77 replies to this topic

[RickySpanish]

Installing now, should be done by the time I've processed the photo-visual assaults that are Koniving's posts.

[Jacob Singer]

Just a heads up, there are new Nvidia drivers which (allegedly) support MW5, version 441.66.

[Nesutizale]

When I tried to install them my system went "nope" and just refuses to install them. Never had that happen before.

[Odanan]

Koniving, on 10 December 2019 - 11:10 AM, said:

You won't really have to do this one.
The different tiers have different stats and are from different manufacturers.
Problem is they have escalating stats, like a level up. Meanwhile the AI does not benefit from this since they have all tier 1 equipment.

Timewise... Despite the game supposedly ending in 3049, you'll find there's a lot of references to 3052...3059.... and mechs that don't exist in the timeline of up to 3049 in the game (if it says anything, Atlas K...doesn't exist until 3049..)

One thing we could try is combining our efforts on a mod.

Because I'm already quite further along in mind if yours are still in the early plans. I've got excel spreadsheets for weapon stats, breakdowns of item costs, locations that items should be found in markets if found in markets, mechs that they should be 'stock' on, mechanics planned out...

(And to be honest, it's a lot of work to put it into the game; one thing I seriously lack is texturing skills for the 3D meshes I'm making and if you're the person I think you are, you've got the photoshop skills needed for that.)

I was thinking about giving slightly different stats for each manufacturer, so the weapons have a slightly different feel. Think about how weapons are quirked in Borderlands.

For instance, consider the medium laser:

• Intek = +5% range, -2.5% damage
  
• Martell = +5% rate of fire, -2,5% range
  
• Displass Optima = +10% burn time, -5% max range
  
• Hellion Spitfire = +5% damage, +2.5% heat

And so on. This is just the basic idea (not the planed stats). It would require a study of every type of weapon of that class.

Those are relatively balanced and each stock chassis would have weapons according to the lore.

But I brainstormed this without knowing how the weapon tiers work in the game.

If MW5 is treating the manufactures as the weapon tiers, it would be needed a complete rework of the tier system. I just played the first mission yesterday, but will try to dig into the game today to understand it better.

About 2D and 3D art, I have no idea of how Unreal engine works. Give me some time to sort it out and I might be able to do something.

I worked in mods for the past 2 1/2 decades and actually produced/designed a commercial boardgame, but this was always a hobby. A hobby I can't afford much time these days (because of work and kids).

But I love to keep my head occupied and love the Battletech IP, so I want to give a try in moding MW5. It would be a pleasure to combine efforts.

Edited by Odanan, 11 December 2019 - 03:24 AM.

[Odanan]

Jacob Singer, on 10 December 2019 - 12:20 PM, said:

Just a heads up, there are new Nvidia drivers which (allegedly) support MW5, version 441.66.

I updated the drivers and haven't try them yet, but some people are telling the FPS is actually worse after the update.

Edited by Odanan, 11 December 2019 - 04:52 AM.

[Koniving]

Odanan, on 11 December 2019 - 03:22 AM, said:

I was thinking about giving slightly different stats for each manufacturer, so the weapons have a slightly different feel. Think about how weapons are quirked in Borderlands.

For instance, consider the medium laser:

• Intek = +5% range, -2.5% damage
  
• Martell = +5% rate of fire, -2,5% range
  
• Displass Optima = +10% burn time, -5% max range
  
• Hellion Spitfire = +5% damage, +2.5% heat

And so on. This is just the basic idea (not the planed stats). It would require a study of every type of weapon of that class.



Those are relatively balanced and each stock chassis would have weapons according to the lore.

But I brainstormed this without knowing how the weapon tiers work in the game.

If MW5 is treating the manufactures as the weapon tiers, it would be needed a complete rework of the tier system. I just played the first mission yesterday, but will try to dig into the game today to understand it better.

I've worked with it back in 1.5 and 3, 4 isn't much different just simplified in some regards.

Mine goes a bit further than that. Though I don't have to rework the tier system so much as work around it. Rename "tier" as "Rarity", disassociate with weapon loadouts of mechs of higher "difficulty" missions if it is associated, and then use "rarity 5" as "Omg I got something I'll never find again!"
Like the Rassal Blue Beam medium laser, which is canonically extinct prior to the Clan invasion so the one or more you might have in your possession may be the last of them in the universe.

Far as the weapons themselves...

Each weapon is given a distribution of weight (not in game but in balancing pre-planning for it), based on the PPC entry of BattleTechnology in which 3 tons of the 7 tons of a specific PPC is in the weapon's on board cooling equipment (before it gets to the heatsinks; this is why PPCs generate more heat in later versions of the PPC and rules when you deactivate the field inhibitor; you're robbing this cooling equipment of the time needed to cool the weapon before the heat of it gets to your mech), with a ton in inner protective metals (damage resistance), a ton in the actual firing device and 2 tons in coils, mounting equipment and the outer barrel.

These weight distributions are then considered against the most detailed and fluffed examples from Battletech to put literal weight assignments and value to gains and losses, and then these are used to govern the variants and the limitations of their changes to keep anything from being too overpowered.

From there, if a weapon, such as the Donal PPC has a longer barrel (extended range) and a blocky power chamber (more umph), then that weight comes at the cost of other elements. As such the Donal PPC gets more umph and longer-than-normal range, but could have gotten this by sacrificing some of that cooling equipment, or some of the protective metals, etc.

Rather than straight gains, it's a tradeoff. You get something, you lose something.
Coming back to MW5's tier system being renamed to rarity, the rarer it is the more extreme these tradeoffs are, giving high rewards for high sacrifices further heightened by the risk that you might never be able to replace it.
Or I could use it to indicate economic tier, with 1 being the most economic options and 5 being the most economically unsound options.
Or I could use it to indicate the difficulty of use, given that some weapons have charge mechanics, pre-fire delays, long wait times before shots while others can fire immediately, spam fire, and are very simple to use.

Less weight in an autocannon barrel, more into the loading/firing system. Instant carbine AC for faster firing rate at the sacrifice of long-range accuracy (due to shell factoring less velocity from the loss of barrel length with the associated equation to establish velocity given the specified amount of propellant for a shell of a specific caliber. The longer it takes to reach the destination, the harder it would be to hit that target at range.)

So each weapon is given a value in what the elements weigh, then traits or effects such as recharge time (firing rate of energy weapons), cooling rate (since the weapons themselves can overheat separately from the heatsinks, replacing the cooldown bar with its own heat bar but being about the same mechanically, except how hot the weapon is would then determine risks like UAC jam rather than RNG; i.e. you have a bar that tells you exactly when you will jam and if you want to avoid it, you stop firing and let it cool or you can risk it.)

Thus, player choice, player risk, player skill is put at the forefront as opposed to RNG. For burst fire spread, it's simply going to be a factor of the recoil as it fires (shells will always go to the crosshair dot when fired, so during recoil the camera and crosshair moves away from the center you established and this is what pulls the shells away from where you were originally aiming).

From there, weapons are given traits that fit particular playstyles. Closer ranged weapons with either spammy firing mechanics favor faster-moving brawlers, while closer ranged with heavier hitting firing mechanics suit more calculated fast-moving hit and run specialists. Then there's weapons with beyond normal range, weapons that are in the middle, weapons with mechanics that work better for cover-based fighting, there are enough variations that pretty much any player could stock up on weapons dedicated to that playstyle, or combine different ones to suit the needs of the moment, across all weapon classes.

Most of it is lore based, meaning it is as lore-friendly as possible (yes, even the Shotgun-MG "Scattergun Light" is lore-based.)

Beyond the weapons with tangible lore, the next step is characteristics of the manufacturer. For example, Mydron and Imperator sound like generic automatic weapon manufacturers of ACs, both are "quality" manufacturers, both use automatic weapons, both have burst options and make some full auto ACs. But there's a difference.

Imperator made a battle-rifle, chambering a heavy caliber round, kept the longer barrel, strapped a grenade launcher to it and called it an SMG for close-quarters combat... showing that they are disconnected from reality and that a "Bigger bullet is better." As such, Imperators use a bigger bullet in all their autocannons, including their carbine ACs. These bigger bullets subsequentially take fewer shots to net the rated damage, travel faster, and are slightly more expensive per bullet. Sure, firing rate is sacrified slightly and its likeliness to jam is a bit higher due to a lower thermal tolerance and slightly hotter weapon.

In comparison, a Mydron Model B AC/10 versus an Imperator AC/10.
Cost per ton of ammo is identical for both. Cost of the weapon, repairs, etc. is also identical.

Imperator-B AC/10.

Spoiler

Shell, 90mm diameter.
Shells per ton of ammunition, 100.
Cost per shell, 60 c-bills.
Shells per reload and damage rating, 10
Firing type: burst. Burst size - 10. Firing rate: 8 shells per second.
Damage per shell, 1 against 1x armor values. (With the decimal unfriendly change: 3 to 3x armor)
Time to achieve expected rating: 1.25 seconds.
Maximum possible reload window within 5-second limit: 3.75 seconds.
Cooldown time modifier: 2 seconds. (This is the time that it would take to cool down to zero weapon heat after firing one volley.)
Actual reload time: 1.75 seconds (this is to change the cassette/magazine of ammunition to the next one in the line).
Minimum time to reach double rating: 4.25 seconds.
Minimum total time fire, reload, fire, and to finish the second reload: 6 seconds.
Leftover time in 10 second time slice: 4 (this makes for the mandatory cooldown time for overheating the weapon).
Heat per damage rating: 3.2 units.
Heat per shell: 0.32 units.
Heat modifier: 1 unit (additional heat for double firing, used to factor the risk of overheat, jam, etc.)
Total heat of double firing: 7.4 units.
Shell velocity: 1152 meters/second. (calculated automatically with an equation)
TT ranges for expected accuracy of all shells hitting one body section of a 50 ton mech:

short 120 meters, medium 300 meters, long 480 meters, extreme 630 meters.

Range until kinetic force damage can no longer affect BAR 10 armor: 1260 meters.
Range at which the shell will self-destruct with the explosive element: 1890 meters.
Time to reach TT extended 0.546875 seconds. Time to reach SD range: 1.640625 seconds.

And there's stats I'm not listing for reasons. Such as where they are sold in abundance, what the overheat risks specifically are or the specific overheat value, maximum possible repair cost, weapon cost, total ammo cost, health of the equipment, etc.

Mydron Model B AC/10

Spoiler

Shell, 80mm diameter.
Shells per ton of ammunition, 120.
Cost per shell, 50 c-bills.
Shells per reload and damage rating, 12
Firing type: auto or burst. Firing rate: 12 shells per second.
Damage per shell, 0.8333333333 against 1x armor values. (With the decimal unfriendly change, 2.5 to 3x armor)
Time to achieve expected rating: 1.0 seconds (minimum).
Maximum possible reload window within 5-second limit: 4 seconds.
Cooldown time modifier: 1.75 seconds. (This is the time that it would take to cool down to zero weapon heat after firing one volley.)
Actual reload time: 2.25 seconds (this is to change the cassette/magazine of ammunition to the next one in the line).
Minimum time to reach double rating: 4.25 seconds.
Minimum total time fire, reload, fire and to finish the second reload: 6.25 seconds.
Left over time in 10 second time slice: 3.5 seconds (this makes for the mandatory cooldown time for overheating the weapon).
Heat per damage rating: 3.0 units.
Heat per shell: 0.25 units.
Heat modifier: 0.75 unit (additional heat for double firing, used to factor the risk of overheat, jam, etc.)
Total heat of double firing: 6.75 units.
Shell velocity: 1080 meters/second. (calculated automatically with an equation)
TT ranges for expected accuracy of all shells hitting one body section of a 50 ton mech:

short 90 meters, medium 270 meters, long 450 meters, extreme 600 meters.

Range until kinetic force damage can no longer affect BAR 10 armor: 1200 meters.
Range at which the shell will self-destruct with the explosive element: 1800 meters.
Time to reach TT extended 0.5555555556 seconds. Time to reach SD range: 1.6666666667 seconds.

Spoiler

(Note, I'm aware Sarna uses 80mm for Imperator, and that the novels used 80mm for Imperator, but while looking for a difference, the Imperator SMG gave me the inspiration I needed. It also worked better for balancing a system that doesn't have overpowered calibers, as 80mm being 1 damage per shot meant AC/2s using a 90mm shell could be firing a single shot at 1.25 damage, or 2 shots at 2.5 damage, which basically would make all other AC/2s worthless, and 90mm fits better as the 1 damage mark.)

About BAR 10: [spoiler]
Barrier Armor Rating of 10. This is the value of mech armor and tank armor. Softer targets such as LAVs, VTOL, etc. will have "BAR" below 10, with infantry having a "BAR" of 1 in heavy armor and 0 for civilians if I opt to throw that in. So when a weapon's kinetic energy will no longer affect BAR 10, the potential damage from kinetic energy (the punch of the bullet) is lost. Since these two ACs use HEAP ammo, the AP factor is lost and so any damage potential left comes from the high explosive against mech and tank armor. Though it will still do full expected damage against lower BAR ratings, meaning if you land shots within the Self-destruct range of the shell, you'll still obliterate infantry forces but at that range they'll be dots of maybe 2 or 3 pixels in size. Since HEAP AC shells explode, you got an area of effect to work with.

About weapon overheat.
[spoiler]
Rather than a traditional cooldown timer, the weapon builds up heat tracked separately from the primary heat bar. It has a few points to be marked, such as the "safe" range, the "too hot" range where the weapon will stop firing unless you're in override mode, and an overheat range where the weapon can still function but once you unspecified areas within this bar your weapon could temporarily or permanently jam, the barrel could melt (disabling the weapon), or the weapon could explode. The exact things that happen depends on the weapon type.)

And these are two very similar standardized ACs in the class ten family, so imagine the very different ones such as the lore-sourced indirect-fire-capable autocannons. (Demolisher's gonna be terrifying when even indestructible objects won't stop it from firing its twin Chemjet AC/20s OVER them like a howitzer, especially since it has the largest caliber AC/20 in the entire Inner Sphere. But fear not, because you'll be able to salvage them too! Assuming you don't overkill the tanks and obliterate the goods.)

Also for fun comparison, AC/10 velocity in MWO currently: 1,100 meters per second.
Imperator B
Shell velocity: 1152 meters/second. (calculated automatically with an equation)
Mydron Model B
Shell velocity: 1080 meters/second. (calculated automatically with an equation)

For AC/20s, my models come out as quite a bit superior to MWO's in terms of velocity, but for AC/10s these come pretty close to MWO's current velocities. Though when I originally produced these two variants, their velocities were a fair bit superior to what MWO had at the time.
It's also set up so that if I tweak a modifier, the whole setup recalculates everything to give me the exact stats to fill into MW5 for the weapon and expected results. So I could change the ammo type, the caliber, the firing rate, the barrel size, the feeding mechanism, etc. and it'll fluff everything out and give me new stats. I find this to be important because rather than cherry picking stats based on personal preference, I have a series of equations determining them based on the input of the primary factors constituting the weapon and the ammunition elements (when applicable).

After the lore-fluff is exhausted, I'll fill in the rest based on what little information there is to help fill any untapped niches.

Quote

About 2D and 3D art, I have no idea of how Unreal engine works. Give me some time to sort it out and I might be able to do something.

Texture mapping on meshes is about the same as it has always been and it can do multiple texture channels. (Unreal 1.5 could handle 8 channels of textures for an actor).

Quote

I worked in mods for the past 2 1/2 decades and actually produced/designed a commercial board game, but this was always a hobby. A hobby I can't afford much time these days (because of work and kids).

But I love to keep my head occupied and love the Battletech IP, so I want to give a try in moding MW5. It would be a pleasure to combine efforts.

Sounds awesome, because there's a lot of work still to be done to get it into the game, and the more people combining their efforts the easier it is for everyone to get it done.

Edited by Koniving, 11 December 2019 - 03:01 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

Odanan, on 11 December 2019 - 03:26 AM, said:

I updated the drivers and haven't try them yet, but some people are telling the FPS is actually worse after the update.

Weird, mine was better. Didn't run bad before, though.

[Sjorpha]

I get no dynamic shadows and everything looks dithered as if painted with crayons or something, is this how it looks for everyone or do I have some graphic bug?

I'm running max settings at 1440p, gtx1080 and 6700k clocked to 4.8. Game runs very smooth but it still looks like that, tbh it looks terrible. I hope whatever causes it to look that way gets fixed soon because it's hard to enjoy the game as is.

Edited by Sjorpha, 11 December 2019 - 04:31 PM.

[LordNothing]

Sjorpha, on 11 December 2019 - 04:29 PM, said:

I get no dynamic shadows and everything looks dithered as if painted with crayons or something, is this how it looks for everyone or do I have some graphic bug?

I'm running max settings at 1440p, gtx1080 and 6700k clocked to 4.8. Game runs very smooth but it still looks like that, tbh it looks terrible. I hope whatever causes it to look that way gets fixed soon because it's hard to enjoy the game as is.

sounds like they need to up the resolution of the gbuffer. a lot of games give you that setting.

Edited by LordNothing, 11 December 2019 - 04:38 PM.

[Warhawke_]

Have to wonder if they knew there were so many issues and launched anyway?

So I take it it will be a year plus before all the terrible Joystick/Hotas issues are addressed?

Edited by Warhawke_, 11 December 2019 - 04:39 PM.

[Iron Heel]

I found that decreasing the AA makes it look like ***, with lots of artifacts and odd lighting anomalies.
My Rx570 defaulted to High AA and my frame rates are fine, but I was playing around and was like YUK WTH!?!?..

[overheal]

Warhawke_, on 11 December 2019 - 04:38 PM, said:

Have to wonder if they knew there were so many issues and launched anyway?

So I take it it will be a year plus before all the terrible Joystick/Hotas issues are addressed?

I mean I get that a small, vocal niche of the community plays on HOTAS/JS and they're upset that support isn't working for all setups at launch. I don't blame them for not having the resources to support and test a ton of configurations for that kind of random hardware support - xbox, playstation controllers, random off brand controllers, etc.. Even Valve - Valve, screwed up with a controller they made themselves, and they have money and people to burn on that sort of thing. Considering the support reportedly works in MWO it won't take long for the issues to be patched though.

Is anyone else getting slowdown when they zoom in?

[Thorasta]

I just looted my first mech - a spider. Anybody know if it is more valuable to sell if I repair it first - or should I just sell it scrapped?

[Odanan]

Jackal Noble, on 11 December 2019 - 02:44 PM, said:

Weird, mine was better. Didn't run bad before, though.

I tried to launch the game after the driver updated and I'm getting an error. Now Epic started to update MW5. I hope it will fix the problem (or I will need to rollback the update)

[overheal]

Thorasta, on 11 December 2019 - 05:34 PM, said:

I just looted my first mech - a spider. Anybody know if it is more valuable to sell if I repair it first - or should I just sell it scrapped?

I bought a locust for 1.2 M, it sold for 0.7~0.8 M I think when it was repaired. Hope that helps

[LordNothing]

you can make a lot of cbills by salvaging mechs and then sell them immediately.

[Koniving]

Warhawke_, on 11 December 2019 - 04:38 PM, said:

Have to wonder if they knew there were so many issues and launched anyway?

So I take it it will be a year plus before all the terrible Joystick/Hotas issues are addressed?

In the contracts with Steam or Epic, there's a mandatory window in which you must release after applying or else you have to reapply.
In Epic's exclusivity deal's case, you'd have to pay back what they gave you for signing the deal, and they don't re-give it to you.

Basically "You have this long to release or you pay us back the money, and if you still wanna release here you're still stuck to the year contract! Or you can crawl back to Steam where they make YOU pay for an application to sell in their store." (Can't recall if you have to pay to sell on Steam or not, but with the profit cut being worse than selling in stores..)

PGI delayed the release a year before signing any deal but had the issue of not knowing how to do certain things and running tight on money (Russ admitted the mech packs weren't selling well back in January or February), so they signed the deal. They got money and Unreal engine support from Epic, in return they were given a mandatory release window. Then when the original September release came up, PGI delayed it as long as they possibly could without breaking the contract.

While there's plenty of reason to throw salt at PGI, lets do it for the reasons that are true, and not false ones. PGI knows it wasn't ready for release, they didn't have much of a choice.

Edited by Koniving, 11 December 2019 - 06:55 PM.

[Thorasta]

Thorasta, on 11 December 2019 - 05:34 PM, said:

I just looted my first mech - a spider. Anybody know if it is more valuable to sell if I repair it first - or should I just sell it scrapped?

Answering my own question:
NO, it is not worth it to fix a salvaged mech before selling. I spent 86k fixing it, and was only rewarded an extra 20k in the sale price.

New question -- Is there any advantage to maintaining pirate faction? In Battletech game it means keeping the black market functional, but is really hard to do.

Since the game starts in House Davion space, you really easily get Davion faction at the expense of everything else... Which is too bad, House Davion is one of my least favorite houses.

[Odanan]

Odanan, on 11 December 2019 - 05:34 PM, said:

I tried to launch the game after the driver updated and I'm getting an error. Now Epic started to update MW5. I hope it will fix the problem (or I will need to rollback the update)

OK, there was an update (probably hotfix?) of MW5. Now the game is working again.

[Jackal Noble]

Thorasta, on 12 December 2019 - 01:11 AM, said:

New question -- Is there any advantage to maintaining pirate faction? In Battletech game it means keeping the black market functional, but is really hard to do.

Since the game starts in House Davion space, you really easily get Davion faction at the expense of everything else... Which is too bad, House Davion is one of my least favorite houses.

That is a good question about the pirates. Not to mention it would add another layer of depth