97 replies to this topic

[Jyi]

FRAGTAST1C, on 03 December 2019 - 08:23 PM, said:

Enemy units that are already damaged isn't anything new if anyone has played the HBS's Battletech. You often encounter enemies there with less than 50% of the armour 'cause they're considered to be in "bad maintenance" and the mission plays out like you're sent to teach some annoying elements a lesson.

This is completely different. It's actually explained in the lore, and it's completely obvious why they're on 50% or less armor. They even have a distinct pirate insignia on top of their units, further emphasizing their poor maintenance.

But this doesn't explain why in MW5 you see a Locust with full armor one minute and then with yellow armor and cored back the next.

[Koniving]

Jyi, on 03 December 2019 - 08:15 PM, said:

That's because the game is so buggy, and perhaps because the AI keeps shooting at each other.

In my video of the assassination mission I show how there's a helicopter (not 100% certain if it's a helicopter, but what else could it be?) that keeps spawning in the sky and instantly exploding. After that I have also realized that the bouncy tank you can see in the video happens 100% of the time, but you can only see it from that direction.

I bet there are even more bugged spawns in the map that we just don't see.

Also, the 1st Locust is on yellow armor 100% of the time before it even gets to you - if it doesn't decide to bug out and just stand still. Because the enemies just don't care.

I'm 100% certain this also applies to tanks, and I'm 100% certain they occasionally outright die because a mech stomped on them.

In warzone many mechs and vehicles spawn with less than 100% health and that's probably on purpose. Though buggy spawns don't surprise me. In universe even brand new machines aren't really 100%. Quikscell products especially come to mind.

I've seen enemy mechs walk through their own tanks. They only try to evade the player and no one else.

Will look for the spawn point in the editor to see if I can see what's happening. Given the lack of polish on these maps I think they were generated, saved and put to use rather than hand crafted. (Go for a swim and you will see what I mean). It's likely that water tiles will need to be set to be zoned as water in the generator as of the creation of the five maps they are not.

Edited by Koniving, 03 December 2019 - 09:34 PM.

[Koniving]

And yes, it is true you will find enemies significantly drop in health within seconds when playing alone and nowhere near them, often to find they're in the company of their friends...who are often behind them and trying to shoot at you...through them. That's what I fixed about 8 hours ago to see if they do any better only to realize I have to make that change for every "class" ai.

[Jyi]

Koniving, on 03 December 2019 - 09:33 PM, said:

In warzone many mechs and vehicles spawn with less than 100% health and that's probably on purpose. Though buggy spawns don't surprise me. In universe even brand new machines aren't really 100%. Quikscell products especially come to mind.

I've seen enemy mechs walk through their own tanks. They only try to evade the player and no one else.

Will look for the spawn point in the editor to see if I can see what's happening. Given the lack of polish on these maps I think they were generated, saved and put to use rather than hand crafted. (Go for a swim and you will see what I mean). It's likely that water tiles will need to be set to be zoned as water in the generator as of the creation of the five maps they are not.

At this point I wouldn't be sure even the warzone -spawns are intended and not just the units colliding with ground or each other and losing hp because of that. But they could be intended, I'll give them that.

And the water... well, I've lost so much hope after this demo that I wouldn't even put it past them to have zero water in full release. The "it's only a texture" could be intended just as well.

Koniving, on 03 December 2019 - 09:37 PM, said:

And yes, it is true you will find enemies significantly drop in health within seconds when playing alone and nowhere near them, often to find they're in the company of their friends...who are often behind them and trying to shoot at you...through them. That's what I fixed about 8 hours ago to see if they do any better only to realize I have to make that change for every "class" ai.

Maybe PGI should just hire you...

[Koniving]

The issue there is like pgi said in war stories they kept in a percentage chance to take slthe shortest route destroying any obstacle in the way.

They see each other as moving destroyable obstacles.

1 obstacle - 1 obstacle = 0 obstacles. = Dead team mates.

[Koniving]

Jyi, on 03 December 2019 - 09:38 PM, said:

At this point I wouldn't be sure even the warzone -spawns are intended and not just the units colliding with ground or each other and losing hp because of that. But they could be intended, I'll give them that.

Maybe PGI should just hire you...

We are uneducated people that don't know anything about game development.... (When we criticized the terrible animations of the mad cat mk II and a few others that are still bad to this day (third person the panther 10P and run. Third person the flea and walk then run.... Third person the nightstar twist 90 degrees then run... Be warned you may cringe to death...)

Besides, I'd lose my mind there.

Edited by Koniving, 03 December 2019 - 10:24 PM.

[Jyi]

I have uploaded a second video showing how poor the AI in MW5 demo is.

Let the criticisms come, I'm prepared to prove you wrong.

[Unleashed3k]

Jyi, on 04 December 2019 - 10:33 PM, said:

I have uploaded a second video showing how poor the AI in MW5 demo is.

Let the criticisms come, I'm prepared to prove you wrong.

No criticism, only 2 questions:
You wanna ride that horse for another 5 days?
Do you really need the views so badly?

Have a good hate day

[Jyi]

Unleashed3k, on 04 December 2019 - 10:45 PM, said:

No criticism, only 2 questions:
You wanna ride that horse for another 5 days?
Do you really need the views so badly?

Have a good hate day

I couldn't care less about views. As you can see, my youtube -channel is completely dead, and I've ever uploaded like 5 videos to youtube previous to my MW5 videos (out of which only 2 are public and they are just music without a video).

I'm going to ride this until PGI fixes their game.

Edited by Jyi, 04 December 2019 - 10:53 PM.

[Unleashed3k]

Jyi, on 04 December 2019 - 10:53 PM, said:

I couldn't care less about views. As you can see, my youtube -channel is completely dead, and I've ever uploaded like 5 videos to youtube previous to my MW5 videos (out of which only 2 are public and they are just music without a video).

I'm going to ride this until PGI fixes their game.

Ok, didn't look at your channel, was just asking because in many games you have some streamers that only get their clicks from hating over stuff.

I hope you can stop riding that horse in 5 days, but it would surprise me, if the game would be completely polished next week.
But let's see if we can have some fun out of it until the modders kick in

Edited by Unleashed3k, 04 December 2019 - 11:27 PM.

[Jyi]

Unleashed3k, on 04 December 2019 - 11:26 PM, said:

Ok, didn't look at your channel, was just asking because in many games you have some streamers that only get their clicks from hating over stuff.

I hope you can stop riding that horse in 5 days, but it would surprise me, if the game would be completely polished next week.
But let's see if we can have some fun out of it until the modders kick in

I'm not holding my breath, but it'd be hard to believe me and some others haven't made any waves by talking about the AI. PGI has to be aware by now. They are just not responding. I assume they think it's better to keep it all quiet and work on whatever final polish they are working on.

I think it's a mistake - it'd be better if they simply said they are aware of the situation and stated that either 1) it's better in the release version or 2) they are working on it and will fix it in a post-release patch. I don't think any of us would have a problem with that. But it's PGI we're talking about.

I'm not sure modders will have an easy time fixing the mess that the AI is right now. But maybe they'll surprise me. At least Koniving seems to have some sort of understanding on the topic. Maybe I'll teach myself to use UE just to make the changes myself. After all, it's MW5 and I've been waiting for it for over a decade.

Bottomline is: I just want to play the co-op campaign with my friends and have it challenge us.

[Koniving]

Jyi, on 04 December 2019 - 10:33 PM, said:

I have uploaded a second video showing how poor the AI in MW5 demo is.

Let the criticisms come, I'm prepared to prove you wrong.

At this rate I could just show this rather than digging up the stalker's script.
Despite heavy cannon to the back, focuses enemy that has not fired. Reacts to back hitter but immediately loses interest because as shown the back hitter shoots then loops around, pulling out of the Atlas's preferred range so atlas goes back to the thunderbolt. When the helicopter hovers closer than thunderbolt, the atlas loses all interest in the thunderbolt. It's literally running the very words I described the script with.

It is picking the Dorito closest to the optimum range and from there it will change to any Dorito that gets closer while trying to back away to preferred distance. Since this adhd pilot can't decide which to focus on it just gets confused.

You basically did the inverse of what I told jacakl to do to prove it to himself (rather than use the ally AIs to induce it on an enemy you used the enemies to induce it on the ally to show us the target switch shuffle I mentioned in jackal's thread.

It's one and only sole priority is engaging the closest enemy in range, damn any common sense.

[Bistrorider]

Wanted to check the demo, but it's only available for those who pre-ordered MW-5. Very strange way to promote a game. Maybe MW-5 devs are scared of something? Dunno… AI in demo is fatal. For example look at the Locust behavior in video that Jyi posted in this topic (14 minute of video). HUD is simply ugly. Don't like big like hell PPC blasts. Is it a fireball? Dunno… About a graphic. Dunno either. It's a desert, game looks good, like many others games. Mech animations are somehow bulky (look at the Thunderbolt move in Jyi video (starts in 02:58). The way it moves. Like missing frames, lack of animations on mech. Dunno...

Of course it's not a problem to make AI 100% accurate. The problem is to make AI challenging but without a feeling that it's cheating. Devs have many tricks to do that. Triggered spawns, AI reinforcements, ambushes, good AI forces placement. Like one mission in MW3 or MW4 when you meet an Annihilator with 4x10LBX in the tunnel. Well, maybe it's rude to put sucha mech in tunnel but at least there is some element of surprise and some "fight for your life" feeling. Of course to create good mission (from player perspective) you have to put some effort in game creation. Where is the effort? Dunno...

Lets pray it will somehow promote MWO and encourage "new" people who will buy MW5 to play MWO.

[color=#222222]So looks like MW5 is a game for players new to the series. [/color]Because there is nothing bad in shooting enemies wave after wave. I mean, who don't like it?

[Koniving]

Found something new that disappointed me.

Catapult... no doors.
Archer...no doors.
King Crab...no pinch.
Crab... no pinch.
Kintaro, no doors..
Vindicator, no door.
Centurion, no door...

...I'm sad.

[Mole]

I mean we are talking about a company that tried to sell the VIP Atlas in MWO's Escort game mode that just walked from point A to point B along a previously determined path and sometimes got stuck as "AI". Is anyone surprised?

Edited by Mole, 06 December 2019 - 07:03 PM.

[Jyi]

Mole, on 06 December 2019 - 07:02 PM, said:

I mean we are talking about a company that tried to sell the VIP Atlas in MWO's Escort game mode that just walked from point A to point B along a previously determined path and sometimes got stuck as "AI". Is anyone surprised?

I guess I shouldn't be.

But I am still a sucker for any BT / MW -content, and if there's a chance of a decent game somewhere in there, I'd like to have it.

If more people would join me in demanding a better AI for the game, maybe PGI would eventually have to deliver. They'd have to realize AI is one of the most fundamental core features of a game - not procedurally generated maps, irrelevant destruction, ragdolls and gravity for projectiles.

But right now the people here are divided into pretty much two camps:
1) The "it looks good, you don't understand anything and if you criticize it at all, I will throw a tantrum" -camp
and
2) The "you stupid suckers, why did you buy into PGI's promises? You know they suck" -camp

(I don't even know why the 2nd camp hangs around these forums, if they dislike PGI so much)

Personally, I think PGI should be criticized, but constructively. If we'd get at least a moderate amount of people to keep criticizing the AI, PGI would have no choice but to fix it. And most of the rest of the game is good enough. Most of the other features that the game lacks CAN be easily modded in. They are all secondary.

Remember, MW5 isn't like MWO. They can't keep selling mech packs to loyalists to make profits on MW5. They need to make the BASE GAME good enough to sell on its own. So they can't ignore the majority of customers while having a steady cash flow from fans who are ready to support them no matter what.

If there is a strong enough indication that AI is the number one thing making or breaking the game (which it is), they will have to fix it.

[N0MAD]

Jyi, on 06 December 2019 - 11:35 PM, said:

Remember, MW5 isn't like MWO. They can't keep selling mech packs to loyalists to make profits on MW5.

Youre kidding right?, they will have expansion packs, mechpacks, probably a couple months-3, i would bet on it.

[Jyi]

N0MAD, on 06 December 2019 - 11:50 PM, said:

Youre kidding right?, they will have expansion packs, mechpacks, probably a couple months-3, i would bet on it.

DLC's? Maybe. Mech packs? I'm a bit doubtful.

But hey, maybe they'll prove me wrong on this too. Still, I'd like to entertain the idea that they'll have to be successful with the base game first.

Edited by Jyi, 07 December 2019 - 12:10 AM.