81 replies to this topic

[ccrider]

Winter VII, on 10 January 2020 - 04:02 PM, said:

I can't quote the whole thread, but this is awesome and appreciated! Going to take a break from the queue, and sit down with these for a bit.



Yeah so I guess I haven't experienced much of that, and to be honest what difference would it make if I tried when the rest of the team says yolo and just wants to get it over and done. I haven't seen that many mics light up before period.



Sadly players would rather suicide and end the game rather then play against what at the time appear to be stacked teams...

Mind you I haven't been around long enough to know anything about any units so this isn't just me talking i'm just presenting what I have experienced so far in my small tenure in MWO and speak up for the new players which yes we do exist and more and more by the day in Clan chat at least asking build questions etc.

Its ok to be new. I spent my first months in FP getting absolutely wrecked by NS, NKVA, TCAF and Lords back when clan mechs were absolutely light years better than IS. Then we got wrecked by teams running nothing but the uber quirkef IS mechs like the old thunderwub and battlemadters that could kill you from the drop one of boreal when you were outside. It's fine to suck at first. You just gotta find the mechs and builds you do best in, get the cool down timing in your head so you know when to present and shoot and when you should be ducking and play the stacked teams because it will absolutely make you better at positioning and concentrating on single components. It's no good waving lasers over a mechs against a team that has a dozen good players; you need to efficiently finish off everyone you shoot at so their guns are off the map. If your team quits, ignore it and just work on your own aiming and positioning. It sucks but it will pay off in later matches so it's worth the effort.

[-Winter]

ccrider, on 10 January 2020 - 04:21 PM, said:

Its ok to be new. I spent my first months in FP getting absolutely wrecked by NS, NKVA, TCAF and Lords back when clan mechs were absolutely light years better than IS. Then we got wrecked by teams running nothing but the uber quirkef IS mechs like the old thunderwub and battlemadters that could kill you from the drop one of boreal when you were outside. It's fine to suck at first. You just gotta find the mechs and builds you do best in, get the cool down timing in your head so you know when to present and shoot and when you should be ducking and play the stacked teams because it will absolutely make you better at positioning and concentrating on single components. It's no good waving lasers over a mechs against a team that has a dozen good players; you need to efficiently finish off everyone you shoot at so their guns are off the map. If your team quits, ignore it and just work on your own aiming and positioning. It sucks but it will pay off in later matches so it's worth the effort.

I'd like to think I have been learning. My first mech was a multi weapon hardpoint mess. Not saying they're perfect now, but better and have purpose. This event has helped stack up some alternatives to have 2 decks at least. It's a completely different ball game going from QP to FW, and then going against coordinated FW enemy teams is a whole different animal. Especially when you don't have teamwork on your side.

[ccrider]

Winter VII, on 10 January 2020 - 04:27 PM, said:

I'd like to think I have been learning. My first mech was a multi weapon hardpoint mess. Not saying they're perfect now, but better and have purpose. This event has helped stack up some alternatives to have 2 decks at least. It's a completely different ball game going from QP to FW, and then going against coordinated FW enemy teams is a whole different animal. Especially when you don't have teamwork on your side.

yeah, I always queue up on whatever side is underrepresented so I know what it feels like to see a lot of mixed group or full unit 12 mans, but honestly, those are the games I enjoy most. I like shooting good players and I have a tendency to just wander around doing dumb **** if I don't feel like the enemy team can win. When I'm pretty sure I'm gonna lose I get into the match and it gives me the old rush the game did back in the beginning.

[Leone]

justcallme A S H, on 10 January 2020 - 12:30 PM, said:

The #1 issue is... Poor/Bad builds.

I disagree. Aggression wins matches. It is totally all about the tactics and strategy, which, I admit, builds are a part of. But I can and have taken mid range mechs onto polar highlands, taken the trenches, and brawled it up to victory. Granted, complete 270 brawl range is really hard to work with on Polar, so I tend to go midrange for it.

In fact, I've seen new players complain about 'good' builds because they didn't know how to use them. Let the tactics come first, then when they realize why they want the long range twisting builds for polar, they'll know howto appreciate 'em.

~Leone.

[ccrider]

Leone, on 10 January 2020 - 04:46 PM, said:

I disagree. Aggression wins matches. It is totally all about the tactics and strategy, which, I admit, builds are a part of. But I can and have taken mid range mechs onto polar highlands, taken the trenches, and brawled it up to victory. Granted, complete 270 brawl range is really hard to work with on Polar, so I tend to go midrange for it.

In fact, I've seen new players complain about 'good' builds because they didn't know how to use them. Let the tactics come first, then when they realize why they want the long range twisting builds for polar, they'll know howto appreciate 'em.

~Leone.

this is good. We used to run 9 linebackers and 3 ecm shadowcats every wave on polar. You eat a bit of damage getting there but all 12 mechs have the same speed and when you get close, erll and ppc builds don't have the dps to win the scrum. And the ecm protects from lrms. You get outraged but when you get close its glorious.

[justcallme A S H]

Leone, on 10 January 2020 - 04:46 PM, said:

I disagree. Aggression wins matches. It is totally all about the tactics and strategy, which, I admit, builds are a part of. But I can and have taken mid range mechs onto polar highlands, taken the trenches, and brawled it up to victory. Granted, complete 270 brawl range is really hard to work with on Polar, so I tend to go midrange for it.

In fact, I've seen new players complain about 'good' builds because they didn't know how to use them. Let the tactics come first, then when they realize why they want the long range twisting builds for polar, they'll know howto appreciate 'em.

~Leone.

In an organised team, yeah maybe.

Dropping random/solo - no.

If you start with a good base the rest comes. Start with a bad base and it's aun uphill battle no matter what you do.

[Dionnsai]

Just some thoughts before you join faction play:

1. Can you field at least 3 solid drop decks for both IS and CLAN?

2. Do you know the difference between a long range drop deck and a brawl drop deck?

3. Can you adjust your drop deck on the fly in 90 seconds?

4. Do you watch any top tier pilots play and learn from them? Search twitch for Mechwarrior Online, many great pilots stream.

5. Can you do at least 400 damage in quickplay WITHOUT any lock on weapons?

6. If you find yourself saying the words "HOLD LOCKS" in quickplay, you need to adjust your attitude. If you say this in faction play, people are going to instantly disregard you.

There are many more tidbits, but that's what came to mind.

-Dio

[Dionnsai]

Leone, on 10 January 2020 - 04:46 PM, said:

In fact, I've seen new players complain about 'good' builds because they didn't know how to use them. Let the tactics come first, then when they realize why they want the long range twisting builds for polar, they'll know howto appreciate 'em.
~Leone.

Good builds are good for a reason. It's not just that they are some kind of uber meta, in most cases they simplify the weapons and make it easier to play.

Take a Hellbringer:
I often see newer pilots dropping builds similar to the stock loadout on an HBR-A:
• 1 Narc
• 1 Ultra AC/5
• 1 LRM 20
• 2 ER LRG Laser
• 1 ER Med Laser
• 2 Machine Gun

Compare that to the Meta build:
• 2 Heavy Large
• 4 Er Medium Laser

Anyone can learn to play the second build, and it's one of the best mechs to put a new pilot in if you want to teach them how to trade properly, and you can augment it with ECM/AMS to make it a great team player.

The first build, I don't even know if Merata Kell could make it work (probably though). The weapons are all over the map, there isn't much synergy, and it looks hot as balls. Weird head-canon mechdad tabletop builds are not going to work in a game where players with agency can actually aim their weapons instead of rolling dice.


An afterthought, letting bad players continue to play bad mechs and builds is counter-productive. Often they get bad ideas in their head, develop bad habits and just continue down the wrong road for years.

I've looked up many epic potatos on jarls, they're 20% after 6 years of play and they have no idea why they haven't improved (and in many cases no idea that they could or should).

Edited by Dionnsai, 12 January 2020 - 07:51 AM.

[-Winter]

Dionnsai, on 12 January 2020 - 07:37 AM, said:

Just some thoughts before you join faction play:

1. Can you field at least 3 solid drop decks for both IS and CLAN?

5. Can you do at least 400 damage in quickplay WITHOUT any lock on weapons?

6. If you find yourself saying the words "HOLD LOCKS" in quickplay, you need to adjust your attitude. If you say this in faction play, people are going to instantly disregard you.
-Dio

1.) You can't ask that of a newer player period. Idc if I catch flak for pointing this out, but that is an ******* mentality to think that someone needs 6 decks to play FP...

5.) This is 100% dependent on Tier. 400 in Tier 4 is trash because its very easy to take 1k+ in lower tiers as long as the team survives more then 5min. Meanwhile in higher tiers you are competing against players not bots.

6.) While I agree, FP the last few nights has an insane amount of LRM/Narc coordinated teams. Just saying.

Edited by Winter VII, 12 January 2020 - 08:16 AM.

[Dionnsai]

Winter VII, on 12 January 2020 - 08:03 AM, said:

1.) You can't ask that of a newer player period. Idc if I catch flak for pointing this out, but that is an ******* mentality to think that someone needs 6 decks to play FP...

5.) This is 100% dependent on Tier. 400 in Tier 4 is trash because its very easy to take 1k+ in lower tiers as long as the team survives more then 5min. Meanwhile in higher tiers you are competing against players not bots.

6.) While I agree, FP the last few nights has an insane amount of LRM/Narc coordinated teams. Just saying.

Absolutely no one is asking that of a new player, that's the whole point. You can earn and learn in quickplay while you build up what you need for faction play. If you absolutely need to play faction, then you want to hook up with some folks who know what they're doing so they can coach you on mechs and builds.

Edited by Dionnsai, 13 January 2020 - 04:54 AM.

[Prototelis]

You really only need like 6 mechs per tech base to play FP

4 long range trade, and two mid range daka. Maybe one 20 tonner to round it out.

Edited by Prototelis, 12 January 2020 - 12:55 PM.

[The Jewce Iz Loose]

Prototelis, on 12 January 2020 - 12:55 PM, said:

You really only need like 6 mechs per tech base to play FP

4 long range trade, and two mid range daka. Maybe one 20 tonner to round it out.

2 long range mechs will do the trick most of the time, then a mid/brawl and whatever you got left, matches only last so long, and snipe fights take forever, wont have time to bring 4 range mechs, unless your plan is to die quickly

[Brauer]

You really just need a long range deck and a mid-range deck for either IS or clan to dip your toe in imo. Having 3 decks for each side is definitely a good goal, but it's overkill imo, if you can choose between a mid-range dakka deck and a erll deck you can play FW for the faction in question.

[justcallme A S H]

Winter VII, on 12 January 2020 - 08:03 AM, said:

1.) You can't ask that of a newer player period. Idc if I catch flak for pointing this out, but that is an ******* mentality to think that someone needs 6 decks to play FP...

5.) This is 100% dependent on Tier. 400 in Tier 4 is trash because its very easy to take 1k+ in lower tiers as long as the team survives more then 5min. Meanwhile in higher tiers you are competing against players not bots.

6.) While I agree, FP the last few nights has an insane amount of LRM/Narc coordinated teams. Just saying.

The game gives you a warning about optimised builds and organised teams...

Bringing a Brawl Atlas or a MCIIB/Dakka to a long range engagement on Polar Highlands... That is not paying due caution to that in any way.

FP should have been gated from the outset. Alas here we are, even Cadets can play in it with Trial Mechs and wonder why they get facerolled.

[Vxheous]

justcallme A S H, on 12 January 2020 - 03:00 PM, said:

The game gives you a warning about optimised builds and organised teams...

Bringing a Brawl Atlas or a MCIIB/Dakka to a long range engagement on Polar Highlands... That is not paying due caution to that in any way.

FP should have been gated from the outset. Alas here we are, even Cadets can play in it with Trial Mechs and wonder why they get facerolled.

He's getting pointers from me now (past few days), so should be all sorted out.

Edited by Vxheous, 12 January 2020 - 03:03 PM.

[-Winter]

justcallme A S H, on 12 January 2020 - 03:00 PM, said:

The game gives you a warning about optimised builds and organised teams...

Bringing a Brawl Atlas or a MCIIB/Dakka to a long range engagement on Polar Highlands... That is not paying due caution to that in any way.

FP should have been gated from the outset. Alas here we are, even Cadets can play in it with Trial Mechs and wonder why they get facerolled.

True the game does warn you about FP. They really shouldn't make FP so appealing then lol. 4x the CBills and the only place to earn mech bays. Hop clan to clan, house to house lvl2 bam 12 mech bays. If it wasn't for FP Id have what, 2 maybe 3 random builds? Instead of having 2 full clan decks with proper builds, and half way to an IS deck. Yeah I know yesterday I didn't have ranged and today I have three wow I know right? Pretty impressive huh lol. Wouldn't of happened in QP promise you that one. Did you know Air Strikes count towards dmg numbers?!?... i didn't.. What a revelation!?!. Gotta start using those lol. You can keep the elitest troll thing going lol. To be honest you're not wrong. Makes me wonder why there is no SBMM in FP? Maybe its dwindling player counts.

Anyway this whole thread is full of "New players shouldn't play FP unless you have *Endless list of **** most players don't have nevermind new players*..." Its not viable to expect 1/6th what you want out of new players. You'd think guys would be extatic that there's new players coming to this game lol.

Big thanks to Vxheous, Ragnar, Jerg, Fluid, Marcin. Few others too. Great advice and builds tips.

[justcallme A S H]

Winter VII, on 12 January 2020 - 05:41 PM, said:

Did you know Air Strikes count towards dmg numbers?!?... i didn't.. What a revelation!?!. Gotta start using those lol. You can keep the elitest troll thing going lol. To be honest you're not wrong. Makes me wonder why there is no SBMM in FP? Maybe its dwindling player counts.

Well yeah I know airstikes do dmg. However unless you have endless cbills, using strikes in FP actually hurts your progress in the game. They are a deliberate cbills sink and that is why PGI allows you to bring 2... The math is easy.

Say in a loss - you only make 600k cbills. Over 4 mechs you use 2 strikes on 3 mechs.
Strike cost: 40k x 6 = 240k cbills.

Earnings minus strike use: 600k - 240k cbills

Overall earnings: 360k cbills

For 25mins game time, 360k is about 1/2 of what you would earn playing QP for the same amount of time. I mean I can earn ~450k cbills in 5mins of QP. The general user probably closer to 250-300k cbills, so that is where my calc comes from.

Now if you have 2 coolshots as well, you've suddenly made 120k cbills... Less than 1/5th what you can earn in the same time in QP.

Winter VII, on 12 January 2020 - 05:41 PM, said:

Anyway this whole thread is full of "New players shouldn't play FP unless you have *Endless list of **** most players don't have nevermind new players*..." Its not viable to expect 1/6th what you want out of new players. You'd think guys would be extatic that there's new players coming to this game lol.

That isn't what it is though. You need 8, not 100s. 8 is enough to get you by.

Seeing Cadets putting out 300dmg over 4 mechs in 25mins is nothing to get extatic about. It ruins EVERYONEs experience including their own.

It's like going for a 3 day trail treck in the mountains and only taking a pair of shorts/tshirt and some water. You are woefully ill equippped and its not gonna be fun.

[-Winter]

justcallme A S H, on 12 January 2020 - 08:07 PM, said:

Well yeah I know airstikes do dmg. However unless you have endless cbills, using strikes in FP actually hurts your progress in the game. They are a deliberate cbills sink and that is why PGI allows you to bring 2... The math is easy.

Say in a loss - you only make 600k cbills. Over 4 mechs you use 2 strikes on 3 mechs.
Strike cost: 40k x 6 = 240k cbills.

Earnings minus strike use: 600k - 240k cbills

Overall earnings: 360k cbills

For 25mins game time, 360k is about 1/2 of what you would earn playing QP for the same amount of time. I mean I can earn ~450k cbills in 5mins of QP. The general user probably closer to 250-300k cbills, so that is where my calc comes from.

Now if you have 2 coolshots as well, you've suddenly made 120k cbills... Less than 1/5th what you can earn in the same time in QP.

Good to know, ive never used aux items. Being in the lower tiers my QP matches are 100% luck I guess idk if the tiers even work anymore but it sure feels like potato salad.

justcallme A S H, on 12 January 2020 - 08:07 PM, said:

That isn't what it is though. You need 8, not 100s. 8 is enough to get you by.

Seeing Cadets putting out 300dmg over 4 mechs in 25mins is nothing to get extatic about. It ruins EVERYONEs experience including their own.

It's like going for a 3 day trail treck in the mountains and only taking a pair of shorts/tshirt and some water. You are woefully ill equippped and its not gonna be fun.

The only argument I can make is maybe 4? I mean unless you play FP you have no way to get mechbays unless they want to spend $ which most new players won't. Also builds in FP vary from QP. Same with mechs you should use. For what its worth that Cadet just let a few people get an extra couple hundred dmg ha.

[justcallme A S H]

You need long range. It makes up some 40% of the map pool,

And long range, generally, isn't going to work on the shorter engagement maps unless you really know what you are doing. By that point it's largeley irrelevant as you'll already have dozens of mechs ready. Thus you really need around 8. 3 long range and the rest mid-range for the most part, that is the most flexible. Brawling is usually specific and more part of organised group play.


PGI Gives out MC now from events like confetti. It is VERY easy to get mechbays. From each weekly event often there is 300MC, that's enough for a mechbay or save up and wait for a sale. Hasn't been one for a while so that usually means one is coming, they are then 150MC.

[John Bronco]

Mech bays are on sale right now so stock up