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#181 Grumpy Old Man

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 01:55 PM

I am beginning to believe you are overthinking this. ;-)

Personally, I put a mixture of Firepower, Survival, Operations and Sensors on all my Mechs. I always pick at least the left side of the Survival Tree, unless I play a very squishy light. Having more raw HP means at least the OPFOR need to spend more heat to kill me. So I spend anything between 15 and 30 points on that.

Second out of the gate if Firepower. I tend to pick more heat reduction nodes, as heat that is avoided does not need to be cooled by heatsinks. Plus weapon specific improvements. I tend to spend around 30-40 points on that.

Depending on build, 11 points into Operations, to help with cooling. If I have a lot of LBX or AC weapons, I may skip this.

Sensors 9-10 points. I always get 60% Radar Deprivation and often Seismic Sensor. On Light Mechs I often get 2 points of Seismic Sensors.

Also always 1 value point into Auxiliary. I usually take a UAV and an Artillery Strike.

I vary these first 4 trees depending on Mech build.

#182 BLOODWOLF333

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 02:04 PM

View PostGrumpy Old Man, on 26 January 2020 - 01:55 PM, said:

I am beginning to believe you are overthinking this. ;-)


That's what Im good at man lol

#183 Horseman

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 03:47 PM

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 26 January 2020 - 12:58 PM, said:

And the UAC/5 (IS) having a volley delay of 0.5 while all other UAC's have a delay of 0.11. Kinda weird.
IS UAC5 fires only one projectile, so the value doesn't really matter.

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 26 January 2020 - 01:26 PM, said:

On my "Skill Priorities" section for what trees to prioritize based on the build (scout, firesupport, brawler) am I correct on the order of what trees are more important or what should be tweaked?
You are wrong.
Ignore the Jump Jets tree completely, it's worthless.
Mobility tree is only worth it if you're a light or fast medium, and then only really for the Speed Tweak. Remember that these buffs are multipliers to your base stats - therefore, you will only get back your investment on a mech that's already agile.
Survival tree is mandatory left side armor (8 armor) for nearly anything. You can then spec to 9 armor, 10 armor or full survival. Note that AMS boats will want both AMS Overload nodes.
Operations is worth it for heat-capped builds that run a lot of heat sinks. 4 to 5 Cool Runs, in some builds you might want to add Heat Containment but it's NOT a priority.

Sensors tree boils down to the following "builds":
  • Enhanced Zoom (for ERLL/Gauss/AC2 snipers and NOTHING else)
  • Target Decay (for LRM boats)
  • Radar Deprivation 60 / 100% (for lights and squishy fast mechs)
  • Enhanced ECM (for anything with an ECM equipped)
Aux tree is usually 2x Strikes on anything - it's free damage - and then either UAVs for scouts or Cool Shots for anything else excepting builds which don't produce enough heat for more than 1x unupgraded coolshot to be necessary (I have a 2x UAC5 SHD, for example, which doesn't really heat up much; I'm not saying it's a great build - it's not - but on this SHD it's about the only one that fits the quirks)

Firepower tree will vary the most depending on your build.
  • Pretty much anything with ammo-based weapons will want the corresponding ammo nodes.
  • Heat capped builds will want Heat Gen (obviously) and avoid the Cooldown nodes. Cooldown capped builds will want the exact opposite.
  • Long range snipers will want the range nodes.
  • Most laser mechs will want the Laser Duration nodes.
  • Projectile based weapons will want Velocity for better accuracy
  • High explosive is to all purposes a dead node. It increases critical damage to equipment, but doesn't increase the damage you deal to structure.
You might also want to check out Tarogato's guide: https://mwomercs.com...ryhard-edition/

#184 Vxheous

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 03:59 PM

View PostGrumpy Old Man, on 26 January 2020 - 01:55 PM, said:

I am beginning to believe you are overthinking this. ;-)

Personally, I put a mixture of Firepower, Survival, Operations and Sensors on all my Mechs. I always pick at least the left side of the Survival Tree, unless I play a very squishy light. Having more raw HP means at least the OPFOR need to spend more heat to kill me. So I spend anything between 15 and 30 points on that.

Second out of the gate if Firepower. I tend to pick more heat reduction nodes, as heat that is avoided does not need to be cooled by heatsinks. Plus weapon specific improvements. I tend to spend around 30-40 points on that.

Depending on build, 11 points into Operations, to help with cooling. If I have a lot of LBX or AC weapons, I may skip this.

Sensors 9-10 points. I always get 60% Radar Deprivation and often Seismic Sensor. On Light Mechs I often get 2 points of Seismic Sensors.

Also always 1 value point into Auxiliary. I usually take a UAV and an Artillery Strike.

I vary these first 4 trees depending on Mech build.


Here is the basic tree that I apply to basically 80-90% of my mechs, with very slight variations:

https://kitlaan.gitl...2211d#s=Weapons

It's 87/91 nodes assigned (with 4 nodes flex, to use for Adv zoom, or more cooldown nodes in weapons, etc).
This is the basic "hot build" tree. The Firepower tree has the best investment of all skill points, because there is literally no point used there that is useless (useless as in you're taking a point to unlock another point, not taking that point for the point itself, ops and agility tree being prime examples of waste for gain). +Range is always useful, -heatgen is always useful, -cooldown is always useful. Laser duration is useful if using lasers, if not, move those points to ballistic/missile ammo, and Jam chance/missile spread, depending on your weapons.

If it's a pure ballistic mech, then I would take the 18 nodes out of operations, and spread them out between more firepower and survival.

I never bother with Radar dep, I just use hard cover to stay away from missiles, and radar dep doesn't stop target wheel spotting, and any good player you come across will spam that target wheel for tracking anyways.

Edited by Vxheous, 26 January 2020 - 04:02 PM.


#185 Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 04:32 PM

View PostVxheous, on 26 January 2020 - 03:59 PM, said:


Here is the basic tree that I apply to basically 80-90% of my mechs, with very slight variations:

https://kitlaan.gitl...2211d#s=Weapons

It's 87/91 nodes assigned (with 4 nodes flex, to use for Adv zoom, or more cooldown nodes in weapons, etc).
This is the basic "hot build" tree. The Firepower tree has the best investment of all skill points, because there is literally no point used there that is useless (useless as in you're taking a point to unlock another point, not taking that point for the point itself, ops and agility tree being prime examples of waste for gain). +Range is always useful, -heatgen is always useful, -cooldown is always useful. Laser duration is useful if using lasers, if not, move those points to ballistic/missile ammo, and Jam chance/missile spread, depending on your weapons.

If it's a pure ballistic mech, then I would take the 18 nodes out of operations, and spread them out between more firepower and survival.

I never bother with Radar dep, I just use hard cover to stay away from missiles, and radar dep doesn't stop target wheel spotting, and any good player you come across will spam that target wheel for tracking anyways.


^
use that. most "bang for your buck" you can get out of the skillmaze.

#186 BLOODWOLF333

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 05:14 PM

View PostHorseman, on 26 January 2020 - 03:47 PM, said:

You might also want to check out Tarogato's guide: https://mwomercs.com...ryhard-edition/


Yep I read that whole post when I first started messing with the skill tree. Thats why I value the heat buffs from the Operation tree and unlock it first. But, like with my scout mechs, the Wolfhounds, they depend on their speed and mobility for survival more than armor so, I value the mobility tree over the survival tree for them. I should NOT be trying to brawl in those mechs. Just hit and run, which sometimes I forget my role, get tunnel-vision and try to kill something and end up dying because that's not what my mech is for.

#187 Crazycajun

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 07:12 PM

Been away from game for years...primarly because of team/sync drops against pugs.... finally come back to try the game and what the first game ? a clan drop/sync drop against my team of pugs...

nope.. /eject...

i had hoped that maybe the excuse for devs of this game had gotten round to neutering that. guess not

#188 Brauer

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 08:39 PM

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 26 January 2020 - 05:14 PM, said:


Yep I read that whole post when I first started messing with the skill tree. Thats why I value the heat buffs from the Operation tree and unlock it first. But, like with my scout mechs, the Wolfhounds, they depend on their speed and mobility for survival more than armor so, I value the mobility tree over the survival tree for them. I should NOT be trying to brawl in those mechs. Just hit and run, which sometimes I forget my role, get tunnel-vision and try to kill something and end up dying because that's not what my mech is for.


The survival tree is one of, if not the, highest priority trees. The longer you live the more chances you have to do damage and influence a match.

In the case of wolfhounds you add in that those mechs have armor quirks which are amplified by the skill tree, so you absolutely should be putting points into survival. IMO wolfhounds go fast enough without speed tweak.

View PostCrazycajun, on 26 January 2020 - 07:12 PM, said:

Been away from game for years...primarly because of team/sync drops against pugs.... finally come back to try the game and what the first game ? a clan drop/sync drop against my team of pugs...

nope.. /eject...

i had hoped that maybe the excuse for devs of this game had gotten round to neutering that. guess not


So based on what you said you went into Faction Warfare, the team mode, and you got upset that there was a team on the other side?

Edited by Brauer, 27 January 2020 - 04:14 AM.


#189 BLOODWOLF333

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 09:52 PM

There:

Posted Image

#190 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 26 January 2020 - 10:10 PM

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 26 January 2020 - 05:14 PM, said:


Yep I read that whole post when I first started messing with the skill tree. Thats why I value the heat buffs from the Operation tree and unlock it first. But, like with my scout mechs, the Wolfhounds, they depend on their speed and mobility for survival more than armor so, I value the mobility tree over the survival tree for them. I should NOT be trying to brawl in those mechs. Just hit and run, which sometimes I forget my role, get tunnel-vision and try to kill something and end up dying because that's not what my mech is for.


The skill tree choice should reflect your role. But, the skill tree becomes automated, like, for laser vomit, you have one good way to pick the nodes, for missiles, there's one way, there is a dakka tree, etc., That being said, you should also consider amplifying the quirks that the mech has.

Consider building a scout mech based on the weapons you're bringing on it. If you're relying on long range weapons for peeking early on, you might not need speed tweak. You could do well with taking Armour nodes instead. If you're bringing MPLs, you can bring double coolshots, max armour and speed tweaks while absolutely needing 60% Radar Dep. You can easily manage the heat after 4 alpha strikes by using torso weapons split up into two different weapon groups and arm as another group and go back to your primary torso-arm weapon group again. A partial Cool Run tree will help while not consuming too many skill points to get the last two.

Edited by FRAGTAST1C, 26 January 2020 - 10:10 PM.


#191 Bistrorider

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 05:16 AM

View PostBLOODWOLF333, on 21 January 2020 - 02:32 PM, said:

I know to listen to Ash and the other top tier players but, why is 5 MPLasers the best possible in every way build for a Wolfhound? On Polar Highlands I dont want to get that close to a good team near the center of the map where there is no cover. I've tried to run behind them, throw out a UAV, MPulse a few in the back....and then I'm dead. Id rather get behind and snipe them in the back with a PPC while Im behind a rock at a distance to harass them instead. Now Solaris City, 5 MPLaser works and gives me the highest alpha and makes sense. I want to say most of the time when Im playing the Wolfhound we are in big open maps which is why I am wanting a longer ranged weapon. Thats just been my experience so far.

I'm playing Wolfhound WLF 2R with 6 er sml lasers, las AMS and light engine (132 km/h) [wanted to put screenshot but this pop-up ("You are not allowed to use that image extension on this community". Tried JPG and GIF] and have plenty of fun with it. Good speed, decent armor, and short range which is forcing me to be near the action. This my answer for my "beloved" Piranha. I call it anti-Piranha mech. The only problem is a laser AMS. When there is many missiles it may get you hot. But the trade is you don't need any ammo. Mobility tree is always the last one I put points in. Mostly I don't put any points there. Speed tweaks are so far away Posted Image IMO mobility is something you can compensate with the way you move, feel and steer your mech. You can go full moblity tree but that won't help you if you can't steer your mech right.


Edited by Bistrorider, 27 January 2020 - 05:18 AM.


#192 Brauer

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 10:21 AM

View PostBistrorider, on 27 January 2020 - 05:16 AM, said:

I'm playing Wolfhound WLF 2R with 6 er sml lasers, las AMS and light engine (132 km/h) [wanted to put screenshot but this pop-up ("You are not allowed to use that image extension on this community". Tried JPG and GIF] and have plenty of fun with it. Good speed, decent armor, and short range which is forcing me to be near the action. This my answer for my "beloved" Piranha. I call it anti-Piranha mech. The only problem is a laser AMS. When there is many missiles it may get you hot. But the trade is you don't need any ammo. Mobility tree is always the last one I put points in. Mostly I don't put any points there. Speed tweaks are so far away Posted Image IMO mobility is something you can compensate with the way you move, feel and steer your mech. You can go full moblity tree but that won't help you if you can't steer your mech right.



You can run a wolfhound with 2 regular ams and 5mls or ermls. I'd avoid laser ams entirely, and it seems like 6ersml would be pretty anemic compared to other wolfhound builds. But if you're having fun go for it.

#193 Marquis De Lafayette

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 12:21 PM

View PostBistrorider, on 27 January 2020 - 05:16 AM, said:

I'm playing Wolfhound WLF 2R with 6 er sml lasers, las AMS and light engine (132 km/h) [wanted to put screenshot but this pop-up ("You are not allowed to use that image extension on this community". Tried JPG and GIF] and have plenty of fun with it. Good speed, decent armor, and short range which is forcing me to be near the action. This my answer for my "beloved" Piranha. I call it anti-Piranha mech. The only problem is a laser AMS. When there is many missiles it may get you hot. But the trade is you don't need any ammo. Mobility tree is always the last one I put points in. Mostly I don't put any points there. Speed tweaks are so far away Posted Image IMO mobility is something you can compensate with the way you move, feel and steer your mech. You can go full moblity tree but that won't help you if you can't steer your mech right.



As Others will say.....”do what you want”......but that LFE is gimping your build. Those ersml’s are basically as hot as ML’s with less range and firepower. If you lose a ST you won’t really live long with the cut in speed and the reduced Heat management will mean your “last gasp” damage output will be very limited. I know it seems smart to increase your survival ability, but it isn’t worth it in this case. Plus 5 mpls is really the “anti-piranha” wolfhound build anyway. But again....do as you wish....

#194 Xiphias

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 01:00 PM

View PostHorseman, on 26 January 2020 - 03:47 PM, said:

Mobility tree is only worth it if you're a light or fast medium, and then only really for the Speed Tweak.

Anchor turn is actually really useful/important for fast lights. Being able to turn faster lets you evade better, get behind cover faster, and stay behind mechs more easily. Don't underestimate its usefulness. Kinetic burst/hard brake can be useful when you're actively maneuvering, but anchor turn is the most important.

#195 Bistrorider

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 01:03 PM

View PostMarquis De Lafayette, on 27 January 2020 - 12:21 PM, said:

As Others will say.....”do what you want”......but that LFE is gimping your build. Those ersml’s are basically as hot as ML’s with less range and firepower. If you lose a ST you won’t really live long with the cut in speed and the reduced Heat management will mean your “last gasp” damage output will be very limited. I know it seems smart to increase your survival ability, but it isn’t worth it in this case. Plus 5 mpls is really the “anti-piranha” wolfhound build anyway. But again....do as you wish....


True, 5 mpls do better damage, and with their cooldown you can do some good hacksaw but it's also a hot build, maybe a little hotter than sml lasers. I've got like steady pinpoint for most of the time. And I have to get close which sometimes is very bad for a player like me, but also it's very challenging. And also, as for the lights, WLF is more forgiving mech than flea or piranha.

#196 BLOODWOLF333

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 01:59 PM

I don't see a bug report section on the forums anywhere but, has anyone else noticed if you go into Weapon Grouping, set that up, click save, then go to back or home or another tab the weapon grouping overlay remains sometimes covering up the UI behind it and have to go back to weapon grouping, change something and save to get it to go away?

I don't notice the target overlay keybind having any effect. And I know you can eject in Faction Play right? Doesnt work in training grounds and I don't think I've ever tried it in QP.

#197 justcallme A S H

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 02:23 PM

View PostCrazycajun, on 26 January 2020 - 07:12 PM, said:

Been away from game for years...primarly because of team/sync drops against pugs.... finally come back to try the game and what the first game ? a clan drop/sync drop against my team of pugs...

nope.. /eject...

i had hoped that maybe the excuse for devs of this game had gotten round to neutering that. guess not


what?

So if a bunch of people are in the same unit and drop at the same time - totally unknowingly - that's enough to make you quit a game?

lol.. K dude.

#198 VonBruinwald

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 02:25 PM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 27 January 2020 - 02:23 PM, said:

- totally unknowingly -


That's a stretch, just saying.

#199 Red Potato Standing By

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 02:53 PM

Even intentionally really how often does it happen in quick play? Not very often from what I see anyways.

#200 VonBruinwald

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Posted 27 January 2020 - 03:39 PM

View PostRed Potato Standing By, on 27 January 2020 - 02:53 PM, said:

Even intentionally really how often does it happen in quick play? Not very often from what I see anyways.


I tend to see it about once a week.

If it's just a couple of players I let it slide (although I do take company command and put them in separate lances (you'd be surprised how many complain about that)). If they stack and we lose I'll blame it on them just for the giggles.

When it's +5-6 players it's more than suspicious. Especially when they're all piloting the same mech.

Edit:

Either way, it's not enough to rage quit over.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 27 January 2020 - 03:41 PM.






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