228 replies to this topic

[VonBruinwald]

BLOODWOLF333, on 30 January 2020 - 02:32 PM, said:

Right, I misspoke. Your actual paying-customers and the die-hard fans. flashbacks of working at Ford and KIA dealerships

Only until you get their money...

[Bistrorider]

BLOODWOLF333, on 30 January 2020 - 06:11 PM, said:

And often I will have to yell at my teammates, "hey special one, move! You have arty incoming on you!"

Gorgeous phrase but it's too long. Just say "red smoke" and, for example, "red smoke on assaults", "red smoke on particular mech or player", "red smoke on right, left, this or that object, sector", "red smoke on me". Or just "red smoke" if you don't have time to say where exactly. For obvious reasons mechwarriors are allergic to red smoke.

[Brauer]

Bistrorider, on 31 January 2020 - 12:00 AM, said:

Gorgeous phrase but it's too long. Just say "red smoke" and, for example, "red smoke on assaults", "red smoke on particular mech or player", "red smoke on right, left, this or that object, sector", "red smoke on me". Or just "red smoke" if you don't have time to say where exactly. For obvious reasons mechwarriors are allergic to red smoke.

Or just "strike on me" "strike on _____". It's less ambiguous.

[Vxheous]

BLOODWOLF333, on 01 February 2020 - 11:16 PM, said:

So gauss rifles, if PGI wants to change how the weapons work and we have to manually charge the guass before firing, well then it should not exploded when crit'd if we were not actively charging the coils. GR's exploded on a critical hit in battletech because the capacitors are storing the charge required. So, this change PGI made while keeping the GR explosion on crit is illogical.

It was to balance how OP gauss rifles were in a good players hands

[VonBruinwald]

BLOODWOLF333, on 01 February 2020 - 11:16 PM, said:

So gauss rifles, if PGI wants to change how the weapons work and we have to manually charge the guass before firing, well then it should not exploded when crit'd if we were not actively charging the coils. GR's exploded on a critical hit in battletech because the capacitors are storing the charge required. So, this change PGI made while keeping the GR explosion on crit is illogical.

Vxheous, on 01 February 2020 - 11:48 PM, said:

It was to balance how OP gauss rifles were in a good players hands

And to break up the Gauss+PPC meta.

The PPC should have been the one with charge up. Could have made Light/SnPPC's more useful by giving them shorter charge time and Heavy PPC's a longer one while also removing the minimum range penalty.

[Bistrorider]

VonBruinwald, on 02 February 2020 - 01:35 AM, said:

And to break up the Gauss+PPC meta.

Had 2 gausses, 2 ERPPC's in Fafnir. Shooting them one by one instantly = heat bug (at least for me). Heat 100%, reactor off, dead. No more meta for me. Heat bug = meta breaker. LOL

Imo PPC projectile is flying to slow to be charged up. It's gonna be very hard to use it.

[Vxheous]

VonBruinwald, on 02 February 2020 - 01:35 AM, said:

And to break up the Gauss+PPC meta.

It didn't though, because it's easy to just start charge up on gauss, then let go as your fire PPCs to sync them. It took ghost heat linking of Gauss and ERPPCs to remove that alpha potential. Gauss charge was added because it was too easy to brawl with a 15 damage 1 heat high velocity pinpoint weapon, and it basically invalidated AC20s and AC10s back in the day.

Bistrorider, on 02 February 2020 - 06:11 AM, said:

Had 2 gausses, 2 ERPPC's in Fafnir. Shooting them one by one instantly = heat bug (at least for me). Heat 100%, reactor off, dead. No more meta for me. Heat bug = meta breaker. LOL

Imo PPC projectile is flying to slow to be charged up. It's gonna be very hard to use it.

The heat bug doesn't spike your heat to 100%, and firing them in pairs with a 0.5 sec delay doesn't give ghost heat. (literally fire both at same time, and by the time gauss charge is ready for release the ghost heat time is gone). I still run 2 Gauss 2 ERPPC on a few mechs, and it still plays just fine.

Edited by Vxheous, 02 February 2020 - 06:57 AM.

[Bistrorider]

Thanks for advice Vxheous. I'm gonna try this way.

[martian]

BLOODWOLF333, on 30 January 2020 - 06:11 PM, said:

And often I will have to yell at my teammates, "hey special one, move! You have arty incoming on you!" Because they have tunnel vision and dont realize there is red smoke right at their feet.

Do not bother with that "artillery strike incoming" warning - they are going to find it out soon enough.

Honestly, before some particular player realizes that you are warning him, and before he decides that he could actually move, the arty is already on top of him anyway.

[justcallme A S H]

VonBruinwald, on 02 February 2020 - 01:35 AM, said:

And to break up the Gauss+PPC meta.

No it wasn't. It was purely for Gauss(dual) + any weapons and all it really did was increase the skill level required to use it.

To break the META was the Ghost Heat linkage of PPC/Gauss. But then PGI brought in new weapons and the Gauss/Peep ghost heat link was largely irrelevant and it should have been removed.

[justcallme A S H]

BLOODWOLF333, on 02 February 2020 - 04:02 PM, said:

Did faction play today with my unit and it pissed me the hell off. Alpha gate on the Caustic Valley Siege Mode is a complete **** gate to go through. How do you win Siege Mode when on the attack? You cant fit more than 2-3 assault mechs through the gate at one time so why the hell does everyone take assault mechs first? And then every consecutive wave after the first is weaker and weaker. Why not 3 assaults, 3 heavy, 3 medium, and 3 light every wave? They know to watch the little hill were you can direct fire on the generators so, if no one brought LRM's then your pretty screwed. And how would you know if nobody brought LRM's and that you need to to begin with? Timid assault mechs who backpedal when we are supposed to be pushing through the gates. And then sometimes we get stalled and everyone just sits outside the gate trying to snipe, halting all momentum, and we go no where. I ******* hate faction play right now.

Faction Play is NOT for new players. It is no more simple or difficult than that. That point cannot be stressed enough.

Once you are no longer new to MWO (circa, 2 full drop decks of skilled mechs)... Then look at Faction. Not before, ever. Ideally you want more, but thats the bare minimum. You cannot have garbage loadouts, they must be able to compete with other likeminded individuals who will bring proper builds or you will get smoked. Of course plenty of opponents will have rubbish builds - don't be like them.


That out the way... Alpha Gate first wave is one of the easier gates. Never go BETA. Everyone needs tonnage first. No Lights or Meds... Mix of heavy/Assaults is good. You just need a least 2-3 JJ/poptart mechs to suppress and move into top right inside of the gate. The rest need to be heavy traders - dakka preferrable. You cannot YOLO Sulferous wave 1 due to the chokepoints. Trade carefully and use the middle ridge well. Airstrikes/Atry strikes are a mandatory requirement to dislodge entrenched opponents.

And no - that hill you cannot direct fire the generators. Their 'openings/hitbox' faces inward. You don't shoot the actual generator itself. If you are doing that or even trying, you are again too new for Faction Play.

Never bring LRMs. You need comms, you need to be organised.

And I dont mean this in the wrong way - even though it'll come out like that - Faction Play generally is not enjoyable for low skill users. Bad builds, poor play, you will get eaten alive there. Tier 5/Tier 4 Quickplay is 20 stories below in skill to what you will see in Faction as a new player.


I'll be streaming Faction later, check my twitch in my sig. No doubt you'll learn plenty. Not sure when though, maybe 2-4hrs, work being unpredictable. Ill likely have a group going and we'll be attacking. Attacking is NOT easy and that is why I enjoy it. Ask questions, I usually have the 'who's who' of top tier players in my chat and everyone is legit - beyond helpful. You will learn more in 1-2hrs watching/asking Qs than you will in a month reading some of the garbage that gets posted here on the forums.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 02 February 2020 - 04:24 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Yes you have gates right.

I can "try" and draw it on the map, but it's really hard unless using mega zoomed in and i spend 30mins in MS paint as there is no Faction Maps in out Comp Play map tools we have available for public use HERE

It is honestly easier to just watch and I'll talk through it as I go, well, try to. In a sweaty game (as attacking is harder) I can go a bit quiet while I'm focused as I'm usually dropcalling too so to viewers im a bit mute. Just cannot shake that habit. People like Lurmgod / Jay Z (amazing streamers/players) can talk while they play but I just can't get my brain around it.

[VigorousApathy]

Alpha gate can work, but some mid range mechs need to go up the hill on the right of the gate, facing inward. If they can drop into c3/d3 line and then poke the d2 corner, it makes the advance a bit easier for the guys taking the inside corner d4->d3->e3. You want to spread your guns so theres multiple angles facing e3 platform.

[thievingmagpi]

BLOODWOLF333, on 02 February 2020 - 04:02 PM, said:

Did faction play today with my unit and it pissed me the hell off. Alpha gate on the Sulfurous Rift Siege Mode is a complete **** gate to go through. How do you win Siege Mode when on the attack? You cant fit more than 2-3 assault mechs through the gate at one time so why the hell does everyone take assault mechs first? And then every consecutive wave after the first is weaker and weaker. Why not 3 assaults, 3 heavy, 3 medium, and 3 light every wave? They know to watch the little hill were you can direct fire on the generators so, if no one brought LRM's then your pretty screwed. And how would you know if nobody brought LRM's and that you need to to begin with? Timid assault mechs who backpedal when we are supposed to be pushing through the gates. And then sometimes we get stalled and everyone just sits outside the gate trying to snipe, halting all momentum, and we go no where. I ******* hate faction play right now.

FP is hardmode. Though congrats on wanting to get into it. If you go up against either a reasonably organized team, attacking can be really tough. I've seen good players get dunked on by bad players just as a result of numbers and co-ordination. I've seen decent and coordinated groups get shredded by tryhard sweaty solo farmers It happens. I play maybe 1 or 2 FP a month and have been playing it on and off since it first came out and I still get Ultrafarmed, and I'm reasonably okay at Quickplay.

It's daunting, can be very frustrating but it's also a lot of fun.

[Prototelis]

Protip;

If there's a stack on defense you're allowed to call them out on it if you lose; if you win you're required to tell them they're bad.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

BLOODWOLF333, on 02 February 2020 - 04:51 PM, said:

We couldn't even make it past the hills into the D3 grid. And then everyone held outside the gate playing the sniper game stalling for like 5 minutes and the MRM is the longest range weapon I had so, very frustrating.

well, to keep it short:
do as ash suggests above.

also:
since you're fresh to the mode - drop with others. FW is ALL about teamplay, so do drops with teams that already are familiar with the mode. usually, they pick likeminded people up for the next drop and so on -
so unless you're a lurmleecher or the special snowflake that doesn't listen to comms, there is your BEST opportunity to learn the ropes of FW.

it is a different beast to QP though; you can do everything right and still get eaten alive, match after match after match; otoh it is the best mode left in rotatoe-warrior-online, and if you get your kicks out of teamplay - stick with it. it's worth the invested time to learn, cause it offers so much fun with -and against!- the right people

[Bistrorider]

BLOODWOLF333, on 02 February 2020 - 04:02 PM, said:

Did faction play today with my unit and it pissed me the hell off. Alpha gate on the Sulfurous Rift Siege Mode is a complete **** gate to go through. How do you win Siege Mode when on the attack? You cant fit more than 2-3 assault mechs through the gate at one time so why the hell does everyone take assault mechs first? And then every consecutive wave after the first is weaker and weaker. Why not 3 assaults, 3 heavy, 3 medium, and 3 light every wave? They know to watch the little hill were you can direct fire on the generators so, if no one brought LRM's then your pretty screwed. And how would you know if nobody brought LRM's and that you need to to begin with? Timid assault mechs who backpedal when we are supposed to be pushing through the gates. And then sometimes we get stalled and everyone just sits outside the gate trying to snipe, halting all momentum, and we go no where. I ******* hate faction play right now.

Been with the Bloodwolf in FP for like 3 drops yesterday. We were fighting fiercely and stomping proudly but we have lost. Too bad that clanners didn't die from laughing when they saw our team. We had urbie in a first drop and some trials. The same goes at another match and another. There must be some restriction for FP. Like you can't play it with trials, you can't play it with mechs that are unskilled (91 points and "wings" should be obligatory). And current challenge should be for QP only. I did the same mistake once. Had like 2 or 1 mechs when I started playing so I took trials to one FP game. But I quickly understood my mistake and started to stock mechs before I played FP againg. So my think is if you're taking trials to FP one battle after other you're smoking to much weed or you don't give a sh.t about your team. I'm still very green in FP but I'm trying to listen what people who are good at FP are saying to me. And they said: First push must be successful. You have to do as much destruction to the defender as you can. If you lose first push like 0:12, 1:12 (like we yesterday) you're chances to win are almost none. So it must be assaults and heavy mostly for first push. Maybe one light or medium joker to do some deception and open the gate quickly. I like what Bloodwolf wrote here because at least he knows what happened. Yes, we stucked at the gate at first pushes. I still don't know how to push properly in FP. I know theory: move through the left or right edge of the map or wherever you wanna push. Shoot and don't stop, because people behind you gonna have like domino effect. And we had domino yesterday. The most critical moment is when you are going through the gate and you're under fire. You wanna cover and shoot back. It's almost like unconditioned reflex. But you have to fight that reflex and move move move. The problem is people behind you have to do the same... We lost beacuse we screwed up first pushes. Whatever our strange mixed lot of trials and urbies was, we still had a chance. First pushes decided all. As for me I did many small idiotic individual mistakes yesterday in those FP plays. But small mistake is a big problem in FP. Other thing, attacking is very hard. It's not the proper war philosophy which says that attacker advantage should be like 3 to 1. Here attacker is always in disadvantage. Opening some gates is like trying to put your leg into your a.s.s. Thanks for all who did great last stand with me on Boreal Vault (We should attack, but we were defending near the gate, cause clanners were counteratacking). At least we took some clanners with us and tired them a little.

Edited by Bistrorider, 03 February 2020 - 04:58 AM.

[Dimento Graven]

BLOODWOLF333, on 01 February 2020 - 11:16 PM, said:

So gauss rifles, if PGI wants to change how the weapons work and we have to manually charge the guass before firing, well then it should not exploded when crit'd if we were not actively charging the coils. GR's exploded on a critical hit in battletech because the capacitors are storing the charge required. So, this change PGI made while keeping the GR explosion on crit is illogical.

Here's my current feelings on the whole "gauss rifle explosion" situation.

I use gauss rifles extensively and compared to a lot of malf'd weapons, they're in a pretty fair state. The suffer the hit registration/damage registration problems equally with all other ballistics and PPC's ^(*) , so "meh" there (if PGI were to suddenly perfect hit/damage registration, maybe my opinion on that would be different).

HOWEVER, the construction of gauss rifles does NOT need to be made from "explodium".

I would tie the damage and chance of explosion directly to the amount of charge in the weapon when "crit'd":

IS Gauss - Charge vs. Chance of Explosion and Damage:
10% charge - 10% chance of explosion, damage = 10%
20% charge - 20% chance of explosion, damage = 20%
... so on and so forth

Clan Gauss - Charge vs. Chance of Explosion and Damage:
10% charge - 10% chance of explosion, damage = 7%
20% charge - 10% chance of explosion, damage = 14%
... so on and so forth

You could adjust the damage up and down for both heavy and light versions of the gauss as well...

Clans having the smaller version of the regular version of the weapon already have a smaller chance for being crit'd (less slots = less chance of being crit'd), and the less mass/fewer capacitors would result in smaller damage output.

^(*) The comment I made about hit/damage registration will of course bring out the white knights to tell us that hit/damage registration is perfect...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 03 February 2020 - 06:51 AM.

[Vxheous]

Dimento Graven, on 03 February 2020 - 06:38 AM, said:

Here's my current feelings on the whole "gauss rifle explosion" situation.

I use gauss rifles extensively and compared to a lot of malf'd weapons, they're in a pretty fair state. The suffer the hit registration/damage registration problems equally with all other ballistics and PPC's ^(*) , so "meh" there (if PGI were to suddenly perfect hit/damage registration, maybe my opinion on that would be different).

HOWEVER, the construction of gauss rifles does NOT need to be made from "explodium".

I would tie the damage and chance of explosion directly to the amount of charge in the weapon when "crit'd":

IS Gauss - Charge vs. Chance of Explosion and Damage:
10% charge - 10% chance of explosion, damage = 10%
20% charge - 20% chance of explosion, damage = 20%
... so on and so forth

Clan Gauss - Charge vs. Chance of Explosion and Damage:
10% charge - 10% chance of explosion, damage = 7%
20% charge - 10% chance of explosion, damage = 14%
... son on and so forth

You could adjust the damage up and down for both heavy and light versions of the gauss as well...

Clans having the smaller version of the regular version of the weapon already have a smaller chance for being crit'd (less slots = less chance of being crit'd), and the less mass/fewer capacitors would result in smaller damage output.

^(*) The comment I made about hit/damage registration will of course bring out the white knights to tell us that hit/damage registration is perfect...

Gauss is fine, stop trying to break the game worse.

[Dimento Graven]

Vxheous, on 03 February 2020 - 06:43 AM, said:

Gauss is fine, stop trying to break the game worse.

You're wrong.

This would be making a small change to the weapon that would make sense, vs., a 90%/100% chance of explosion, regardless of charge level.