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Zero To 0-6 In 15Sec


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#1 _Magno_

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 02:16 PM

How do you folks interpret and handle those matches where there is decent comms up front, there is a plan in motion, the company is marching along together, no DCs, no weirdos running off on their own who have no business being solo, no AFKs, etc..

Then you hear the first, "Spotted the Enemy". You check the mini map to confirm the vector, and get oriented, some fellow players begin communicating in some early info, "PPC sniper off in E6, looks like 2 heavies coming down into the valley....'

Feels like a good 20 seconds pass and you look up at the score and its 0-3 when you fire your first shot from a 4 mech fireline. You Look up again, and its 0-8 and then you're dead and you got off a maybe few shots.

Is this simple poor match making on PGI's part?

#2 Prototelis

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 02:25 PM

Identify whether or not the plan is bad. It is usually bad, or is literally PUSHA WITHOUT A CLEAR ADVANTAGE LOL

#3 Knight Captain Morgan

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 02:31 PM

View Post_Magno_, on 02 March 2020 - 02:16 PM, said:



Is this simple poor match making on PGI's part?

What matchmaker? The "valves" or whatever they're being called now have been permanently chained open in the name of wait times. It would be fine to put all tiers together if there was a system that ranked players according to average match score and then evenly distributed both the best and worst between both teams evenly. But PGI has no such system.

#4 Hazeclaw

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 02:32 PM

Match making is a part of it, but to achieve this grand scale failure usually requires team effort. There are many ways this can happen but it's usually either:

1. The enemy team nascared into your left side very grouped up, your team saw them and turned right to nascar but because the enemy was already on your left in big numbers your teammates simply gave their backs to the enemy and they were able to erase a lot of you quickly

2. This is more rare but it does happen. Your team nascared into the enemy very stretched out, and the enemy by some miracle decided not to nascar and had a wide line so your teammates were rolling one by one into an insta erase killbox

If you lost 3 mechs before you fired your first shot, either you or your teammates were terribly out of position.

QP lyfe

#5 Prototelis

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 02:41 PM

View PostKnight Captain Morgan, on 02 March 2020 - 02:31 PM, said:

What matchmaker? The "valves" or whatever they're being called now have been permanently chained open in the name of wait times.


This isn't true. There is a 2 tier differential. Been tested many times by members of the community.

The simple fact is that a good portion of the population has floated up to tier 3+ by attrition, which makes most games "tier 1 games."

The matchmaker only makes two distinctions in regard to a player, weight class and PSR, and PSR has always been broken.

#6 _Magno_

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 05:22 PM

View PostHazeclaw, on 02 March 2020 - 02:32 PM, said:

If you lost 3 mechs before you fired your first shot, either you or your teammates were terribly out of position. QP lyfe


I was still moving up from our DZ. OUr spread was pretty tight.

#7 Sjorpha

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 05:26 PM

There are tons of useless calls and "communication" that actually do more harm than good, here are some examples:

"focus fire" - without saying which target or calling a target that isn't actually in a position to be focused.

"push!" - without clearly communicating timing or in what direction, or calling for a push when it's a bad idea (like if you have a good position already or most of your team is ranged builds etc)

"behind us" - where "behind" is different for different people.

"they're all there" - where it's not actually true that most enemies are "there" or when "there isn't specified"

"don't Nascar" - when said without offering an alternative plan.

And then of course there is all the trivially useless uninformative clutter: "I'm being shot", "use cover", "engaging target" etc and the useless complaints after the fact "you guys didn't...", "you all should have..."

Record some games and see how often you thought you were communicating, but in reality you actually didn't say anything useful or informative. I did it much more than I realised, probably still do.



#8 FRAGTAST1C

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 07:03 PM

There's a difference between "Knowing what to do" and "Being able to do it".

There's really no point in being a tactical genius when you can't shoot enemies with good accuracy, or worse, don't want to shoot and instead wait for the team to make it happen for you.

Frankly, there are only a handful of people that really make use of comms to great effect and they're mostly tired of herding cats in QP. If the rest of the people left the comms inactive and simply focused on shooting enemies, the matches would be much closer. There's no point in calling out EVERY SINGLE TARGET that you see. How many times have you warned your team about a lone enemy LRM-boat or a squirrel to watch helplessly as 6 teammates charge at them leaving the rest of you exposed to 10 enemies? Just focus on one until it's dead or retreats and then go for the next big threat.

#9 justcallme A S H

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Posted 02 March 2020 - 11:06 PM

View PostKnight Captain Morgan, on 02 March 2020 - 02:31 PM, said:

What matchmaker? The "valves" or whatever they're being called now have been permanently chained open in the name of wait times. It would be fine to put all tiers together if there was a system that ranked players according to average match score and then evenly distributed both the best and worst between both teams evenly. But PGI has no such system.


The MM works as per how Paul outlined in the pinned post in this very section HERE

To make it really simple and clear for you:

Quote

1) Stop allowing Tier 1 players to play against Tier 4 and 5 players completely. Hard line.. no ifs ands or buts no matter how low the player count is in off peak times. To do this, the value for Tier separation has been set to 2. The biggest skill gap allowed now is Tier 1 to Tier 3. Tier 2 to Tier 4. Tier 3 to Tier 5.


It is not "chained open" and Tiers are not together at all.

#10 _Magno_

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Posted 03 March 2020 - 03:43 AM

When I discussed matchmaking, I was thinking more of Mechs and not players.

So the MM uses tonnage rather than Battle Value of the mech. So its entirely possible that a company can roll in with some really ****** builds vs optimized builds, but the tonnage is comparable.

#11 Davegt27

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Posted 03 March 2020 - 03:56 AM

you need to check your brain at the door to play this game

#12 Marquis De Lafayette

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Posted 03 March 2020 - 09:14 AM

There are many, many ways your described disaster befalls teams.....it’s always an earned massacre though, as mistakes by the team were made. Yes, sometimes the MM just might line more talent up against you (it works both ways though), but this generally isn’t the reason you got massacred early.

We have all seen tons of dumb communications that hose ones team early. The possibilities are too many to list....but as eluded to above the commonality is that members of your team are going to end up out of position and at a disadvantage in the initial fight. People will call out an erppc sniper early and 1/2 the team chases and leaving the other half to get 11 v 6’ed. 1-6 2 minutes in. Your bad light pilots say they are heading to the center to drop a UAV and for whatever reason they then try to trade 2 v 7. 0-2 60 secs in. Plus, a hundred other dumb things we have seen done again and again. Your teammates might be communicating, but they are doing dumb things if you end up down like this super early.




#13 Acid_Rain

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Posted 03 March 2020 - 10:34 AM

There are several factors that contribute to this. Mostly, it's the fault of the matchmaker. While it's true that the matchmaker will only go within 3 tiers for a match population, it is most definitely not putting the same number of tier x on each side. Nor does it take into account anything with regard to average match score of players when putting together teams. Finally, it doesn't take into account chassis/build effectiveness. As such, you will often end up with completely lopsided teams and games. I've seen way too many games go 0/5 or 5/0 within the first minute. Chalk it up to whatever you want, but it doesn't make for a fun game either way.

I've seen games with 3 MJ12 guys on one side, and i've also seen games with 5 cadets on one side and none on the other. You can guess at how those games went.

#14 Acid_Rain

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Posted 09 March 2020 - 05:38 PM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 02 March 2020 - 11:06 PM, said:


The MM works as per how Paul outlined in the pinned post in this very section HERE

To make it really simple and clear for you:



It is not "chained open" and Tiers are not together at all.


I read through that thread and the Dev never addressed any of the concerns raised after his post.

The big one is that Tier means nothing. Avg match score within tier and KDR within tier is more important. Even if you have 2 top 5% players and one has a 5 KDR and the other is 2 KDR putting one on each side and all other things being equal will not make for a good match.

So I guess all the issues people are raising in this thread, is really the same issues raised in that thread and none of it seems to have ever been addressed. I've personally been in several games with 2-3 MJ12 guys on one side. Even amongst the MJ12 guys (I'm only using them because I looked them up after being subjected to these matches) that are all 99%+ there is a vast difference in avg match score and KDR amongst them.

Edited by Acid_Rain, 09 March 2020 - 05:39 PM.


#15 HammerMaster

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 08:00 AM

Dude. It's such a dice roll what you're gonna drop with.
People have in mind what they're gonna do no matter how hard you "com".

View PostAcid_Rain, on 09 March 2020 - 05:38 PM, said:


I I've personally been in several games with 2-3 MJ12 guys on one side. Even amongst the MJ12 guys (I'm only using them because I looked them up after being subjected to these matches) that are all 99%+ there is a vast difference in avg match score and KDR amongst them.


That sounds like a "sync drop" in single queue which is an exploit.

#16 Brauer

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 08:16 AM

View PostHammerMaster, on 10 March 2020 - 08:00 AM, said:

That sounds like a "sync drop" in single queue which is an exploit.


1) sync dropping is not an exploit and on average does not confer an advantage as you are just as likely to be on opposite sides as the same side.
2) with a population this low it's not that uncommon to encounter a fellow member of your unit, or multiple people you know (in the same unit or not) in a completely random drop.

#17 Hazeclaw

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 08:41 AM

View Post_Magno_, on 02 March 2020 - 05:22 PM, said:


I was still moving up from our DZ. OUr spread was pretty tight.


if your spread was pretty tight you should have seen what happened

#18 HammerMaster

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 01:55 PM

View PostBrauer, on 10 March 2020 - 08:16 AM, said:

1) sync dropping is not an exploit and on average does not confer an advantage as you are just as likely to be on opposite sides as the same side.
2) with a population this low it's not that uncommon to encounter a fellow member of your unit, or multiple people you know (in the same unit or not) in a completely random drop.


Whatever.
Exploit is exploit. Random is random. I know what units and players/streamers consistently ABUSE the quick play in this manner.
Stop spreading the lie that it is not an exploit and is allowed.
It is not.
They just have no way to enforce it.

Edited by HammerMaster, 10 March 2020 - 02:18 PM.


#19 VonBruinwald

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 02:31 PM

View PostBrauer, on 10 March 2020 - 08:16 AM, said:

1) sync dropping is not an exploit and on average does not confer an advantage as you are just as likely to be on opposite sides as the same side.


Even if it only confers an advantage in 1% cases it's still an unfair advantage. We can argue the impact of sync-dropping but it's still an exploit no matter how much you dress it down.

View PostBrauer, on 10 March 2020 - 08:16 AM, said:

2) with a population this low it's not that uncommon to encounter a fellow member of your unit, or multiple people you know (in the same unit or not) in a completely random drop.


This is the fine line, some players accidentally sync, we see this all the time. The problem is there's no real way to discern between those doing it deliberately or accidentally.


There's also the issue of intent, some players sync with intent to drop with streamers, others do it intending to play against their buddy, others with their buddy. The last one is the root of the problem as they're effectively playing group vs. pugs.

#20 Brauer

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Posted 10 March 2020 - 02:41 PM

View PostHammerMaster, on 10 March 2020 - 01:55 PM, said:


Whatever.
Exploit is exploit. Random is random. I know what units and players/streamers consistently ABUSE the quick play in this manner.
Stop spreading the lie that it is not an exploit and is allowed.
It is not.
They just have no way to enforce it.


Streamers frequently sync drop, if it was not allowed surely pgi would have done something at some point. It's not an exploit, it's not against ToS, it's not abuse.





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