17 replies to this topic

[AlphaWolf294]

I was wondering if someone would be infringing some copyright or something of the sort if they used the names of current battle mechs (ie: used the name Atlas for a mech in a game or book.)

I looked all over the forum and Google but couldn't find an adequate answer on this.

Also, would the mechs appearances have to be (75%) different in games/books?

[VonBruinwald]

AlphaWolf294, on 12 February 2020 - 01:10 PM, said:

Also, would the mechs appearances have to be (75%) different in games/books?

This is the main issue. As long as your giant robot is sufficiently different you can call it whatever you like. If you describe it as 10 meters tall humanoid machine with a skull face, a rocket launcher on one hip and a giant shotgun on the other you might have issues...

[Horseman]

AlphaWolf294, on 12 February 2020 - 01:10 PM, said:

I was wondering if someone would be infringing some copyright or something of the sort if they used the names of current battle mechs (ie: used the name Atlas for a mech in a game or book.)
Also, would the mechs appearances have to be (75%) different in games/books?

Yes and no.
Most chassis in the games are named using fairly generic words. Some distnct ones might be trademarked or at least claimable (many of the Clan mech names and some of their Inner Sphere designations).

The visual likeness of the mechs, however, most definitely is copyrightable - which, BTW, is automatic in any country that's a Berne Convention signatory (basically most of the world).

There's no hard line between "infringing" and "non-infringing", it's usually based on likelihood of consumer confusion. You might want to look up the court papers from FASA v Playmates, BTW, where that sort of thing did get brought up with relation to Playmates' bootleg Mad Cat and a few other items.

If you're creating original fiction, just design your own mechs and names.
If you're creating Battletech fanfiction, just freaking admit it and never - ever - try to monetize it if you know what's good for you.

Edited by Horseman, 13 February 2020 - 12:05 AM.

[Khobai]

you cant copyright calling a mech an atlas. it doesnt meet the prequisites for being a creative work.

now if you copied every single mech name from battletech, thats probably a different story, because thats part of a larger creative body of work.

[Bud Crue]

Anyone who creates a work of art has a copyright at the moment of creation. You can register a copyright with various nations copyright offices. That registration allows you to sue (at least in the US) for copyright infringement a the federal level.

So, looking at BT/MW, Alex, the artist who created most of MWO's mechs designs, would have a copyright on the designs he came up with. He is however, very likely, required by his terms of employment with PGI, to assign all his rights to those designs to PGI. PGI in turm, may or may not have obligations via their license with MS to assign any copyrights they have to the designs they come up with to MS.

[evilauthor]

Horseman, on 12 February 2020 - 02:58 PM, said:

There's no hard line between "infringing" and "non-infringing", it's usually based on likelihood of consumer confusion. You might want to look up the court papers from FASA v Playmates, BTW, where that sort of thing did get brought up with relation to Playmates' bootleg Mad Cat and a few other items.

FYI, here's Playmates' bootleg Mad Cat which according to an actual RL court case is totally NOT a Mad Cat:


On the plus side, I believe the precedent of this court case was used to FINALLY get Harmony Gold off Battletech's back, although the actual results of that one got hidden behind some Non-Disclosure Agreement.

[Horseman]

To my knowledge it's the opposite - that case was what caused Harmony Gold to go after FASA.

[evilauthor]

Horseman, on 07 March 2020 - 09:48 AM, said:

To my knowledge it's the opposite - that case was what caused Harmony Gold to go after FASA.

Only because FASA was out of money for legal fees.

Fast forward 20 years, and this case was used to help prove that Harmony Gold's claims against PGI as bogus... at least until PGI's lawyers discovered that HG didn't actually have the rights to the mech images they were trying to sue over.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

FASA's lawsuit against Playmates at that time was already a disaster ... Fasa lost, but Playmates went broke afterwards, and Playmates associated with HG, HG now became aware of FASA

Edited by MW Waldorf Statler, 09 March 2020 - 09:32 PM.

[Swamp Ass MkII]

Yes and no... If a mech looks like any mech in the mechverse regardless of who created it, can impose a copry right infringement. If any mech both looks like and is named after a mech, then most deffinitly...

Example the fight between robotech, and paladium... (I think its still on, or resolved) There is a Mech named Radar in Battletech, and the mech that IS has with some for of wide attenea, (don't know name) looks similar to it.

This is one stupid *** argument if you ask me...

Every is after everyone for copyright infringements, and every sues everyone for copry right infringements, regardless of who actually owns the copy right, because everyone is looking to make a fast buck...

[MW Waldorf Statler]

by the Names ..Atlas for Example is free to use ,while its a Name from the old Ancient Greek Mythology ,and Mankind cultural Ownment,you can use Mammouth , or Ghettysburg ,thats free, you use Thor ,its no Problem , you use Thor and give it in a Avengers Mech Team its more difficult.

[Karl Streiger]

The term 'Mech' is already protected by Topps.
So to start you should use Mecha or Mek.

A Atlas Mecha is not protected -> MassEffect, Titanfall

[Fae Puka]

Many of the original designs were created by independent artists who retained their copyright.

This hit Ral Partha a number of years ago when they were using casts that mimicked the original drawn designs. An agreement was arranged and a substantial number of moulds were decommissioned and the MK II mechs were born.

Names can be relatively generic, but the devil is in the detail when describing the actual mecha. Wherever possible, it is always best to try and avoid likenesses with the copyright lawyers actively chasing the use of identifiable models/names etc., where they are being used for profit. Certainly legal firms will even pursue charitable organisations or non-profit ones, "We don't really want to do this . . . ", but they do and they will take individuals to court and can claim substantial damages even on OGL type claims where copyright or acknowledgements have not been agreed by the originating creator.

"Fair use", by the way, would not apply, if you were trying to make a profit and/or were not using the descriptors or names as part of a review etc.

If you read PGI's T&Cs, you will find a section that requires anyone using reference of any product under license to seek prior agreement to do so.

In short, create your own names, use mythological ones, in fact anything other than risk landing yourself with costs at sometime in the future.

[Fae Puka]

Karl Streiger, on 26 November 2020 - 01:47 AM, said:

The term 'Mech' is already protected by Topps.
So to start you should use Mecha or Mek.

A Atlas Mecha is not protected -> MassEffect, Titanfall

These names/terms have already been used in systems such as Gundam and Robotech etc., where a mechanical fighting machine MFM, say, probably hasn't. Drop any terminology into Google and see what pops up is a good rule of thumb to keep you safer (though I certainly would not guarantee - being safe)

[PocketYoda]

Harmony Gold went after Fasa because they were using their licenced mechs without their or the creators licence (Fasa licence ran out and they still continued using them..)

[Drunken Firebat]

A good overview of the legal action here:

https://www.pcgamesn...ny-gold-lawsuit

The lawsuits would eventually blow up in Harmony Gold's face, though.

https://www.sarna.ne...y-gold-lawsuit/

Frankly, I always found it vastly amusing how much contempt HG engenders. Battletech fans, of course, hate them; but Robotech/Macross fans loathe them as well for sitting on the licenses and not actually doing anything with them. You haven't lived till you've seen a reenactment of the infamous Predator 'hand clasp' meme, done by a BT player and a guy in a Macross T-shirt. Good times.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Samial, on 17 December 2020 - 10:50 PM, said:

Harmony Gold went after Fasa because they were using their licenced mechs without their or the creators licence (Fasa licence ran out and they still continued using them..)

the Unseen sw as a Long Story of War ,Company Narcissmus and Licence Disasters (good thats No Copyright Rules existed as the Mankind find the Way to make fire ) ,while licensing in japan very other as in USA ,and Artists in Japan not seeing all the Problems thats came later ...

https://www.sarna.ne...e-unseen-mechs/

https://bg.battletec...9g13lv6r5uhun1i

[InvictusLee]

Not unless you are harmony gold or big west.