201 replies to this topic

[VonBruinwald]

Prototelis, on 05 March 2020 - 10:50 AM, said:

Again, sharing armor is a dumb term which most people equate to "eating **** for no reason."

If I'm harassing the **** out of people with a 20 tonner I am health pooling, the goal is not to eat **** because I have like no armor.

You keep doing this, redefining terms (CB2 Nascar thread (it takes two team to Nascar/"Success" doesn't require a failure condition).

"Health pooling" as you define it is sharing armour. Sharing armour doesn't literally mean standing there taking hits, it means presenting yourself as a target so the enemies fire-power is divided and in the event that one of your team mates is shot up and has less armour than you, you present yourself as a primary target to draw fire and keep your buddy in the match.

Brauer, on 05 March 2020 - 08:40 AM, said:

2erll doesn't kill anything fast. I know there can be exceptions, in say comp, but in QP unless it's an absolute stomp 400-500 is pretty much just carrying your weight, not driving a win.

Given the choice I'd rather take a teammate who scores 200dmg with dual H.Gauss over one scoring 500 with lurms, mostly.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 05 March 2020 - 11:29 AM.

[thievingmagpi]

Vellron2005, on 05 March 2020 - 04:05 AM, said:

Some tryhards will always tell you to share armor, because they don't like it when enemies shoot at them instead of you. This is normal, and sadly, there's nothing you can do about that, except flatly ignore it.

Lurmers get this alot. We understand.

But if you do your thing, and you're good at it, and you're not just scratching at the enemy but actually do solid damage and control the enemy's movements with your fire.. you're doing it right.. so keep doing what you do.

Play the game your way.

Also, keep in mind that in a game where you can literally go from 100% not a scratch on you to dead in 3 seconds, armor sharing is just a myth that tryhards want you to believe so you can be their cannon fodder.

Next on "A Bad's thoughts on how to be Bad"

[Prototelis]

VonBruinwald, on 05 March 2020 - 11:28 AM, said:

You keep doing this, redefining terms (CB2 Nascar thread (it takes two team to Nascar/"Success" doesn't require a failure condition).

I am not redefining terms. Dude literally equates "armor sharing" to "poking a ramp with assaults in a cicada," which is eating **** for no reason.

Quote

"Health pooling" as you define it is sharing armour. Sharing armour doesn't literally mean standing there taking hits,

In this community it does. Most often used by ***** yelling pusha pusha pusha

Health pooling is not the same conceptually as armor sharing, because I am not literally trying to share my armor with you. Thats stupid. That is eating **** for no reason, hence why the term is bad.

Edited by Prototelis, 05 March 2020 - 12:14 PM.

[K O Z A K]

it takes 2 players to share armor, armor sharing works every time

[VonBruinwald]

Prototelis, on 05 March 2020 - 12:13 PM, said:

Health pooling is not the same conceptually as armor sharing, because I am not literally trying to share my armor with you.

And you literally aren't pooling your Health with anyone...

[Brauer]

Acid_Rain, on 05 March 2020 - 11:25 AM, said:

I'm not saying anything regarding the effectiveness or lack thereof of erlls.

With respect to damage, 400-500, is more than just carrying your weight. I'd say most folks in games i've played seem to be getting 200-300, and 1 or 2 people per match score 600+, the rest somewhere in the middle. Being in the right spot, capturing the attention of the enemy, getting fast kills, etc. is what will win the game over pure high damage numbers. I've had some base rushes end with a win and 120 being the most damage done by anyone.

400-500 may be more than a lot of players average in a match, but you are assuming that most people carry their weight. I've had numerous matches lately where one to two players notch 700+ damage and multiple kills while the other 10 on their team fail to break 300. From my perspective that means that basically two players showed up to play, and the other 10 at best had little to no influence on the match, and at worst were a detriment to their team. Just because the average level of competence is low does not mean that the bar for carrying your own weight is lowered.

Bringing up base rushing is also pretty laughable. Sure it wins a game or two, but it is far from a reliable way to drive wins. The most reliable way to drive wins is to kill everything on the field, hence damage is important. Getting fast kills is certainly an important part of that, but if you're getting multiple fast kills you're typically still seeing good damage numbers unless your opponents literally just stare at you and wait to die (which does happen on occasion).

VonBruinwald, on 05 March 2020 - 11:28 AM, said:

Given the choice I'd rather take a teammate who scores 200dmg with dual H.Gauss over one scoring 500 with lurms, mostly.

Do I look like a lrm apologist to you?


In all seriousness, that's actually a pretty close call. 200 damage is between 2.5 and 4 alphas of a DHG build (with something like a DHG Thanny or Victor doing just 50 per alpha, and the big alpha Anni doing 80). Considering that's a heavy or assault mech 2.5 to 4 alphas is setting a really low bar. Yes, pinpoint damage is inherently worth more than spread damage, but 200 damage is not worth a whole lot anyway outside of some very specific situations like one-shotting a mech or two.

[D U N E]

Technically, your team has mechs, and overall to see if a team is winning or loosing you can use that collective health pool of the available mechs. A team with 12 90% mechs has a larger collective pool than a team with 12 10% mechs, and thus is more likely to win.

People that complain about armor sharing IMO are usually the brawlers that don't want to wait for other players to use their armor effectively. I remember having a game while I was in an AC2 direwolf and I got onto a great perch and didn't stop shooting the enemy, but I was bad at the game cause I didn't jump down a canyon, go into a spot where I couldn't shoot, and "share armor" with the team, cause i'm an assault mech and I should be sharing my armor. The fact I am wearing away the enemies overall pool while also not needlessly wasting my own teams pool was apparently ignored.

Sharing armor with your team mates is IMO for much smaller confrontations and more organised fights, such as when you let the 10% mech push after the 50% mech - the issue being many players only do (an attempt) nascar and (bad) brawl push, and most the time sharing armour is not viable, possible or just a general scape goat. If you see your only team mate is in a stealth gauss thanatos, that guy is going to try to prolong that armor for as long as possible, expecting them to just reveal themselves ruins their decision and is quite illogical. As while it's irritating, why would someone risk losing an entire mech to save a mech that is at 20%-60% health? And what happens if you are a waste of a mech?

[Prototelis]

VonBruinwald, on 05 March 2020 - 12:55 PM, said:

And you literally aren't pooling your Health with anyone...

I literally am, any time I make myself an available target and draw aggro. lol.

Hazeclaw, on 05 March 2020 - 12:25 PM, said:

it takes 2 players to share armor, armor sharing works every time

Here I'll fix this for you.

It takes at least 2 players to health pool, in a 2v1 the 1 mech usually loses, health pooling as a high success rate.

Edited by Prototelis, 05 March 2020 - 01:24 PM.

[VonBruinwald]

Prototelis, on 05 March 2020 - 01:23 PM, said:

I literally am, any time I make myself an available target and draw aggro. lol.

Are you trying to redefine health now? Armour + Structure = Health

Or to put it in end game terms, Dmg taken = Health lost.

Drawing aggro = sharing armour.

Edited by VonBruinwald, 05 March 2020 - 01:30 PM.

[Prototelis]

Are you trying to redefine the concept of health pooling by means of drawing aggro?

Drawing fire is health pooling; eating **** for no reason is armor sharing.

[VonBruinwald]

Prototelis, on 05 March 2020 - 01:49 PM, said:

Are you trying to redefine the concept of health pooling by means of drawing aggro?

You have yet to define health pooling in a way that makes sense and isn't just a re-brand of an existing concept.

[Prototelis]

You have yet to describe armor sharing as anything other than eating **** for no reason.

[VonBruinwald]

Prototelis, on 05 March 2020 - 02:05 PM, said:

You have yet to describe armor sharing as anything other than eating **** for no reason.

That's how you described it. Are you arguing with yourself now. Because boy oh boy do I have a Nascar thread for you...

[Prototelis]

Thats how the OP described it, and how most people using the term in practice. Literally equated armor sharing to running up a ramp to eat **** in a cicada.

Don't you have a backroom e-sports conspiracy thread to tend somewhere?

[OmniFail]

Stop thinking of the game in this backwards way!

Instead of trying to spread the damage among the team, try instead to think about how to move together and focus fire as a team; on single targets in an attempt to burn them down and remove their firepower from the equation.
Because when a team does so they rob the opposing force of the ability to spread, share, and pool armor.

While it may be difficult to get teammates to take hits though some mythical armor sharing fantasy, you will have a easier time convincing your teammates to focus fire on single targets.

Down with the cult of armor sharing. Up with the roving robotic beat down mob.

[VonBruinwald]

Prototelis, on 05 March 2020 - 02:10 PM, said:

Don't you have a backroom e-sports conspiracy thread to tend somewhere?

Try not to be a double-jerk by derailing this thread like you did the other.

[Prototelis]

^This is called big engine stomp meta, and it is what grew into the dual rotation event known as nascar being the most prevalent aspect of SQ.

VonBruinwald, on 05 March 2020 - 02:27 PM, said:

Try not to be a double-jerk by derailing this thread like you did the other.

Oh we that level now.

Well... try not to be such a stupid stupid-face!

Edited by Prototelis, 05 March 2020 - 02:28 PM.

[OmniFail]

Prototelis, on 05 March 2020 - 02:27 PM, said:

^This is called big engine stomp meta, and it is what grew into the dual rotation event known as nascar being the most prevalent aspect of SQ.

Share more speed with the team bro!!!!

Oh wait I did say "move together and focus fire as a team."
I said nothing about NASCAR
I also said nothing against NASCAR

Edited by OmniFail, 05 March 2020 - 02:37 PM.

[VonBruinwald]

Prototelis, on 05 March 2020 - 02:27 PM, said:

Oh we that level now.

We were ALWAYS at that level, you were just a little slow getting there, try and keep up with the Nascar.

BOT:

OmniFail, on 05 March 2020 - 02:15 PM, said:

While it may be difficult to get teammates to take hits though some mythical armor sharing fantasy, you will have a easier time convincing your teammates to focus fire on single targets.

That's the solution, call out weak targets, watch everyone mob them to pad stats and inadvertently share their armour...

OmniFail, on 05 March 2020 - 02:34 PM, said:

Share more speed with the team bro!!!!

I think you may have just invented speed pooling! Strap an Annihilator to the top of a flea so it can keep up with the Nascar!

Edit:

Nevermind, been done!

Edited by VonBruinwald, 05 March 2020 - 02:38 PM.

[Prototelis]

OmniFail, on 05 March 2020 - 02:34 PM, said:

Share more speed with the team bro!!!!

Oh wait I did say "move together and focus fire as a team."
I said nothing about NASCAR
I also said nothing against NASCAR

You didn't have to, big engine stomp meta and murder balling are the genesis of the dual rotation event called Nascar.