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Decay Of The Game


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#1 Hellfire666

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 08:25 AM

Decided to actually login for a change and boy has this game degenerated into a pile of crap.

Waited 20 minutes to get a QP match and it was full on nascar stupidity.

Let's try Faction Play. only 6 people in queue after another 20 minutes.

Fine, maybe Solaris?

1 match going and it was someone running two accounts at once farming. One mech moving and the other just standing at then entry spot.

It's a shame, this game used to be a load of fun to play. People actually tried to use tactics other than mindless running in circles. Now it's waiting forever for a match of mindless nascaring.

#2 martian

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 08:51 AM

View PostHellfire666, on 17 February 2020 - 08:25 AM, said:

Decided to actually login for a change and boy has this game degenerated into a pile of crap.

It has not degenerated into a pile of crap. It is the same zero-depth FPS shooter it always has been - right from the beginning.

View PostHellfire666, on 17 February 2020 - 08:25 AM, said:

Waited 20 minutes to get a QP match and it was full on nascar stupidity.

Although waiting 20 minutes is a bit unusual, that ******** nascar stupidity has always been the defining trait of MWO - right from the beginning. Don't you remember that nascaring around the central caldera on the original Caustic? And on the original Forest Colony? And actually on all available maps?

View PostHellfire666, on 17 February 2020 - 08:25 AM, said:

Let's try Faction Play. only 6 people in queue after another 20 minutes.

I guess that all random players have realized that ignoring FP is better than being farmed a dozen times in a row. And it seems that not even usual group players are enjoying their *******-******* anymore.

View PostHellfire666, on 17 February 2020 - 08:25 AM, said:

Fine, maybe Solaris?

1 match going and it was someone running two accounts at once farming. One mech moving and the other just standing at then entry spot.

Solaris is joke, just a stillborn.

View PostHellfire666, on 17 February 2020 - 08:25 AM, said:

It's a shame, this game used to be a load of fun to play. People actually tried to use tactics other than mindless running in circles. Now it's waiting forever for a match of mindless nascaring.

Boy, you have a rose-tinted glasses on your nose.

The gameplay is exactly the same as it was in 2013. The only thing that has changed are more modern 'Mechs. The nascaring that I saw on Canyon two minutes ago is exactly the same as I remember from 2013. Right hand run forward and then turn towards the central rock and central plateau. People are just not running their Catapults, Cataphracts and LRM Stalkers anymore, they have bought Mad Cat Mk. IIs, Blood Asps and Orion IICs. They do not brawl in Shadow Hawks and Griffins, they have bought Vapor Eagles and Huntsmans.

That's the only difference.

#3 Hellfire666

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 09:09 AM

That may be the case, either way. The game is now complete ****. It was never perfect, but it's not even fun to play anymore.

#4 -Winter

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 09:11 AM

View PostHellfire666, on 17 February 2020 - 08:25 AM, said:

Decided to actually login for a change and boy has this game degenerated into a pile of crap.

Waited 20 minutes to get a QP match and it was full on nascar stupidity.

Let's try Faction Play. only 6 people in queue after another 20 minutes.

Fine, maybe Solaris?

1 match going and it was someone running two accounts at once farming. One mech moving and the other just standing at then entry spot.

It's a shame, this game used to be a load of fun to play. People actually tried to use tactics other than mindless running in circles. Now it's waiting forever for a match of mindless nascaring.


QP loads usually sub 5min. Unless you are trying to play only in APAC in which yeah bad experience but if you have NA and EMEA servers active QP is usually really fast. Unless you try Group Queue.

FP usually isn't too bad, though better to join with a group to help queue times. Usually always at least 3-4 active FP games going so you probably missed those windows.

Yeah nascar "rotato" is annoying, but it isn't too bad unless you play away from the team when down on kills. The game skill gap just increased with the smaller player base. You have Potatoes that made it up to T1 and the match maker is ****.

#5 martian

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 09:24 AM

View PostHellfire666, on 17 February 2020 - 09:09 AM, said:

That may be the case, either way. The game is now complete ****. It was never perfect, but it's not even fun to play anymore.

About 90-95% of MWO players have realized that Russ Bullock's "in 60-90 days" is not going to happen.

Yeah, those players have needed 6-7 years to come to this conclusion, but they finally threw MWO over the board and left for other games.


Why do you think that this forum is dead and and that you can see still the same players game after game?


Why do you think that PGI released their Community Manager and all Forum Moderators?

It is because there is no community to manage anymore and you need no moderators if you have about two dozens of semi-active posters left.

#6 Johny Rocket

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 09:30 AM

Nascar is map design but also what the community wants, watch the map votes and it's always maps that favor this like HPG and Canyon that win.

#7 Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 10:23 AM

View PostJohny Rocket, on 17 February 2020 - 09:30 AM, said:

Nascar is map design but also what the community wants, watch the map votes and it's always maps that favor this like HPG and Canyon that win.



Nascar has -nothing- to do with the mapvote, though; I've seen people nascar around A ROCK (more like a pebble) on polar.
nascar just is. love it, hate it, whatever. just know that it's gonna happen.

people vote for hpg or canyon because it's fun, brings both teams together fast and encourages the ensuing chaos that at least makes the following ring-around the rosie bearable.
people don't vote for polar because nobody (except the lurmers ofc) likes to hide and stare at a snowy ridge for 10minutes, watching two scared and anemic teams avoid each other.

#8 Prototelis

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 11:34 AM

View PostJohny Rocket, on 17 February 2020 - 09:30 AM, said:

Nascar is map design


Dual rotations have little to do with map design and everything to do with this community and the way the majority of people left choose to play.

#9 Horseman

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 12:36 PM

View PostHellfire666, on 17 February 2020 - 08:25 AM, said:

Fine, maybe Solaris?
Solaris is mostly active in the first week of a season and/or when the season kickoff event starts. Beyond that you'll see only a handful of regular players.

#10 JediPanther

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 01:57 PM

View Postmartian, on 17 February 2020 - 08:51 AM, said:

It has not degenerated into a pile of crap. It is the same zero-depth FPS shooter it always has been - right from the beginning.


Although waiting 20 minutes is a bit unusual, that ******** nascar stupidity has always been the defining trait of MWO - right from the beginning. Don't you remember that nascaring around the central caldera on the original Caustic? And on the original Forest Colony? And actually on all available maps?


I guess that all random players have realized that ignoring FP is better than being farmed a dozen times in a row. And it seems that not even usual group players are enjoying their *******-******* anymore.


Solaris is joke, just a stillborn.


Boy, you have a rose-tinted glasses on your nose.

The gameplay is exactly the same as it was in 2013. The only thing that has changed are more modern 'Mechs. The nascaring that I saw on Canyon two minutes ago is exactly the same as I remember from 2013. Right hand run forward and then turn towards the central rock and central plateau. People are just not running their Catapults, Cataphracts and LRM Stalkers anymore, they have bought Mad Cat Mk. IIs, Blood Asps and Orion IICs. They do not brawl in Shadow Hawks and Griffins, they have bought Vapor Eagles and Huntsmans.

That's the only difference.


I haven't. I still have yet to get the last catapult cat-c2. I can skill it in five minutes with all the xps saved over the years of something worth spending it on. Lrm-ing in qp has become a chore more so than the glory days of 2013-14. All the extra ecm/stealth/tri and quad ams mech around even a fully skilled and kited out cat has trouble getting its own locks. Max sensors,bap,tag,uavs,artemis etc.

Honestly I don't know what to do with the cat c2. I've got the a1,c1,c4 for lrms all with very nerly identical skill trees for lrming. K2 is my gun cat.Jester for laser boating. A1 for the boom cat so the C2 is pretty much meh to me. I've got the cat-bb as well for the srm/mrm boat.

Clan mechs just suck so much to my ways of playing the game. I already know I'm going to waste atleast 55 points minimal into fire power and 20-ish for cool run leaving only around 30 or so for anything. The skill maze has really ruined the game in the whole experiment-with-builds-on-mech because without the skills you can't get to a potential build's maximum performance. At least I have literal years of xp on my cats so I can experiment and still have fun with them.

Why would I get a new-er or clan mech just to start over when I got tons of xps waiting on is mechs that let me (some what) experiment with similar builds?

#11 LordNothing

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 04:59 PM

View PostPrototelis, on 17 February 2020 - 11:34 AM, said:

Dual rotations have little to do with map design and everything to do with this community and the way the majority of people left choose to play.


most humans are right handed. so in lieu of an actual plan the right hand dominance kicks in and every just starts to rotate. and since someone calling out a plan is actually quite rare its nascar all day every day. at least that's my theory.

that said you can design maps that account for this natural dominance. for example make the right hand side a complete no mans land while giving the center route a strategic overlook. of course then you got to do the same thing on the other side. which leads to a map with well defined paths around a big central feature. thus you get hpg manifold, canyon network, etc. then you try a jumble with multiple cris crossing pathways, and thats how we ended up with rubellite. if you look at the map release order, its clear that pgi actively tried to adjust map design to reduce nascar, with little to no effect in most cases. i for one think they should have gone with a natural map configuration. though you might be able to argue that was the point of polar, they made the center as unattractive a position as possible, and it had the same effect as the citadel in river city or the center of hpg. im not saying a map design solution is impossible, only that it was impossible for pgi. i think the community could have cracked it if they were allowed to make and submit maps.

#12 RickySpanish

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 05:10 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 17 February 2020 - 04:59 PM, said:


most humans are right handed. so in lieu of an actual plan the right hand dominance kicks in and every just starts to rotate. and since someone calling out a plan is actually quite rare its nascar all day every day. at least that's my theory.

that said you can design maps that account for this natural dominance. for example make the right hand side a complete no mans land while giving the center route a strategic overlook. of course then you got to do the same thing on the other side. which leads to a map with well defined paths around a big central feature. thus you get hpg manifold, canyon network, etc. then you try a jumble with multiple cris crossing pathways, and thats how we ended up with rubellite. if you look at the map release order, its clear that pgi actively tried to adjust map design to reduce nascar, with little to no effect in most cases. i for one think they should have gone with a natural map configuration. though you might be able to argue that was the point of polar, they made the center as unattractive a position as possible, and it had the same effect as the citadel in river city or the center of hpg. im not saying a map design solution is impossible, only that it was impossible for pgi. i think the community could have cracked it if they were allowed to make and submit maps.


They couldn't have, because without altering the game rules nothing would change. The simple fact is that the number one most useful way to hurt the enemy team is to kill a player, *not* to complete objectives. If 'Mechs respawned and some other resource orobjective were more important, suddenly taking and *holding* resources and objectives would also become important, and you can't very well Nascar when one side would rather remain where they are. Instead in QP the players themselves become the resources and objectives, and thus they guide the movement of one another, constantly chasing the least well defended or slowest target.

Edited by RickySpanish, 17 February 2020 - 05:12 PM.


#13 Johny Rocket

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 05:45 PM

The sky is blue





next comment some random guy says no its not its lime green.

#14 Prototelis

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 06:04 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 17 February 2020 - 04:59 PM, said:


that said you can design maps that account


Account for why it happens on maps with no central object or why it doesn't typically happen in FP on the exact same maps.

Edited by Prototelis, 17 February 2020 - 06:05 PM.


#15 LordNothing

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 06:15 PM

View PostRickySpanish, on 17 February 2020 - 05:10 PM, said:

They couldn't have, because without altering the game rules nothing would change. The simple fact is that the number one most useful way to hurt the enemy team is to kill a player, *not* to complete objectives. If 'Mechs respawned and some other resource orobjective were more important, suddenly taking and *holding* resources and objectives would also become important, and you can't very well Nascar when one side would rather remain where they are. Instead in QP the players themselves become the resources and objectives, and thus they guide the movement of one another, constantly chasing the least well defended or slowest target.


a huge problem with the one shot at glory paradigm. i also dont think a change in game rules is realistic at this point. hell no change what so ever is realistic, but dont worry about that and just keep playing.

View PostPrototelis, on 17 February 2020 - 06:04 PM, said:


Account for why it happens on maps with no central object or why it doesn't typically happen in FP on the exact same maps.


thats respawn's doing. everything changes when you not only have to worry about your current mech but also your next and subsequent mechs.nascar is undesired because you might lose your left side drop zone, and if you do it you run into their drop zone and then they have to counter or lose some players. i for one would prefer fp to be the only mode, but i guess people like it "easy".

View PostJohny Rocket, on 17 February 2020 - 05:45 PM, said:

The sky is blue

next comment some random guy says no its not its lime green.


the sky is clearly brown. get your eyes checked.

Edited by LordNothing, 17 February 2020 - 06:18 PM.


#16 Johny Rocket

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 06:47 PM

Map design is only part of it. The other thing you have to consider is the disparity in mech speed, faster mechs try flanking to catch slower mechs and there you go everyone is rotating.

Then it really does come down to people vote for maps with a central point to run circles around. Which is why I often joke that the majority of players would be happy with a 1 grid square map with an Atlas sized stripper pole in the middle.

Edited by Johny Rocket, 17 February 2020 - 06:49 PM.


#17 Prototelis

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 06:49 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 17 February 2020 - 06:15 PM, said:



thats respawn's doing.


Has nothing to do with it.

Even on small maps reinforcing on a dual rotation takes too much time or cannot be done in sufficient numbers and anyone who has played more than one match of FP knows reinforcing is almost always a waste of a mech.

Dropzone location doesn't matter either lol. If your dz is going to get farmed it's because you badly lost the wave; dual rotations have no influence there.

Edited by Prototelis, 17 February 2020 - 06:51 PM.


#18 LordNothing

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 08:37 PM

View PostPrototelis, on 17 February 2020 - 06:49 PM, said:


Has nothing to do with it.

Even on small maps reinforcing on a dual rotation takes too much time or cannot be done in sufficient numbers and anyone who has played more than one match of FP knows reinforcing is almost always a waste of a mech.

Dropzone location doesn't matter either lol. If your dz is going to get farmed it's because you badly lost the wave; dual rotations have no influence there.


has more to do with giving up strategic ground between waves. if you dont create a big enough buffer zone between your respawns and the enemy you simply wont have time to set up for the next wave and you end up fighting in a less desirable location (in your base is just an example, if nascar is overextending this is its inverse).of course that becomes irrelevant if you do get slaughtered mercilessly. but it is an element of map control.

its certainly not relevant in quick play because when you die you simply quit and start a new game, and then use the same "strategy" because it might just work this time. respawn changes the dynamics completely its also why living legends plays so differently from mwo.

Edited by LordNothing, 17 February 2020 - 08:38 PM.


#19 Prototelis

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 08:38 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 17 February 2020 - 08:37 PM, said:


has more to do with giving up strategic ground between waves.


Has. Nothing. To. Do. With. It.

It's already been pointed out that reinforcing makes no difference.

#20 LordNothing

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Posted 17 February 2020 - 08:45 PM

View PostPrototelis, on 17 February 2020 - 08:38 PM, said:

Has. Nothing. To. Do. With. It.

It's already been pointed out that reinforcing makes no difference.


i didnt say anything about reinforcing. setting up for the next wave is completely different.





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