46 replies to this topic

[Karl Streiger]

MW Waldorf Statler, on 13 December 2019 - 03:17 AM, said:

im Thinking , the heavy Tanks looks a little to small for 60 to 70 tons?! thats must have the size of a Warhammer Torso with Tracks in the game

What? No you are not right - tanks are filled to the rim with diarrhea thats the reason that a 60t Bulldog is no larger than the feet of a Shadow Hawk - at least in HBS Battletech that sadly inherited the gigantotomy of MWO

another serious issue with the "regular" BT tank design is volume - the 20t Heavy APC had to be the size of a 60t - heavy tank (with a house rule you end at 35t minimum at least)

[Zervziel]

martian, on 13 December 2019 - 07:02 AM, said:

The Crab was still present in all corners of the Inner Sphere, albeit in its less capable CRB-20 model.

Sarna states about a hundred across the InnerSphere that were not Comguard. So still almost extinct. Besides you completely missed the point: stop with the pedantic BS. Noone cares are your technicalities.

[Mister Blastman]

I'll pick the 'mech every time.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Rattler MK. II



Because why be a tank when you can be a mobile fortress?

[martian]

Zervziel, on 13 December 2019 - 09:43 AM, said:

Sarna states about a hundred across the InnerSphere that were not Comguard. So still almost extinct.

So the CRB-20 Crab was still extant and used across the Inner Sphere in the set timeframe. This is more than you can say about the Alacorn. Thank you for your confirmation that I am right.

Zervziel, on 13 December 2019 - 09:43 AM, said:

Besides you completely missed the point: stop with the pedantic BS. Noone cares are your technicalities.

Obviously you do, because you wrote your post.

[Koniving]

MW Waldorf Statler, on 13 December 2019 - 03:17 AM, said:

im Thinking , the heavy Tanks looks a little to small for 60 to 70 tons?! thats must have the size of a Warhammer Torso with Tracks in the game

The tanks totally look small!

55 ton mech. 55 ton tank. (Note the pilot inside Shimmering Sword's Wolverine). Note these are both official artwork.


55 ton mech. 1990s.

55 ton mech, 1987.

55 ton mech, scaled to the canonical size of the Shadowhawk with people next to it (slightly bigger than the art but barely) with a 54 ton real life tank, and MWO's Shadowhawk.


Or maybe it's not the tanks...

[martian]

Koniving, on 13 December 2019 - 11:28 AM, said:

The tanks totally look small!
...
Or maybe it's not the tanks...

Yes, BattleTech has had many problems with the internal consistency and with the art consistency.

[Koniving]

Side note...

If you ever wondered where that one meme face comes from (not serious), it's in the next 30 seconds of that scene next to the Shadowhawk.


Still not sure if he's laughing or crying.
...maybe it's both?

martian, on 13 December 2019 - 11:35 AM, said:

Yes, BattleTech has had many problems with the internal consistency and with the art consistency.

(Issue is the art I presented has been very consistent.)

Note the size of the pilot's head in the cockpit, and compare to the infantry men around the tank. 30 years apart.

Note the people next to the Shadowhawk in each scene, 6 years apart.

Pretty consistent.
The art gets inconsistent in the WizKidz era.

And then again in the early Catalyst era, as one-off artists are hired for single sourcebooks. TRO 3075 and Historical: Operation Klondike are particularly egregious offenders. (Edit, just checked and wasn't TRO 3075. But definitely one of the near darkages TROs.)


(Keep in mind elementals are 8 feet tall and their armor is 10 feet tall, the average 65 tonner is about 28 to 37 feet tall. (100 ton Clan mech, 36 feet tall. Edit; linked a better picture of it.)

Considering the average Battletech man is 5'8... Seems fairly consistent.


(Cartoon series was also a terrible offender, decent comparison on externals but once the Elemental breaks open the cockpit, the cockpit on the inside is shown to be larger than the Bridge of Deep Space Nine the space station.)

Edited by Koniving, 13 December 2019 - 11:59 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Koniving, on 13 December 2019 - 11:44 AM, said:

Side note...

And then again in the early Catalyst era, as one-off artists are hired for single sourcebooks. TRO 3075 and Historical: Operation Klondike are particularly egregious offenders.

Just one word - Warlord (enough material to form 2 Atlas... just from the legs)

Edited by Karl Streiger, 13 December 2019 - 11:47 AM.

[martian]

Koniving, on 13 December 2019 - 11:44 AM, said:

(Issue is the art I presented has been very consistent.)

Note the size of the pilot's head in the cockpit, and compare to the infantry men around the tank. 30 years apart.

Note the people next to the Shadowhawk in each scene, 6 years apart.

Pretty consistent.
The art gets inconsistent in the WizKidz era.

And then again in the early Catalyst era, as one-off artists are hired for single sourcebooks. TRO 3075 and Historical: Operation Klondike are particularly egregious offenders. (Edit, just checked and wasn't TRO 3075. But definitely one of the near darkages TROs.)

Sure, but FASA had some weak moments too. I remember an illustration from some older FASA book showing Atlas torso and head of really enormous size.

Side note ...
Brush Wars had some really horrible art pieces.

[GuardDogg]

Arnold The Governator, on 13 December 2019 - 10:21 AM, said:

Rattler MK. II


Because why be a tank when you can be a mobile fortress?

Hot damm!!. Imagine encountering that in MW5

[Koniving]

Karl Streiger, on 13 December 2019 - 11:46 AM, said:

Just one word - Warlord (enough material to form 2 Atlas... just from the legs)

Heh heh. So partially TRO 3075. But in the Warlord's case, remember that the cockpit "glass" area fits the shoulder and head and not the whole body. (Depending on the era of fluff.)

So this thing's really compact.
I mean...really compact.
Else, this thing's gigantic and the weapons are grossly oversized.

If compact, this thing violates a specific set of 1990s rules for the artwork: "If it has endo-steel it needs to be large and oversized."
Unless it is following the rule, in being thicc.. but I don't think it's thick enough for its apparent compact height.


(So when they say the Griffin has a spacious cockpit, they mean it has arm room.)


Given the height of floors.. Still pretty consistent.


But, don't think there's enough material for the Atlas. (Atlas seems to be near the 15/16 meter tall mark here..)

(This said, Timber Wolf has two official scales.)
Pre-94..

37 feet 11 inches.
11.557000000000002 meters.

Post-94.

12.6 meters.
41 feet, 4 1/16th inches.
(Endo is large, ferro is slightly thick, endo+ferro is larger).

Edited by Koniving, 13 December 2019 - 12:17 PM.

[VonBruinwald]

2nding the Alacorn.

[lazorbeamz]

Speaking of tanks i ve just had a funny moment. The ambush mission and my orion buddy got backstabbed by a 2xAC20 tank. That close range labyrynth situation and attacked from behind. Side torso instantly destroyed and there went my tier 4 LB10 cannon .

Edited by lazorbeamz, 13 December 2019 - 12:17 PM.

[VonBruinwald]

lazorbeamz, on 13 December 2019 - 12:17 PM, said:

Speaking of tanks i ve just had a funny moment. The ambush mission and my orion buddy got backstabbed by a 2xAC20 tank. That close range labyrynth situation and attacked from behind. Side torso instantly destroyed and there went my tier 4 LB10 cannon .

Tanks magically spawn behind you at close range. It sucks.

[martian]

VonBruinwald, on 13 December 2019 - 12:21 PM, said:

Tanks magically spawn behind you at close range. It sucks.

I guess that PGI thinks that the MW5 players find such situations amusing.

[Five by Five]

lazorbeamz, on 13 December 2019 - 12:17 PM, said:

Speaking of tanks i ve just had a funny moment. The ambush mission and my orion buddy got backstabbed by a 2xAC20 tank. That close range labyrynth situation and attacked from behind. Side torso instantly destroyed and there went my tier 4 LB10 cannon .

I've found myself allocating more armor to the rear than previously in MW5, especially for my AIs' mechs.

[lazorbeamz]

VonBruinwald, on 13 December 2019 - 12:21 PM, said:

Tanks magically spawn behind you at close range. It sucks.

It was pretty cool because by the plot we got ambushed. Tank walks around the corner and sees a back of an orion.

[Karl Streiger]

The late Starter box and as such the new kickstarter Minis are quite consistent when it comes to scale,
You also have some good shops that spend some time in keeping the scale consistent

Ignore the paint pls, Assegei and Dorylus (45t) from StratoMinis

Edited by Karl Streiger, 14 December 2019 - 06:33 AM.

[jss78]

I'd take the J Edgar for sh*ts and giggles. Faster than any 'mech in the game, and has enough armour to take a hit or two.

In fact, I'd take the flamer variant for extra laughs.