

Polar highlands, canyon network and mining collective games have been nightmares of moving to the hollows and gullies near the middle of the map and staying there while the enemy move around unobserved and uncontested and then blasting everyone.

[color=#222222]Come on people, take the initiative, find the enemy, probe their lines, break their cohesion and mop them up.[/color]



*You've already made it by giving up the initiative.

Edited by Carpenocturn, 26 September 2019 - 02:33 PM.

[Prototelis]

Lol, no.

[Vxheous]

Carpenocturn, on 26 September 2019 - 02:32 PM, said:

If you listen to Baradul's advice...

Edited by Vxheous, 26 September 2019 - 03:25 PM.

[Carpenocturn]

Wow, 2 unreasoning, visceral reactions straight from the primate part of the brain. Would you care to elaborate on why his advice and my plea are not sound?

[Prototelis]

1. Highground doesn't = win. It is in many cases, on many maps, and at certain times a dumb ******* place to be.
2. Charging into a controlled lane is ******* stupid. Setting up and waiting for some impatient knob to yolo over is always smarter. Stupid blind aggression is not a best practice.


Don't listen to Baradul. The guy is a content creator; he creates content. That doesn't mean all of it is good advice.

[L057FUNC710N]

Baradul is a nice fella.

His approach and views on the game however are very narrow and can summed up by screaming 'pusha, pusha, pusha' into your mic.

[Apache1990]

Kol Koontz, on 26 September 2019 - 04:56 PM, said:

Baradul is a nice fella.

His approach and views on the game however are very narrow and can summed up by screaming 'pusha, pusha, pusha' into your mic.

To be fair, that's generally a perfectly good way to get a win in solo QP, assuming your team is reasonably grouped up when it starts to move in.

[Prototelis]

Apache1990, on 26 September 2019 - 04:58 PM, said:

To be fair, that's generally a perfectly good way to get a win in solo QP, assuming your team is reasonably grouped up when it starts to move in.

To be fair; It actually depends on the circumstances

Pushing into a controlled lane is almost always stupid.

[Carpenocturn]

Prototelis, on 26 September 2019 - 05:06 PM, said:

To be fair; It actually depends on the circumstances

Pushing into a controlled lane is almost always stupid.

I generally agree with you on that.

If you intend to stand still and wait for someone to yolo that lane however is what I am arguing against. That other player, seeing the controlled lane and you facing it would likely think, "Nope". Leave you staring into nothing, not scouting, not taking the initiative, and move somewhere else that you are not scouting, not taking the initiative, like the high ground to your flanks or rear.

Baradul is a nice fella it's true I would say that your comment, [color=#F0FF5A]Kol Koontz[/color], is even narrower than your expression of his. He say's more about how and why he plays the way he does in his video's than just "pusha", indicating a broad understanding of map layout, deployment and strategies. Much more than, "Just hold up here and wait till they make a mistake."*

*Which is the first mistake, surrendering the initiative

[Prototelis]

Carpenocturn, on 26 September 2019 - 05:54 PM, said:

I generally agree with you on that.

If you intend to stand still and wait for someone to yolo that lane however is what I am arguing against.

Map control and trading are best practices. NSR is not.

[L057FUNC710N]

Carpenocturn, on 26 September 2019 - 05:54 PM, said:

I generally agree with you on that.

If you intend to stand still and wait for someone to yolo that lane however is what I am arguing against. That other player, seeing the controlled lane and you facing it would likely think, "Nope". Leave you staring into nothing, not scouting, not taking the initiative, and move somewhere else that you are not scouting, not taking the initiative, like the high ground to your flanks or rear.

Baradul is a nice fella it's true I would say that your comment, [color=#F0FF5A]Kol Koontz[/color], is even narrower than your expression of his. He say's more about how and why he plays the way he does in his video's than just "pusha", indicating a broad understanding of map layout, deployment and strategies. Much more than, "Just hold up here and wait till they make a mistake."*

*Which is the first mistake, surrendering the initiative

He says a lot of things.

He has not done anything outside of yolo queue however. Given that it is fairly safe to say his understanding is pretty limited or 'narrow'.

[Carpenocturn]

Prototelis, on 26 September 2019 - 06:18 PM, said:

Map control and trading are best practices. NSR is not.

Map control cannot be gained or maintained without eyes on the target of some sort. UAV = highest ground advantage, sky in this case. High ground = high ground advantage. Same level = no advantage disadvantage = attrition. low ground = no advantage.

I take it you mean Nascar(NSR), just a few letters more and no one would be in doubt?

Trading is usualy attrition warfare and strikes me as suboptimal.
One players does 100 damage all over anothers mech and the other player does 100 damage all over theirs = no result.
One player does 100 damage to the other players mechs back however = result

Nascar is not what I am referring to as I would hope a resoning individual would conclude as this refers to both teams chasing each others tails until one team chews the other teams slow movers down and then finishes off the remainder.

[Carpenocturn]

Kol Koontz, on 26 September 2019 - 06:43 PM, said:

He says a lot of things.

He has not done anything outside of yolo queue however. Given that it is fairly safe to say his understanding is pretty limited or 'narrow'.

Also true though I think controlling the high ground and keeping the initiative are maxims of warfare regardless of the game mode.

[Apache1990]

Carpenocturn, on 26 September 2019 - 06:44 PM, said:

Trading is usualy attrition warfare and strikes me as suboptimal.
One players does 100 damage all over anothers mech and the other player does 100 damage all over theirs = no result.
One player does 100 damage to the other players mechs back however = result

That's not what he means by trading. It's supposed to be you poke out and do damage, and take less damage in return (preferably none, but out-trading the opponent is also profitable).

Or trading similar total damage, but doing yours to one location, while spreading the return fire.

Edited by Apache1990, 26 September 2019 - 07:22 PM.

[Prototelis]

Carpenocturn, on 26 September 2019 - 06:44 PM, said:

Map control cannot be gained or maintained without eyes on the target

"Eyes on target" is not the same thing as "W key straight the **** into the red dorito when there isn't a clear advantage"

You don't need to be able to see the enemy team at all times to control terrain.

[L057FUNC710N]

Carpenocturn, on 26 September 2019 - 07:04 PM, said:

Also true though I think controlling the high ground and keeping the initiative are maxims of warfare regardless of the game mode.

Yeah...but the how's and best practices are not solidified in yolo queue. Sorry if you can't understand or accept this.

[Carpenocturn]

Apache1990, on 26 September 2019 - 07:22 PM, said:

That's not what he means by trading. It's supposed to be you poke out and do damage, and take less damage in return (preferably none, but out-trading the opponent is also profitable).

Or trading similar total damage, but doing yours to one location, while spreading the return fire.

Yes. I did obliquelly refer to that in the following lines

[color=#959595]One players does 100 damage all over anothers mech and the other player does 100 damage all over theirs = no result.[/color]
[color=#959595]'One player does 100 damage to the other players mechs back however = result[/color]
You could substitute the back for individual location or head.

Kol Koontz, on 26 September 2019 - 07:42 PM, said:

Yeah...but the how's and best practices are not solidified in yolo queue. Sorry if you can't understand or accept this.

Can understand certainly, hope that others can change and not resign themselves to accepting though

[General Solo]

The air is filled wid Envy

Guess 98% is more relatable than 99% to the common mech warrior, Maybe why he's popular

While their is better advice from higher up.
Hes advice is still better than 97% of the advice that comes from below.

Solo queue is a different beast

I mean stats dont show every thing

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 26 September 2019 - 07:50 PM.

[L057FUNC710N]

OZHomerOZ, on 26 September 2019 - 07:49 PM, said:

The air is filled wid Envy

Guess 98% is more relatable than 99% to the common mech warrior, Maybe why he's popular

While their is better advice from higher up.
Hes advice is still better than 97% of the advice that comes from below.

Solo queue is a different beast

I mean stats dont show every thing

Yeah they certainly don't show what time of day you play at or show when you are getting a bunch of 30-50 percentile players to drop with you.

Don't get me wrong, Baradul is a strong brawler. But I completely agree with you when you say stats don't show everything.

[General Solo]

And I agree, wait wid a bunch of T1 randoms in one spot gets your surrounded in a game where mechs have legs

Unless its a "Guid/Powa" spot, which with randoms it more likely is not.

Maneuver warfare (Mean watch your mini map often so your not totally situationally clueless)