226 replies to this topic

[w4ldO]

FRAGTAST1C, on 18 January 2020 - 02:42 AM, said:

Are you worried about making sure THEIR stats tank instead of improving yours? You can do that by the following methods....

1. Stop dying within the first minute of enemy contact

2. Get 500 damage minimum

3. Get a kill or two

>reddit spacing, implying, advice that is well known after 20 years of online gaming

[Toothless]

My entire jarls list is solo QP non meta mechs (often quite stupid builds to be honest) in T1 played mostly very drunkenly (Note: Sober since October, havent played MWO since...is there a connection? ) and still Im typically in the upper percentiles. I dont think it has anything to do with anything other than Ive played MWO since its inception, have lived in QP playing solo for the entire existence of the game, and thus have a lay of the land that enables casual QP bad builds AND winning.

So Im sure Id get toasted by the true elites of the game most of the time, because they are better than me, but even if you set yourself up for "failure" (AKA playing purely for fun) you can still rank higher than you do, because you know not to **** around in an Arctic Cheetah with a ERLL "spotting" the whole match, even if you're hammered drunk.

[PhoenixFire55]

w4ldO, on 17 January 2020 - 02:57 PM, said:

career W/L is a very dumb measurement. that would mean you dont take progression into account. a player that sports a 2.0 W/L over the last 4 seasons but below 1.0 career W/L is still a liability by that logic.

Go and find at least one such player. They don't exist. But it shows how much you actually understand.
And again, fyi, big boys and girls have been discussing all these MM issues for 7 years here, about 4-5 years before you've even joined. Do me a favor and do go and educate yourself using all those threads before you yap about someone not understanding something.

[FRAGTAST1C]

w4ldO, on 18 January 2020 - 02:55 AM, said:

>reddit spacing, implying, advice that is well known after 20 years of online gaming

And yet, here you are unable to understand how to read stats.

[w4ldO]

FRAGTAST1C, on 18 January 2020 - 07:17 AM, said:

And yet, here you are unable to understand how to read stats.

>b8

PhoenixFire55, on 18 January 2020 - 04:03 AM, said:

Go and find at least one such player.

granted, finding such a diamond-hoofed unicorn that poops golden nuggets all day from my synthetical hypothesis will be hard to come by.
but there are various examples in jarl where you can see a player progressing. heck even your own stats show a player progression from season 6 onwards.

but you do you. i'm outa here. time to do something with my time that won't remind me of Sisyphus.

Edited by w4ldO, 18 January 2020 - 07:54 AM.

[Jman5]

_Magno_, on 16 January 2020 - 04:32 PM, said:

Here's a legitimate question about getting better.

If you legitimately want to see what's going wrong, record four matches on twitch or youtube. We all thinks what we're doing is right because otherwise we wouldn't do it!

Quote

4 games in a row. I go out with decent mechs.

1. I'm sure you believe your build is decent, but without looking at it and the skill tree we don't really know for sure. I'm not calling you a liar. I'm just saying that we don't know what we don't know.

Quote

4 games in a row I stay close with the team, am patient, and watching out for targets, looking for soft spots, positioning well, not getting caught in artillery strikes, etc..

2. The lines between over-aggression, patient timing, and passivity are thin and completely context based. Usually you want to be as aggressive as you can get away with. Maybe you're judging it well, but maybe you're not. Without actually seeing your decision making in game, it's impossible for us to know.

Quote

4 games in a row, comms telling players to be careful over extending.

3. It's great that you're communicating, but how you are communicating is even more important. Saying "don't over-extend" in chat the start of the match is practically useless. Without seeing what you're saying, how you're saying it, and when you're saying we can't offer any meaningful advice about your comms.

Quote

4 games in a row 2 mechs on our side go down immediately. We're on our heels, and 4 games in a row it gets down to 4 v 9 and then its surrounded and just go down swinging.

4. Not every game is easily winnable with this one simple trick. Being down pilots early is very hard to come back from. I don't think there is anything practical I can briefly say that will turn things around. It boils down to your team outplaying your opponent dramatically to overcome the firepower/hitpoint deficit, or them making similar mistakes before things snowball. The how of that would take up an entire guide.

Quote

I know there is still plenty to learn and master in this game, its why I love it, but often times there are conditions that are very difficult to surmount for the purposes of protecting a good ranking.

As I said above you can't win them all. This is a team game and even the best players can only provide so much value to the team. Your goal is to just win a little more than last season. There are people just like you who are winning a little more, so what are some of the things they are doing differently? Fight your ego! It's going to want to throw out a million external justifications for why it's not really your fault. Don't believe it. They're doing something right, you're doing something wrong. That doesn't make you stupid, just means you're human. The next move is to figure out the what! You can do that by posting videos of your play to try to get pointers, you can watch videos of good players and try to pick up on some things they do well. You can do it by experimenting and playing different. When you experiment, don't be afraid of failure. I go through ten dumb ideas before one of them actually works out. Using data helps keep me honest.

Edited by Jman5, 18 January 2020 - 01:15 PM.

[Scout Derek]

w4ldO, on 18 January 2020 - 07:54 AM, said:

i'm outa here. time to do something with my time that won't remind me of Sisyphus.

Quote

but you do you

You too, buddy. I hope people in-game read this and realize that players of lower skill shouldn't be listened to even more, because all they do is spout off weird excuses like using their own kid as a reason to why they're playing bad. That's pretty low, and probably the worst excuse I've seen from time to time when reading complaints as to why people are playing not so good.

Here's the thing, it's okay to admit you're bad at the game, I admit I was absolute trash at the game, and if you go around asking some of the better players they'll admit too they were bad at the game from the beginning. Don't go getting upset and making up excuses that you know how to play the game if you don't. That's just a fallacy of false authority, which here is saying that because people play all the mechs, non meta, and that if they "command", that they know how to play the game.

It's one thing to play for a long time, and another to play well.

Edited by Scout Derek, 18 January 2020 - 10:29 AM.

[VonBruinwald]

w4ldO, on 18 January 2020 - 07:54 AM, said:

but you do you. i'm outa here. time to do something with my time that won't remind me of Sisyphus.

[YueFei]

Jman5, on 18 January 2020 - 10:14 AM, said:

If you legitimately want to see what's going wrong, record four matches on twitch or youtube. We all thinks what we're doing is right because otherwise we wouldn't do it!

Watching video of yourself is an incredible tool for improvement.

I once watched a video clip of myself that was about 20 seconds long and I spotted myself doing 5 dumb things in that timespan. Some of those mistakes I got away without being punished for it, but still...

These mistakes range from big to small. Some smaller mistakes are more subtle, like reticule placement whilst peeking. Instead of smoothly and mindfully traversing the reticule in a coordinated fashion with the movement around a pillar, it was janky, leading to hastily trying to snap the aimpoint onto a target when it appeared. Other mistakes were more glaring, like not properly "pieing" around a pillar and exposing to 2 enemies simultaneously... and then hilariously I see my reticule flicker between the two enemy mechs in a moment of indecision as to which one I should try to shoot at...

[ShiverMeRivets]

To the OP,

You whole approach to this is wrong - it is not a matter of whether jarl’s list means anything, it is a matter of giving zero ###ks what the people on this board think.

Do whatever you enjoy, don’t take anyone too seriously. Especially those that stress out about stats - they may know how to play, but they do not know fun.

[Khobai]

justcallme A S H, on 17 January 2020 - 04:02 PM, said:

Well given you don't play - you have no idea what you're talking about as usual.

That's the point.

Plus it is EASY to discern when GroupQ vs Solo stat players in Jarls. Even when people cross over between the two. You just need to know what your looking at. I mean we know you don't understand numbers, I've proven you wrong on so many occasions it's almost sad.

I agree its easy to identify group players from solo players when all they play is one or the other. But more often than not people who play in group queue also play in solo queue. And it is completely impossible to discern group vs solo stats when players do both because the stats are inseparably blended together.

Why would you even try to argue otherwise? You know im right. When you play both group and solo queue, you cant prove which stats came from group queue and which stats came from solo queue. That is an inarguable fact which you seem to ignorantly and foolishly want to argue anyway. No amount of looking at the stats is going to let you determine which stats came from where, because its absolutely impossible to derive.

You claim you can tell the difference between solo and group stats. Okay so why dont you definitively break down your stats for us and tell us how many games are solo games and how many games are group games. And what type of game each of your stats came from? Oh you cant? Because youre !@#$ing wrong as usual.

Also the concept of players having multiple accounts still seems to elude you; which only further proves how ignorant you are. I havent played on this account in 3 years that doesnt mean I dont play the game on a different account. You literally cannot formulate a winning coherent argument and instead you constantly have to resort to statshaming people or accusing them of not playing the game. Whether or not I play the game, or whether or not im good or bad at the game, has absolutely zero bearing on the fact that solo and group queue stats are not separated in jarl's list. Those two things are 100% uncorrelated. When you try to win an argument by arguing a completely different and unrelated point its called a strawman argument; they are fallacious arguments that have no relevance.

Furthermore stating an opinion in direct opposition of my opinion is not proving me wrong. Its simply your toxic narcissistic attitude that makes you believe your opinion is fact when in reality its just an opinion. The problem is you dont even know the difference anymore because youre so full of yourself. But in this instance its very much a fact, and not merely my opinion, that jarl's list does not separate solo and group stats. therefore i have proven you wrong.

Edited by Khobai, 19 January 2020 - 05:36 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

It's not _THAT_ hard to work out.

You just have to know how to read the numbers.

You have shown a distinct lack of understanding when it comes to numbers over years upon years of misleading users with incorrect numbers and calculations about MWO and its functions.

Just stop.

[Khobai]

if its not that hard to figure out you should be able to break down your stats for us game by game. tell us how many group games youve played and how many solo games youve played. And which stats came from which type of games.

If I lack the understanding then I implore you to prove me wrong. Come on prove it. I am waiting.

The person that needs to stop is you. Because you are wrong. You cant admit you are wrong. And you are continuing to argue a point that is wrong. Jarl's list does not separate solo and group stats and if it was as easy to tell the difference as you claim you should have no problem providing me with the precise stat breakdown im asking for. But you cant do it because you know damn well its blended together in a way that cant be separated.

Edited by Khobai, 19 January 2020 - 05:46 AM.

[Brauer]

Khobai, on 19 January 2020 - 05:39 AM, said:

if its not that hard to figure out you should be able to break down your stats for us game by game. tell us how many group games youve played and how many solo games youve played. And which stats came from which type of games.

If I lack the understanding then I implore you to prove me wrong. Come on prove it. I am waiting.

The person that needs to stop is you. Because you are wrong. You cant admit you are wrong. And you are continuing to argue a point that is wrong. Jarl's list does not separate solo and group stats and if it was as easy to tell the difference as you claim you should have no problem providing me with the precise stat breakdown im asking for. But you cant do it because you know damn well its blended together in a way that cant be separated.

Again, GroupQ is dead and Jarl's weighs more recent seasons more heavily, plus iirc there is a way to look at stats from only a certain range of seasons. So while it would be helpful to separate GroupQ and solo stats this point is entirely irrelevant now, even if it was ever terribly relevant. Continuing to claim GroupQ is contaminating the data is arguing in bad faith at this point, because there's basically no GroupQ data to muddy the waters.

Even when groupq was active it was only likely to improve wlr and kdr for people who dropped in strong groups. There's simply much less damage to go around when you are dropping with high level players. As an example, all of my top FW scores are from when I dropped solo, not when I dropped with other MJ12s, because when I drop with other skilled players I have much more competition for kills and damage, and time to kill shrinks substantially. That effect will scale with the skill of your team, so it'll be even more dramatic for EmP GroupQ drops, and potentially reverse if people drop with a group that can hardly shoot straight.

FYI it took a player organized GroupQ event to get any matches running in GroupQ last Friday, and other than that you can basically search perpetually for a match at this point.

Edited by Brauer, 19 January 2020 - 06:21 AM.

[Prototelis]

It's easy to tell when someone has played enough GQ to influence a season. lawl.

What even in is this thread now.

It went from mad cuz bad, to i'M bAd On PuRpOsE, to No my teams are always bad, all the way to yOuR sTaTs LiE

[Ignatius Audene]

We got to the"i am not bad it is the mm argument".

If you lose more than u win over 1000s of matches there is one constant in every match. Losing streaks happen. And then comes a winning streak...

One constant part in every match remain..
So pls repeat if u are under 1.0 w/l, it is because of YOU. Not the mm, no meta, no stompy premades just You.
It's ok. But don't blame your team, mm....
.
....
..

Edited by Ignatius Audene, 19 January 2020 - 08:01 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Khobai, on 19 January 2020 - 05:39 AM, said:

. Jarl's list does not separate solo and group stats and if it was as easy to tell the difference as you claim you should have no problem providing me with the precise stat breakdown im asking for. But you cant do it because you know damn well its blended together in a way that cant be separated.

I may be a good example case to use here. My own stats sure seem to suggest that there is no correlation between better stats and consistent GQ play.

Since skills tree to June of 2019 I have been a 90 percent (probably closer to 95%) GQ player. My stats for that period are most certainly mediocre (or frankly poor if we are being honest). The trends over time reflect my regular, mostly minor, ups and downs, depending on if I bit the bullet to level a new mech or did something provocatively stupid (or not) for an extended period. Since the June maintenance mode announcement and the death of GQ, I think we had maybe 5 GQ drops here and there; and all the rest in solo queue. And look at that, my stats are still mediocre playing solo queue (please, don't even start with "but sync droppers dominate the solo queue" nonsense; our group of 4-8 is typically split on opposing teams, and more often than not across 2-3 separate drops).

Bottom line, from my own performance and from what I seen in others over the years, is that the people who are good at this game have good long term stats, and those of us who are not as good at it, have correspondingly poorer stats reflecting our lesser skills, etc. GQ or SQ makes no appreciable difference.

Edited by Bud Crue, 19 January 2020 - 08:37 AM.

[Khobai]

Bud Crue, on 19 January 2020 - 08:36 AM, said:

I may be a good example case to use here. My own stats sure seem to suggest that there is no correlation between better stats and consistent GQ play.

I dont doubt that youre right. My point was simply that there is no way for you to prove it. You are simply asking me to take your word for it which does not constitute actual proof. The inability to distinguish between solo and group games is one of the inherent limitations of jarl's list.

And yes good players will have better stats in the long run. I am not refuting that. My point was simply that jarl's list has limitations and as such should not be used as the sole means of determining if a player is good or not. And your stats certainly should not determine the validity of your opinion or justify behavior like statshaming. I find it hilarious that players like Ash measure people's value by their MWO stats, because their only way of validating themselves in life is how good they are at MWO. Whereas most normal people simply dont care about stats one way or another.

Edited by Khobai, 19 January 2020 - 12:31 PM.

[Bud Crue]

Khobai, on 19 January 2020 - 12:26 PM, said:

And your stats certainly should not determine the validity of your opinion or justify behavior like statshaming. I find it hilarious that players like Ash measure people's value by their MWO stats, because their only way of validating themselves in life is how good they are at MWO. Whereas most normal people simply dont care about stats one way or another.

Stats are there to be analyzed, compared and used as a tool to improve. I've always taken Ash's (and others like him) view that he is silent as to a persons "value" but rather just thinks that if you are a scrub player (as reflected by one's stats) that you simply have no business telling others how to play the game. A person may be a lovely individual IRL, but if you haven't played in a long time, or have bad long term stats, or are one of those people who is a self described non-optimal, niche player (e.g. LRMS ARE THE BESTEST!, I LIVE TO BRAWL NO MATTER WHAT! MWO OUGHT TO BE LIKE TT!, etc.) or otherwise have proven that you don't play the game at the highest level (as reflected by your stats and any empirical experience playing with you), you should probably have a little humility and be very careful with how you conduct yourself in terms of being an expert as to the game's mechanics and advising others regarding same. Imho, he and other's like him, are demonstrably experts at all facets of the game, and though I may not like their arrogance or attitude or whatever (I couldn't care less), I can't deny that they know what they are talking about when it comes to MWO and what it takes to be good at the game. "Normal people" may not care about stats (in your view), but I don't begrudge the person who wants to "git gud" from listening to those whose stats make clear that they are experts at the game and ignoring the likes of someone like me.

[RickySpanish]

Ash showed me the way of the H-PPC Grasshopper when I asked for Grasshopper build advice on the forums. The man knows what he is talking about. I don't think people tend to attack each other personally in these discussions, only their dodgy gameplay advice.