200 replies to this topic

[Alreech]

Galahad2030, on 18 April 2020 - 11:01 AM, said:

Understandable that group voice chat doesn't kick off until the screen with all players synching up, but sometimes if the wait is long it's boring to wait with your group without being able to do group things like text chat.

PGI uses Teamspeak as VOIP solution.
At the moment the VOIP Channel for the Groups are created then the match is created, and the players are joined to the according team channel.
But Teamspeak is also able to move whole sub channels to a channel.

MWO could create a sub VOIP channel for a group after group creation, and move the sub channel to the team channel during match making.
That would allow to use the VOIP before, after and during a match, making 3rd party tools like Discord & other Teamspeak Server obsolete.

Edited by Alreech, 19 April 2020 - 03:36 AM.

[Alreech]

BrioS, on 18 April 2020 - 08:11 PM, said:

Many people are returning to group queue with small Lance sized units. Matchmaking is fast and everyone seems to be enjoying themselves a lot being able to drop in small groups which is great! ...
...
In 12v12, forming a 4 man group can take eternity to find a match.

The eternity to find a match with a group of 4 in 12 vs 12 is due the variable group size, and playing in a 4 player group was always the fastest way of matchmaking.

For group sizes of 10 & 9 players is in 12 vs 12 just one combination possible (10+2, 9+3).
Small groups (2 & 3 players) have to wait to fill up the gap in big groups (10 & 9 players), medium size groups (4, 5, 6, 7, 8 players) can't be used for that and get faster a match.

Reducing the match size but still allow a variable group size just makes it worse:
Now groups with 6 & 5 players are problematic (6+2, 5+3), and such groups are much more common than 10 or 9 players.
Small groups (2 & 3 players) have still to wait to fill up the gap in big groups (6 & 5 players), medium size groups (4 players) can't be used for that and get faster a match.
So whats the benefit of reducing match size to 8 vs 8 but still allowing 6 & 5 player groups?
The simplest solution:
Don't use variable group sizes, use fixed ones like 4 or 8 or 12.
Start with 4 players as fixed group sizes, allow an upgrade to 8 or 12 players if more friends want to join.
Use smaller map sizes and 4 vs 4 or 8 vs 8 matches if not enough groups are aviable to set up a 12 vs 12 match.

But the MWO Players hate to invite strangers to their group, and they want to leave the match as soon as the whole group is down to grind XP & C-Bills with an other Mech, so fixed group sizes won't happen.

Edited by Alreech, 19 April 2020 - 03:37 AM.

[AndiMech]

Well our unit had a blast last night!
We started with a group of 3. Then 4 and 5.
At the end we had to wait a few minutes for an 8th man, because with 7 you can't get a match(but oddly still launch)
Then we even had people waiting to fill up spots...

Wait times were from 1-2 minutes up to INSTA-DROPS. US primetime/EU after-midnight.

So for now it seems to be working prettty well.

Bugs:
- in LFG it still says X free spots for a 12man
- 7man groups can be launched
- match score has to be adjusted/given a bonus, for events and jarls-list

[Pz_DC]

With current state of MM and balance IMHO make quick play games are 8-8 (or even less!) only is a good way to make a things better, but same rules for groups only will change nothing.
Same time, balancing and PSR need to be changed to work better, because those days there are no difference between PSR t1 and t4.

P.S. group queue 8-8? Worth a try to see how it will go with farm and economy to change global rules of the game, other way - no.

[Warning incoming Humble Dexterer]

Alreech, on 19 April 2020 - 03:31 AM, said:

Don't use variable group sizes, use fixed ones like 4 or 8 or 12.

Use a single fixed group size : 4

Then the QP requirement is to have the same amount of 4man groups on each side : 0, 1, 2 or 3 of them.
So that's :
- 4man+4man+4man vs 4man+4man+4man
- 4man+4man+4single vs 4man+4man+4single
- 4man+8single vs 4man+8single
- 12 single vs 12 single

And during dead time :
- 4man+4man vs 4man+4man
- 4man+4single vs 4man+4single
- 8 single vs 8 single

and when there isn't enough players to launch a 8vs8, launch a 4vs4 scout match. BUT never launch more then one scouting match on the whole server : If there's enough players to play two scouting matches, wait for the single allowed scout match to end and launch a 8vs8 instead.

[FRAGTAST1C]

AndiMech, on 19 April 2020 - 04:16 AM, said:

match score has to be adjusted/given a bonus, for events and jarls-list

I don't think that's necessary.

[Gagis]

The difference between average match score, damage, c-bills and xp between 8v8 and 12v12 is small enough that its not really important. They can fiddle with it to make a small improvement, but its really one of those really small fiddly bits you might not want to spend time working on.

We (WDMC) played with a group size running between 4 and 8 last night and had an absolute blast. Thanks to everyone we got to play against. Tho that one game on canyon where we humiliated ourselves and pitifully lost never happened and no one saw us do that. Nu-uh. You saw nothing.

[This Crit is Bananas BANANAS]

Dear PGI,

Like to start off by wishing I could apologize on behalf of all the negative feedback you guys are receiving after knowing full well that you guys had absolutely no, true, “need” to do ANYTHING about your game, in the first place. But you did. You did something. You did something for the people who are still here, for the people that never took 1, 2, 3 year long breaks, and even for the people who did- in the end, it was still a break - and they came back. So- to them, to you, I say THANK YOU. Thank you to PGI for making such a simple fix to such a ****** situation. We, at EYRI, and with the help of other small, organized units, and our streamers, have been struggling to get 24 players huddled to play on Fridays and Saturdays. But we did. We realized and then told you guys that the key to dropping was to drop with 4 man lances. We consistently found drops. We had a solid couple of weeks dropping in 4 man lances, and each week, found matches. You guys noticed. PGI also listened when we said how much easier it would be to cap group to 4 man lances or 8 mans. It worked. And, I do truly believe that there will no longer only be “group queue Fridays” or “group queue Saturdays” - I really believe this will now happen every night for the foreseeable future. So, again, as leader of EYRI, and on behalf of the rest of us who have been spinning the queue on Fridays and Saturdays - THANK YOU.

With that out of the way - I also wish to say one last time- that I think a fix to keeping queue spinning would be to have your servers work on 8 man teams if/when number of matches dip below x number of games, world wide — but, then open up to 12 man teams if/when the queue is spinning well enough to keep X+1 number of games going. So simply if “matches < X teams = 8 but if/when matches > X teams = 12” I also realize this would mean a subtle change to the UI to ensure players know which one is currently happening - whether they drop with their own 8 man or 12 man groups. Anyway, just my 2 cents on the matter.

In hind sight, could also just as easily create 2 separate game modes, 1 for 8 mans and a fully separated mode for 12 mans.


Thanks for the read and, as always, o7 from EYRI

BLOOD

Edited by The Blood Eagle, 19 April 2020 - 09:48 AM.

[n00biwan]

I see a few posts about the MS/payout balance in 8v8.

The Cbill grind is real if you are building an account.

While you are at it, how about we look at MS in CW so that the matchscore events aren't all about qp? pls?

Edited by n00biwan, 19 April 2020 - 08:16 AM.

[Dionnsai]

Please add queue counters so we can see if other groups are waiting or not.

[Aldodrem]

Dionnsai, on 19 April 2020 - 09:30 AM, said:

Please add queue counters so we can see if other groups are waiting or not.

Yeah, like Solaris mode has.

[Al_Bundy]

ity must be established, group of 4 against group of 4 etc.

It is a mess that in the FP an 8+ group dominates everything.

All new players who try this mode will be framed, and solo players as well.

It would be best if ma can not choose which side to play on, you form a group or start solo and are simply assigned to one side.

or quite simply: give the fraction rewards also in the fast game, then you don't have to expose yourself to these eternal waiting times and the egos of some players, they can then form their farm groups and leave the "normal" players alone.

and if it doesn't suit what I write:

In every comparable game, it is absolutely normal that the MM adapts the groups, only not here ... because the players are missing here or the developer simply does not care.

And I think we all agree that the players are missing (why do you think ... who wants to be farmed all the time), and the developer doesn't care, the game was hit against the wall and instead of winning new players, you can do it

translated by Google .

Edited by 4057, 19 April 2020 - 11:40 AM.

[Mochyn Pupur]

Final reason not to play . . . . too little, too late, never listened to your players.

[Sniper09121986]

The Blood Eagle, on 19 April 2020 - 07:12 AM, said:

Dear PGI,

Like to start off by wishing I could apologize on behalf of all the negative feedback you guys are receiving after knowing full well that you guys had absolutely no, true, “need” to do ANYTHING about your game, in the first place.

I disagree. They keep the game shop open, ergo they are still making money (in theory). And if they take our money they most certainly need to improve the game that we the users give and have given our money for. I do realise they can just pull the plug and tell us all to p1ss off, but that does not mean they should do it. I am grateful for the attention they give to the game, but let us not overreact on this one.

[Bolo Atari]

PeppaPig, on 19 April 2020 - 11:31 AM, said:

Final reason not to play . . . . too little, too late, never listened to your players.

Can I haz yur stuff?

[justcallme A S H]

The Blood Eagle, on 19 April 2020 - 07:12 AM, said:

Dear PGI,
In hind sight, could also just as easily create 2 separate game modes, 1 for 8 mans and a fully separated mode for 12 mans.

Please no. It's either 8 or it's 12.

No need to over complicate everything and build in even more mechanics.

[Antares102]

justcallme A S H, on 19 April 2020 - 12:56 PM, said:

No need to over complicate everything and build in even more mechanics.

Also we have enough buckets.

[Red Potato Standing By]

PeppaPig, on 19 April 2020 - 11:31 AM, said:

Final reason not to play . . . . too little, too late, never listened to your players.

so for you this was the straw that brok the camels back? wierd.....

[PotatoCrunch]

I really appreciate the effort that has been made to improve the “playing with your friends” experience, whether or not it has produced ideal results. After all, the friend that I play with originally quit because sync dropping was a sort of a gamble if we wanted to play together, and previous group queue timers were far too long (20+ minutes). Faction play wasn’t really much of a good option either, since one side commonly snowballs early in the match and the next 20 minutes are almost always one sided: it’s fun to play with friends, but it’s not fun to feel like you can’t do anything after the first 10 minutes (if you’re on the losing side).
It’s nice to have my friend return even for a bit, but we noticed a new problem: we’re not sure how true it is, but group 8v8 feels less casual than the previous group 12v12. If one side gets a kill, it feels a lot more advantageous for them than in a 12v12. It’s hard to experiment with builds when your team of 3-4 separate groups doesn’t work well together to fight the enemy’s group of 6 or 8. Again, I’m not sure how true this is, to me, group 8v8 feels a lot more competitive than the standard 12v12. I don’t know how I would fix this, this is just an annoyance my friend and I have. On the plus side, if you lose, you lose quickly, unlike faction play.

Regarding faction play, I think that people should have the ability to call a surrender vote after the first 12 kills.

[Kestrel Atreides]

This has been great! Thanks. (I think you should put an option, along with the server, to drop into group queue to fill it up)