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The Fallacy Of "jarl's List = Knowledge"


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#61 _Magno_

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 04:32 PM

Here's a legitimate question about getting better.

4 games in a row. I go out with decent mechs.

4 games in a row I stay close with the team, am patient, and watching out for targets, looking for soft spots, positioning well, not getting caught in artillery strikes, etc..

4 games in a row, comms telling players to be careful over extending.

4 games in a row 2 mechs on our side go down immediately. We're on our heels, and 4 games in a row it gets down to 4 v 9 and then its surrounded and just go down swinging.

How would "good" players recover from these conditions in game?

Because these conditions put you in positions to:

lose
limit damage output
limit kills when dying to focus fire

I know there is still plenty to learn and master in this game, its why I love it, but often times there are conditions that are very difficult to surmount for the purposes of protecting a good ranking.

#62 Vxheous

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 05:05 PM

View Post_Magno_, on 16 January 2020 - 04:32 PM, said:

Here's a legitimate question about getting better.

4 games in a row. I go out with decent mechs.

4 games in a row I stay close with the team, am patient, and watching out for targets, looking for soft spots, positioning well, not getting caught in artillery strikes, etc..

4 games in a row, comms telling players to be careful over extending.

4 games in a row 2 mechs on our side go down immediately. We're on our heels, and 4 games in a row it gets down to 4 v 9 and then its surrounded and just go down swinging.

How would "good" players recover from these conditions in game?

Because these conditions put you in positions to:

lose
limit damage output
limit kills when dying to focus fire

I know there is still plenty to learn and master in this game, its why I love it, but often times there are conditions that are very difficult to surmount for the purposes of protecting a good ranking.


Positioning well means being able to be aggressive, without being punished for that aggressiveness. It does not mean passive play. What you are doing is passive play. Positioning well is taking good angles so you can constantly out-number shooters on enemy targets, while limiting return fire from less opponents that can shoot back at you.

Edited by Vxheous, 16 January 2020 - 05:06 PM.


#63 Brauer

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 05:42 PM

View Post_Magno_, on 16 January 2020 - 04:32 PM, said:

Here's a legitimate question about getting better.

4 games in a row. I go out with decent mechs.

4 games in a row I stay close with the team, am patient, and watching out for targets, looking for soft spots, positioning well, not getting caught in artillery strikes, etc..

4 games in a row, comms telling players to be careful over extending.

4 games in a row 2 mechs on our side go down immediately. We're on our heels, and 4 games in a row it gets down to 4 v 9 and then its surrounded and just go down swinging.

How would "good" players recover from these conditions in game?

Because these conditions put you in positions to:

lose
limit damage output
limit kills when dying to focus fire

I know there is still plenty to learn and master in this game, its why I love it, but often times there are conditions that are very difficult to surmount for the purposes of protecting a good ranking.


In addition to Vx's advice, keep in mind that over enough games the ones where your team is made of wet-cardboard and just about everyone but you DDs will be offset by other matches more conducive to farming damage.

Edited by Brauer, 16 January 2020 - 05:42 PM.


#64 Leone

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 05:50 PM

View Post_Magno_, on 16 January 2020 - 04:32 PM, said:

4 games in a row 2 mechs on our side go down immediately. We're on our heels, and 4 games in a row it gets down to 4 v 9 and then its surrounded and just go down swinging.

How would "good" players recover from these conditions in game?

The trick is to prevent your team from being surrounded. I know I posted my advice threads for you. Some times you need to be the one to bite the bullet and hold the line to give your team time to respond to a flank. The unfortunate side effect of being more aware of the battlefield than your team is being the quickest to respond to the changing environment, and thus the best option sometimes. A murderball is great for attacking, less so if'n your team's gonna be passive and let the enemy engage at their leisure.

~Leone.

#65 _Magno_

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 06:06 PM

View PostLeone, on 16 January 2020 - 05:50 PM, said:

The trick is to prevent your team from being surrounded. I know I posted my advice threads for you. Some times you need to be the one to bite the bullet and hold the line to give your team time to respond to a flank. The unfortunate side effect of being more aware of the battlefield than your team is being the quickest to respond to the changing environment, and thus the best option sometimes. A murderball is great for attacking, less so if'n your team's gonna be passive and let the enemy engage at their leisure.

~Leone.


Well, that's pretty much what happened in 3 of these 4 matches. I had range builds, positioned on the side of the murderball, kept eyes out for true visibility movement, saw said movement, informed the team, the team does not respond.

In two games, warned that we were going to be flanked by a lance, we need to contract back into a specific zone and form a fire line.

Team keeps marching on, my mech is not fast enough to keep pace, and I either got singled out or cut off and surrounded.

1 game I got too fixated on shooting at a target and didn't watch the minimap to see that the oppossing side re positioned to single me out.

Another game I was in deep zoom and an artey striek was placed on or behind me and couldn not see the smoke and no team members informed me of the smoke.

#66 Kodyn

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 06:38 PM

Once you realize you have a potato team and are being rolled, I feel like it's best to pick out a mech or two that are as damaged as possible and finish them off before you go down. Even on a steamroll loss you can usually manage a kill or 3 and decent enough damage if you're just smart about which mechs to target. Look for open legs, open CTs and side torsi. I know it's not the easiest, since in a roll, usually your team hasn't been focusing fire all that well to begin with, so there might not be a lot of open components, but work with what you have.

If you can't herd the cats, all you can do is worry about your own performance. I know you already said you do focus soft parts and whatnot, but really that's a good choice. A CT kill on a mech with both sides and arms all attached gives quite a few components, and you should be able to manage 300+ damage on most mechs in a bad loss.

About zoom- don't use advanced zoom, it's not worth it and it's more of a disadvantage than anything. When using regular zoom, frequently zoom out to keep aware of your surroundings- don't be that guy who stays zoomed in while attempting to brawl. Get used to zooming fast and taking your shot as soon as you're zoomed in, don't hold too long staring at any one target. Doing training grounds and trying to get through the mechs as quickly as possible, in as few shots, without stopping, always firing while moving is a decent way to practice. Learn where on each map there's bumpy terrain that can jostle your mech and ruin your shots, so eventually it becomes muscle memory to know when you should be shooting and when you should just be moving or twisting.

Twisting. Do it. Lots of it. Can't tell you how many times I've hung on with 30% or less of a mech, all components open but still attached, guns still healthy, still getting kills at the end of a match. Some mechs are obviously better for this than others, and chicken walkers like Stalkers do more of a wiggle than a twist, but in any event, spread the damage. Rolling damage can be the difference between dying fast or requiring 4 different mechs focusing you to wear you down, bit by bit, while you're still dishing out damage.

Sometimes you can't really prevent a truly awful team from getting rolled, unless you're capable of carrying 6+ kills yourself. If they don't listen and you're not at that level, then it's just about doing the best you can. Eventually the best you can will feel better than it does right now, and a loss, while still frustrating, won't be as much a loss in rewards/score as it is right now.

Just one middle-of-the-road player's tips. Take what you will from it.

#67 Y E O N N E

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 07:02 PM

View PostVonBruinwald, on 16 January 2020 - 04:21 PM, said:


Couple more qualifiers for you:
  • Plays on a potatoe
  • Disabled
Some people aren't bad by their own fault. Unless you consider 'prioritising food and rent over a new gaming rig' self inflicted.


To be blunt, the reason why a player is bad doesn't matter; that player is still bad and your chances of winning with them on your team still go down. The only thing the reason for badness might get anybody is understanding and sympathy for being physically unable to do better, but it doesn't make me want to have that person on my team when winning is on the line.

#68 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 07:32 PM

If someone is constantly giving out bad information, using Jarl's List is like a "I know what you do in-game and hence why I don't want to take your seriously" replacer.

The fact is, everyone and I mean everyone would play with someone who has a good attitude and doesn't mind shooting enemies. The annoyance arises when people...

1) Bring bad builds every time
2) Just sits back and does nothing before getting blown to bits
3) Blames others while not even had the courage to face enemies

Finding one of those three attributes in one person is bad enough but there are many, many players who have ALL THREE of those in them and they're stubborn on top of that. Hence why Jarl's List is used to shut them up. Doesn't work though but I guess it feels good sometimes.

People don't care if your dog plays MWO. All that matters is to make sure you're having fun WHILE NOT HINDERING SOMEONE ELSE. If you manage that, anyone from the top teams will not only add you to their FW group but also help you with good advice. The rest is up to you.

#69 OZHomerOZ

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 08:05 PM

IMO Jarls list is a usefull tool, I use it for the following reasons.

1) It saves me time, when your old you don't have a lotta time left to be wasting it reading billionz of pages on the forums.
On posts instructing others, Jarls allows me to skim the pages and check out the participants on Jarls list,

If the Jarls ranking difference is large, I will focus on posts by the highest ranked posters. I may even learn something new and learn it quickly. Thus learning and avoiding a heap of reading and saving time.

If the Jarls ranking difference is small, I will follow the discussion in more detail, these types of discussions can be fascinating. Posted Image

So Jarls saves me time and increases the effort to benefit ratio of the forums.

2) Jarls also helps me determine the quality of players quickly, especially when they make calls that go against my better judgment, with my current knowledge.

For example I'm in a game and a caller makes a call I think is bad.
I think, Mmm that sounds like a bad call.
But Mmm maybe its a good call but I never seen such sorcery before from a Mech Wizard.

Better check the Jarls List! , quick alt tab, opens Jarls List Short cut, Searches Player.

30% Jarls Player - Tell caller not a good idea, Counter if able.
99.99999% Jarls Player - Follow call, open eyes and learn it, Try not too die first in front of said Mech Wizzard. Posted Image, WIN!

Usefull also when your mates say they get 500 damage and a few kills every game.

Note - Jarls List has alot of stats, but for me the most important stat is Win/Loss.
The games about winning.
I tend to follow people who put winning first and stat farmers and forum warriors second.

Jarls List saves me time on this as well. Posted Image

#70 Warning incoming Humble Dexterer

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 08:19 PM

- High W/L and high K/D : The Farmer
- High W/L and average K/D : The Brawler
- High W/L and low K/D : The Pacifist
- Average W/L and high K/D : The Bruiser
- Average W/L and average K/D : The Average Guy
- Average W/L and low K/D : The Potato
- Low W/L and high K/D : The Monster
- Low W/L and average K/D : The Lone Wolf
- Low W/L and low K/D : The Noob

High is ~ 2
Average is ~ 1
Low is ~0.5

Check your own stats to confirm what you are :)

#71 Vxheous

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 08:35 PM

View PostHumble Dexter, on 16 January 2020 - 08:19 PM, said:

- High W/L and high K/D : The Farmer
- High W/L and average K/D : The Brawler
- High W/L and low K/D : The Pacifist
- Average W/L and high K/D : The Bruiser
- Average W/L and average K/D : The Average Guy
- Average W/L and low K/D : The Potato
- Low W/L and high K/D : The Monster
- Low W/L and average K/D : The Lone Wolf
- Low W/L and low K/D : The Noob

High is ~ 2
Average is ~ 1
Low is ~0.5

Check your own stats to confirm what you are Posted Image


High W/L , High K/D and High Average Match score: The Carry

oh, one more:

High W/L, High K/D, High Average Match score, virtually 100% played in Mediums: The ATM Veagle spammer

Edited by Vxheous, 16 January 2020 - 08:40 PM.


#72 Kodyn

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 08:52 PM

Aha! So I am every bit as exceedingly average as I suspected I think...

I think my KDR being lower than my W/L is because when I have tater tots I tend to get aggressive and die earlier than when I have a competent team. I obviously experience a lot of tater tots...and a lack of patience..

#73 Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 09:44 PM

View PostVxheous, on 16 January 2020 - 08:35 PM, said:


High W/L , High K/D and High Average Match score: The Carry

oh, one more:

High W/L, High K/D, High Average Match score, virtually 100% played in Mediums: The ATM Veagle spammer


Sadly, the ATM-Veagle is the perfect answer to the perfect 'lets run around in circles' excuse of a mode that people call quickplay.

I'd still take a 50%Jarls-Veagle user over a 80% Lurmleecher, though. you know.. getting his own locks, having actual contact with the enemy .. there's at least 'hope' in there. ;)

#74 Kodyn

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 09:58 PM

Here's a Jarl's list question- how long after a player has returned before they're no longer consider "retired"? Been back about 2 weeks or so after a several month break.

#75 The Jewce Iz Loose

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 10:10 PM

View PostKodyn, on 16 January 2020 - 09:58 PM, said:

Here's a Jarl's list question- how long after a player has returned before they're no longer consider "retired"? Been back about 2 weeks or so after a several month break.


Jarl's only updates 1 time per month, at the first of the month. Not sure but you will find out Feb 1st or 2nd

#76 RickySpanish

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 10:55 PM

View PostHumble Dexter, on 16 January 2020 - 08:19 PM, said:

- High W/L and high K/D : The Farmer
- High W/L and average K/D : The Carried Potato
- High W/L and low K/D : The Potato Carried in GQ
- Average W/L and high K/D : The Selfish Potato
- Average W/L and average K/D : The Potato
- Average W/L and low K/D : The Moldy Potato
- Low W/L and high K/D : The Potato Whose Location Your Team Gives Out Just To Make It Stop
- Low W/L and average K/D : The Stupid Potato
- Low W/L and low K/D : The Spud Father
- Low W/L, low K/D and the videos to prove it: [Redacted]Potato Special

High is ~ 2
Average is ~ 1
Low is ~0.5

Check your own stats to confirm what you are :)


Fixed that for you.

Edited by GM Patience, 22 January 2020 - 05:04 PM.
Name&Shame


#77 thievingmagpi

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 11:44 PM

hahaha

#78 Kodyn

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Posted 16 January 2020 - 11:49 PM

Ricky, you are just intent on crushing my soul today, aren't you? First destroying my nascar theory, now I'm a potato. -_-

#79 w4ldO

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 12:06 AM

stats dont draw the whole picture in a game where so much randomness can happen to you or your team or the opponent

you might get paired up with 10 exceptional players in your team. your KD goes down, WL goes up
or you could face those 10 players in the opposing team which will lead to both your stats going down
or you might happen to be the best player on the field and drop a 2k dmg match
there is no ELO calculation anywhere. stats used by jarl does not factor in the skill of your teammates or your opponents

as long as this game does not have a proper matchmaker, this discussion is a bland topic

#80 Scout Derek

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Posted 17 January 2020 - 01:03 AM

View PostVxheous, on 16 January 2020 - 08:35 PM, said:


virtually 100% played in Mediums: The ATM Veagle spammer


Meanwhile me:

R U S H B

C H E E K I B R E E K I W O L V E R I N E





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