73 replies to this topic

[CFC Conky]

Horseman, on 11 January 2020 - 11:10 AM, said:

"Seize the advantage, any advantage" is the name of the game for any mech class. It's just the question of which ones your mech can make use of the best.

Indeed.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

The game may be sputtering along on life support, but by the gods we are going to have our regularly scheduled "lights are for scouting!" thread!

If PGI had ever intended to force lights into a purely supporting role, then the first light 'Mech would not have been the Jenner. The Jenner, notorious throughout the Inner Sphere for being able to punch way above its weight. The Jenner, such a terrifying threat to larger, more expensive machines that two of the great houses collaborated to design the Wolfhound just to counter it. Instead, they would have led in with another equally well known but offensively weaker design, like the Spider... but they chose the run-and-gun, slash-and-burn, backity-stabbity, laser-and-missile-y, Jenner.

...and since then, in addition to some actual scout/recon/support lights, we've also gotten the Panther, a mobile sniper; the Adder and Cougar, both dedicated gunbags which outshoot many stock IS assault 'Mechs; the Wolfhound, designed as a hunter-killer; the Piranha, which needs no introduction; and the *****-Effin'-Urbanmech, the plucky lil' trashcan with a giant gorram gun. None of these are, in any of their variants, built for scouting, spotting, or electronic warfare. They're built for making things die.

Lore does not support the "lights are for scouting!" argument, because scouting roles are not exclusive to lights, nor are lights exclusively built for scouting roles (and even some that were turned out to also be capable fighters, like the Commando). This has always been a bad argument, and it is always made in bad faith by players who are frustrated by either:
A. being repeatedly killed by better pilots driving light 'Mechs.
-or-
B. light pilots not bending over backwards to get locks for the invariably passive complainant (which seems to be the gripe du jour here).

...which doesn't even begin to address the silliness of using a dice-based tabletop game to justify how you think things should work in a reflex-based first-person shooter. A game's mechanics have to be based on what works best for its gameplay environment, and non-shooty roles in shooty games have to be substantially useful and enjoyable on their own merits in order to be worth playing at all. Nobody, and I mean nobody, wants to be the guy who isn't firing a gun in a game that's all about firing guns- not unless the game provides some serious incentives. MWO does not. It incentivizes shooting things, to the exclusion of all other possible play options. In point of fact, you can't even drop a build in active play unless it has a damaging weapon mounted. Guns are considered by the game to be as critical as an engine. You can drop without armor, without support equipment, and without common freaking sense, but you can't drop without a weapon. That'd be your first clue as to what role comes first and foremost for any 'Mech of any weight class.

The bottom line is this: if your 'Mech is capable of mounting offensive weaponry, you should be using it offensively. All other considerations are secondary and situational.

[Void Angel]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 11 January 2020 - 02:25 PM, said:

The game may be sputtering along on life support, but by the gods we are going to have our regularly scheduled "lights are for scouting!" thread!

Lights should try to extend the reach of the team's situational awareness, and in most cases they're the only ones who can put eyes over and around that next hill or bend with relative safety - so they should do that; I scout with my Spider all the time. But there's no net fracking benefit to just running around looking at things in this game. Scouting is never the only thing I do with that Spider. It's not a coincidence that I got my Ace of Spades achievement on a 5D.

Edited by Void Angel, 12 January 2020 - 02:05 AM.

[Vxheous]

Void Angel, on 12 January 2020 - 02:00 AM, said:

Lights should try to extend the reach of the team's situational awareness, and in most cases they're the only ones who can put eyes over and around that next hill or bend with relative safety - so they should do that; I scout with my Spider all the time. But there's no net fracking benefit to just running around looking at things in this game. Scouting is never the only thing I do with that Spider. It's not a coincidence that I got my Ace of Spades achievement on a 5D.

That's actually pretty impressive kill securing, since the Spider 5D (or any spider for that matter) is pretty under armed.

[Void Angel]

Vxheous, on 12 January 2020 - 02:51 AM, said:

That's actually pretty impressive kill securing, since the Spider 5D (or any spider for that matter) is pretty under armed.

Tell me about it... But, this time I had a perfect match for it - I topped damage, too, if I recall. =) It was on Mining Collective, and the enemy Lights died early on, leaving me clear to just keep the pressure on. Both teams were being cautiously aggressive doing corner trades, and I just bounced around and added my firepower where it hurt the most. Bear in mind that this was years ago, probably; meta seems to have a lot more dps in it now, at least for quickplay. The Assaults took heavy damage and casualties first, then pulled back and played more cautiously - it was a perfect storm of ideal match conditions for a Light harasser that I'll probably never see again.

I'd show you the screenshot, but it was also a computer or two ago, and Photobucket still hasn't gotten my account back up.

Edited by Void Angel, 12 January 2020 - 06:07 AM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

I feel like the OP is similar to posts dating back to the Beta days. Before MWO tactics and play had evolved to the point they are today and people were going off the "class warfare" and "role warfare" concepts that never really materialized. Back then, people would say "LRM boat here, hold locks" at the beginning of matches.

[Vxheous]

TheCaptainJZ, on 13 January 2020 - 04:28 PM, said:

I feel like the OP is similar to posts dating back to the Beta days. Before MWO tactics and play had evolved to the point they are today and people were going off the "class warfare" and "role warfare" concepts that never really materialized. Back then, people would say "LRM boat here, hold locks" at the beginning of matches.

Ppl still say that, and then get laughed at mercilessly.

[LordRush]

I do believe I thoroughly explained and even took blame. As I mentioned, I can accept a lot of things and even accept the responsibility for them. Will I change? Possible, at least on a few key areas others...no, It just won't happen as I am way to stubborn to conform to tactics based on a fubar design.
With that said, most of you are just the strong arm keyboard warriors who have nothing really better to do. Judging by the amount of post's by many of you, I would say it probably is time to get back into a mech,at the very least because your four walls on the forum here seem to have overtaken your life.

[justcallme A S H]

LordRush, on 13 January 2020 - 08:21 PM, said:

With that said, most of you are just the strong arm keyboard warriors who have nothing really better to do. Judging by the amount of post's by many of you, I would say it probably is time to get back into a mech,at the very least because your four walls on the forum here seem to have overtaken your life.

You'd be right if...


Most of the people posting here we not in the higher(est) echelons of the game... I mean EmP, the unit Vx and I are part of just took out Worlds for the 3rd time in 4 years... So pretty sure we spend enough time playing and understanding of the game - something you are definitely showing a big deficiency in.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

LordRush, on 13 January 2020 - 08:21 PM, said:

most of you are just the strong arm keyboard warriors who have nothing really better to do. Judging by the amount of post's by many of you, I would say it probably is time to get back into a mech,at the very least because your four walls on the forum here seem to have overtaken your life.

"Most" of the players weighing in here outclass me by leaps and bounds, and I'm 90th percentile. "Keyboard Warrior" is the last insult flung by someone who knows their argument is crumbling and can't stand to concede the point without a parting shot.

But, hey, at least you admit that you're too stubborn to change. Don't take the word of people who know more about lore, 'Mech builds, and MWO tactics than you do. That's fine- just don't try to frame your wrongness as advice, because bad advice that gets people killed and loses matches will invariably drive away what few new players we get anymore, and that's a bad thing.

[Vxheous]

LordRush, on 13 January 2020 - 08:21 PM, said:

I do believe I thoroughly explained and even took blame. As I mentioned, I can accept a lot of things and even accept the responsibility for them. Will I change? Possible, at least on a few key areas others...no, It just won't happen as I am way to stubborn to conform to tactics based on a fubar design.
With that said, most of you are just the strong arm keyboard warriors who have nothing really better to do. Judging by the amount of post's by many of you, I would say it probably is time to get back into a mech,at the very least because your four walls on the forum here seem to have overtaken your life.

Yes, please tell me again how I am a strong arm keyboard warrior.

[Horseman]

LordRush, on 13 January 2020 - 08:21 PM, said:

With that said, most of you are just the strong arm keyboard warriors who have nothing really better to do. Judging by the amount of post's by many of you, I would say it probably is time to get back into a mech,at the very least because your four walls on the forum here seem to have overtaken your life.

Actually, mate, looking at the amount of games we've logged, within past three and a half year all but one of us have logged more time in a mech than you did.

[Void Angel]

I feel left out.

But I'm not that active either.

[Julius Septim]

This thread is the PERFECT example why there are so much "noobs" in quickplay + and thats the important thing the community is doomed.

Op said it perfectly, 90% of light mechs have the role to scout n support but otherwise 90% of the ppl play or try to play them as dmg dealers.. wich is just laughable.

[justcallme A S H]

Julius Septim, on 14 January 2020 - 07:32 AM, said:

This thread is the PERFECT example why there are so much "noobs" in quickplay + and thats the important thing the community is doomed.

Op said it perfectly, 90% of light mechs have the role to scout n support but otherwise 90% of the ppl play or try to play them as dmg dealers.. wich is just laughable.

You realise by saying the OP said it "perfectly"...

You are now one of the "noobs" of QP, right?

[Ignatius Audene]

Yea. Pls say this to my javelin 1300dmg matches or all the pir...
Sure all scouts...

U realise that mwo is quite special that u find world champions in a new player help.
Damn ash even offered private training in fp for units and solo players.
If u ask, u can easily get scrim matches with even the top dog units.

Sure. Free salt included.

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 14 January 2020 - 09:48 AM.

[Roland09]

Vxheous, on 14 January 2020 - 12:00 AM, said:

Yes, please tell me again how I am a strong arm keyboard warrior.

See?
All those mouse & keyboard warriors. Forum trolls, the lot of them. Totally not inclusive.

Edited by Roland09, 14 January 2020 - 11:41 AM.

[Julius Septim]

Hm i dont know what "Top Dog" Units is worth nowadays with .. lets say 500-1000~ ppl online each day.

But hey getting Personal was always a thing, a thing wich always drove me away from the Forums....

you have..
you are..

nope, as soon someone try to belittle ppl i´m out, got no mood or time to waste it for such behaviour.

[dario03]

Julius Septim, on 14 January 2020 - 07:32 AM, said:

This thread is the PERFECT example why there are so much "noobs" in quickplay + and thats the important thing the community is doomed.

Op said it perfectly, 90% of light mechs have the role to scout n support but otherwise 90% of the ppl play or try to play them as dmg dealers.. wich is just laughable.

Wait... Are you saying lights should be played as scouts because of lore or because that's how you think they are supposed to play in this game? Lore wise they usually aren't all that strong but even there some are built to deal damage. But in this game plenty of lights are built to deal damage and while they might not be the strongest damage dealers they definitely can be played like that and if you want big scores is how they should be played.

[Horseman]

dario03, on 14 January 2020 - 12:40 PM, said:

and while they might not be the strongest damage dealers

Except when a ******* KFX does the work of half of your entire assault lance.