297 replies to this topic

[Brain Cancer]

Alreech, on 27 April 2020 - 02:24 PM, said:

Quickplay must die so MWO can live.

Ah, yes because CW is so popular. And group queue instantly gets players. Right?

(We don't mention Solaris here.)

No, this is more the other way around- attempting to feed group mode fed into the solo queue to keep things fueled there, even if it's possibly going to foul things further.

[Alreech]

Brain Cancer, on 27 April 2020 - 04:19 PM, said:

Ah, yes because CW is so popular. And group queue instantly gets players. Right?

CW got more popular after the group queue match making problems started.

IMHO the whole player base splitting "by player type" at the moment makes no sense and create only toxic between the "player types":
Quickplay Solo "for teh bad playerz"?
Quickplay Group "for the good, competetive playerz"?
Faction Warfare ? "kinda of Quickplay Group, but with Respawns and Mech selection for the map and the realy big groups?"

IMHO it should be more like what different Queues by match size:

1 vs 1 Solaris
2 vs 2 Solaris
4 vs 4 small maps
8 vs 8 middle size maps
12 vs 12 big maps

Group sizes between 2 - 4 players.
Match maker moves Solo players to smaller groups.
3 Mech dropdeck with 165 tons to not bother the matchmaker with tonnage balancing.
With a fixed group size of 4 the match maker can set up matches from 4 vs 4 to 8 vs 8 to 12 vs 1.
Few groups = 4 vs 4
Plenty of groups = 12 vs 12

Things like Solaris & the Siege Maps in Faction Warfare (4 Mech drop deck) should kept optional.

Edited by Alreech, 28 April 2020 - 01:54 AM.

[Joe Lean]

It's a very rare occasion that I've been on here to post something. Just a few times when MWO was fresh and new, and I don't recall having posted anything in the past five years or more. As someone who has been a big fan of Battletech and Mechwarrior since the 80s, I play (still, for now) simply because I really like the Mechwarrior universe. My experience with MWO has often been one of "I'll put up with this gameplay experience because I'm such a diehard Battletech/Mechwarrior fan." The last couple of days though, has just been, quite frankly, no fun at all for someone who isn't hooked up with a group/guild/whatever, and is basically in a situation where solo cue is all I am really set up to do (I was in a group for a little while, way back before there was voice chat via MWO -- this group used Teamspeak. That was actually a lot of fun). I can absolutely confirm some of the comments I've been reading on this thread anticipating that Quick Play solo cue will feel like a miserable disaster. Losing match after match after match repeatedly is simply not fun. I'm hoping to eventually play some MW5, which looks a lot like a genuine MW experience. I'm not sure why, but even before this new group cue experiment, there were days when wins were easy, and it seemed like the win streak was unstoppable no matter how poorly I may have played (*almost* felt guilty about those); and then, seemingly more frequent, were the days when a dozen losses in a row felt like an almost common event; then maybe you'd be on a winning team for a game, and it's back to the next dozen losses in a row. Statistically speaking, that's simply not chance. I figure I'm a pretty mediocre player... but I don't think I'm that horrible... I'll have losses where my skill rating equals out... even had one recently where I apparently went up. But what's happening now is just miserably imbalanced. Perhaps off topic, but... (related to a perceived imbalance) I imagine if there was some kind of stock mech only mode, that might mitigate some of the imbalance. When your medium mechs are almost commonly getting one-shotted by a tweaked gamer build fairly early in a match (and not because you're standing still)... that's not Mechwarrior. It's maybe Mech-Gamer... and there's a difference. Even for highly skilled players, I imagine the game play would be a lot more fun if you have to work a little harder for those kills.

Edited by Joe Lean, 02 May 2020 - 05:33 PM.

[AnUndeadMonkey]

Just had a sync drop, Rifleman IIC-2, 6 on one team. Let the ones of the other team survive, also in a Rifleman IIC-2 in domination on crimson straight. They purposely didn't kill a player on the other team. Might as well bring back Knockdown if there will be this kind of bad game play. The matches have been so out of balance its not fun to play or even really try. This is the worst the game has been since Beta. While your at messing the game up, bring back Escort mode too. Go big or go home I guess.

[Alreech]

Joe Lean, on 02 May 2020 - 04:39 PM, said:

It's a very rare occasion that I've been on here to post something. Just a few times when MWO was fresh and new, and I don't recall having posted anything in the past five years or more. As someone who has been a big fan of Battletech and Mechwarrior since the 80s, I play (still, for now) simply because I really like the Mechwarrior universe. My experience with MWO has often been one of "I'll put up with this gameplay experience because I'm such a diehard Battletech/Mechwarrior fan."

I'm also a die hard Battletech fan, and I don't find much of the BT-Lore in MWOs Quickplay:

• Factions are mixed
  
• no Lances working as team

Quote

The last couple of days though, has just been, quite frankly, no fun at all for someone who isn't hooked up with a group/guild/whatever, and is basically in a situation where solo cue is all I am really set up to do (I was in a group for a little while, way back before there was voice chat via MWO -- this group used Teamspeak. That was actually a lot of fun).

You liked playing in a small group, and now don't like playing solo because of groups on the other side?
I liked to play in a small group too, wasn't possible for almost a year due long waiting times in matchmaker.

Faction Warfare was an alternative for that, an while it's much better because you can use dropdecks to choose your Mech fitting for the map and the respawns allowing you to risk light Mechs as scouts it has his problems.
Like many of the maps being to small for 12 vs 12 with 4 respawns or the same lack of teamwork & communication between groups on the same team.

IMHO PGI should improve the ways for Solo players to group up, and reduce the group sizes to 1 - 4.
Improving ad hoc grouping would be for example adding VOIP to groups.
Reducing group size to 4 would allow to set up 4 vs 4, 8 vs 8 & 12 vs 12 matches depending on the numbers of groups in the Queue.
More but smaller groups would also allow to use a "Group Tier" calculated from the Tiers of the Players in the Group to balance group play.

[Joe Lean]

AnUndeadMonkey, on 02 May 2020 - 05:20 PM, said:

The matches have been so out of balance its not fun to play or even really try. This is the worst the game has been since Beta. While your at messing the game up, bring back Escort mode too. Go big or go home I guess.

Matches out of balance... agreed.... I mean, it felt very out of balance before, and for some reason very streaky (I'd be on a lot of winning teams one day, and almost entirely all losing matches the next... like, it has felt like not uncommonly a dozen in a row. That alone feels pretty bad and can be unpleasant. But most of the last couple of days have been even worse. Some of my own unpleasant play-experience is surely due to my need to adapt my own play style to the present situation and get better... but... there seems to be more to it than that.

[Joe Lean]

Alreech, on 03 May 2020 - 04:52 AM, said:

I'm also a die hard Battletech fan, and I don't find much of the BT-Lore in MWOs Quickplay:

• Factions are mixed
  
• no Lances working as team

Right... and that's all kind of just understood and tolerated... in that sense, I feel like I'm not asking too much of it (MWO). That kind of thing was something I learned to let go of very early on after the game came out. I actually thought the early post-release game play was more fun, even when not playing in a group, because at least the play and mechs were more balanced. But at present, it seems that there are high tier players who can actually coordinate (have people to coordinate with), playing against those of us who have to do our best to try and work together with others on the "team" when those others may or may not want or know how to do so, *and* those high tier players are using mech builds that work well for them, but add to the imbalance of play. The results are that players such as myself are just getting steamrolled nearly every game, which makes it no fun to play. Last night I was in some pretty good games during the time frame when there were probably more players on, and a lower percentage of hardcore gamers. It was a brief but delightful mix of wins and losses, but those losses weren't so bad when it was at least a fun or exciting match. But during those other times, when the population is, shall we say, less diverse, even the wins are no fun when, for example, my assault mech get's one-shotted by an uber-Fafnir gamer-build early on... and even that's fine once or twice... you can take and expect an opponent to enjoy the fruit of, let's say a really nice headshot every once in a while... but cored through the CT with what is essentially a one-shot by that uber-build when you're in a slow moving assault... just doesn't feel right. The opponent didn't earn it, and didn't need to be lucky either. The player feels frustrated when that sort of thing happens too often. If you're in a faster, less armored mech, especially a light, you should know to expect it every once in a while. Sure, one doesn't expect to last very long while taking even an assualt mech into a hornet's nest of reds, and you try to avoid that kind of situation... but if you can't coordinate, as a solo cue dropper, you're kinda up the creek. For the first few losses, you say, "I can make this work," and you get back in there, and every once in a while, you do make it work because for that particular match, things are balanced, or you don't draw the short straw by being the solitary left-behind slowpoke that the other team runs across first. Sometimes I find myself playing with a few others where you can kind of read each other and you find yourselves working together despite the limitations, and that can make for a really fun match, even if you end up losing. Or, with "normal" drops (before the present experiment with groups in quick-play cue), if you're in that slowpoke assault, you expect to be in Charlie lance with other assaults that you might be able to keep up with, and that enhances balance of play. At present, my assault often enough ends up in Alpha lance, which doesn't typically work well, even if I do manage to join up with a couple other assaults. This isn't to say I'm an "assault player," since I have at least a couple mechs in each of the weight classes (I suppose I have typically enjoyed mediums best... and they seem the most forgiving for a fairly average player such as myself).

[Joe Lean]

Alreech, on 03 May 2020 - 04:52 AM, said:

You liked playing in a small group, and now don't like playing solo because of groups on the other side?
I liked to play in a small group too, wasn't possible for almost a year due long waiting times in matchmaker.

Faction Warfare was an alternative for that, an while it's much better because you can use dropdecks to choose your Mech fitting for the map and the respawns allowing you to risk light Mechs as scouts it has his problems.
Like many of the maps being to small for 12 vs 12 with 4 respawns or the same lack of teamwork & communication between groups on the same team.

IMHO PGI should improve the ways for Solo players to group up, and reduce the group sizes to 1 - 4.
Improving ad hoc grouping would be for example adding VOIP to groups.
Reducing group size to 4 would allow to set up 4 vs 4, 8 vs 8 & 12 vs 12 matches depending on the numbers of groups in the Queue.
More but smaller groups would also allow to use a "Group Tier" calculated from the Tiers of the Players in the Group to balance group play.

Right, I'm presently not in a group (I think I'd enjoy it again if I were set up for it, and could do so with people who had the patience to put up with someone such as myself, who hasn't had much experience playing in groups, and isn't really an experienced gamer. I'm a strangely streaky player, it seems... there are matches in which I appear to do quite well, and matches in which I am on the bottom of the scoreboard). I was confirming comments made earlier in the thread that were saying the present state of mixed group/solo quick-play is going to make the playing experience unpleasant and drive a lot of people away (I'm finding myself in the position of one of those people who were anticipated by prior posts, who feels that the present state of play, for most of the past few days, has gone beyond being "no fun," to simply downright unpleasant. It's that rare, occasional gem of a match that keeps me around for now. When I was reading other posts earlier on in this thread saying, basically, "this is what's going to happen... the casual player is going to be driven away by this, because they're going to be repeatedly harvested as easy kills by people dropping together. It's happened before, and the player base is going to suffer," I thought, yes... bingo... because while the game has felt frustrating at times in the past, for a variety of reasons, this present situation feels like it's often just pointless to even try playing. That sentiment was anticipated by others previously in the thread, and so I felt rather validated when reading those posts/comments. I'm saying, "yup, you got that right... and I'm representative of that player base that you were talking about, who feels like it is generally just no fun right now." And I'm someone who didn't mind taking my semi-stock Centurion into matches with clan mechs and other higher end mechs, because when I did well in a match, I felt like I'd earned it, and that was fun. But the imbalances have been adding up. It's not just high level players being mixed in with average (or even somewhat good/decent) players... it's not just competition level gamer-builds being mixed in with the somewhat more universe-realistic or semi-stock "builds," that many of us might prefer to try and play, and perhaps it's not necessarily simply a matter of group/coordinated players dropping in against solo-cue casuals who just want to try and have some fun. But... when those things (and maybe others I'm not seeing) add up (synergistically, I might add)... well, that *might* be why we're seeing what seems like even more matches in which one side gets steamrolled by the other, *but* even in the matches that aren't 12-0 or some other relatively one-sided number, even when the matches appear more even (perhaps there was a fairly competitive 4-player group on both sides, for example), there's still an element of solo-cue players getting "harvested" as I think one prior commenter put it. So, the score might be more even, but the *play experience* is imbalanced. A bit of a very old complaint that I suppose I could add to the list (hey, while I'm at it, why not, right?) is what appears to be the relative crippling of higher tonnage mechs (and the relative boosting/enabling of lights, especially compared to what someone familiar with the universe/lore would expect) in order to make lights more "balanced" and appear playable, resulting in what some of us long-time Battletech/Mechwarrior fans find silly -- after all, in our lore-laden minds, light mechs are cheap and abundant, and *shouldn't* be able to keep parity with heavier, much more expensive equipment (I mean, why bother spending the money on heavies and assaults at all then?) but that's a whole new discussion. ;-) Now, a scoring system that gave value to light players by awarding what they did *per ton* (a multiplier for their match score?) might have been a good idea... and I do appreciate the points awarded for things like scouting and even lance in formation.

I did try faction play one day. Twice. Two matches, both on the same map. I realize it isn't a very good sample size, but.... What I encountered was simply far too many players (on my own team) without the patience for someone new to faction play. There were too many of these people in my two faction-play matches for it to be worth bothering. I have a decent enough sense of personal self worth to let it go... water off a duck's back, as they say. But it wasn't worth the ruffled feathers and upset attitudes of people who couldn't endure someone bringing LRMs into a faction match on their first day of trying it, or leading with the wrong mech in their drop deck, etc. Granted, there were a couple people who communicated those kinds of things in a constructive way, and others who curbed their frustration enough to be civil. But my overall experience was one that communicated to me a sense of "not worth my time." Maybe I'll try it again some time.

Sounds like you've got good ideas. I can't really speak to most of it though. I like the voice chat option that's presently incorporated into the game (like I mentioned before, we had to use Teamspeak when I was with a group a few years ago), but I'm not set up with a mic to use it now, which I suppose is a hurdle to my own game play... but... the comm feature by pressing "E" seems a great compromise, and really, I'd be a fan of keeping the comms generally clear anyway, and overall I'm happy to do my part in that. I think that in order for there to reliably be effective coordination, voice comm is important, but only goes so far. Just because you have a 4 person team that *can* communicate enough to coordinate doesn't mean that they will be effective in doing so. If you've got 4 decent/average players who work well together and have a good method for doing so, I think they'll probably beat four talented individuals who don't.

Thanks for the reply and the comments. Sorry for splitting my reply across two posts/comments... I haven't been much of a forums poster either! ;-) If you or anyone else wants to cue up with me, I'd be happy to give it a go, just so long as whoever it may be understands that I'm not on a mic, and I haven't been a serious or experienced gamer. I may need to be walked through some things. I'm happy to take direction -- which I suppose is another thing that's gotten me in hot water in the quick-play pick up games, hahah... someone calling for the team says, "go now," and too few of us do it, resulting in a trouncing! Ha.

[Joe Lean]

To ramble a bit more... I'd been playing a lot more in recent weeks. I had recently progressed into tier three and was climbing gradually (back and forth once or twice over the course of a couple of days, but felt like I'd easily passed far enough in by now to be safe). I felt confident in the progression and gradual consistent increase in the rating bar. Over the course of the last few days, that progress has plunged. Now I'm about to drop back down to the previous tier, and plunging quickly. So... yes, it appear that the new format has been affecting some of us negatively.

[Anomalocaris]

Joe Lean, on 03 May 2020 - 05:41 PM, said:

To ramble a bit more... I'd been playing a lot more in recent weeks. I had recently progressed into tier three and was climbing gradually (back and forth once or twice over the course of a couple of days, but felt like I'd easily passed far enough in by now to be safe). I felt confident in the progression and gradual consistent increase in the rating bar. Over the course of the last few days, that progress has plunged. Now I'm about to drop back down to the previous tier, and plunging quickly. So... yes, it appear that the new format has been affecting some of us negatively.

Sorry to hear that you're having a harder time of it. It's something many of us worried about. It's not really you though, it's that the Tier system is broken to begin with, and now it's not even in play. Hopefully they will take us back to a system that's more suitable for you. I hope that PGI is reading comments from players like you. You are just as important as the top level players when it comes to stuff like this.

[Joe Lean]

Anomalocaris, on 03 May 2020 - 06:52 PM, said:

Sorry to hear that you're having a harder time of it. It's something many of us worried about. It's not really you though, it's that the Tier system is broken to begin with, and now it's not even in play. Hopefully they will take us back to a system that's more suitable for you. I hope that PGI is reading comments from players like you. You are just as important as the top level players when it comes to stuff like this.

Thank you for the reply, as well as the kind and encouraging comments! *Much* appreciated! I do really enjoy the Battletech/Mechwarrior franchise, and have traditionally enjoyed Mechwarrior more than Battletech (I like the new Battletech game, but it's just not the same as the cockpit experience). I hope I'll get the opportunity to play MW5, perhaps some time next year. But even so, I don't want MWO to go away (or to continue to be as unpleasant an experience as the present situation makes it). In the grand scheme of life, these are small things to complain about... but... I would like to continue playing in a system where the more casual player and fan can go without getting trounced on most games.

I'm also kind of curious if you (or anyone else?) has any thoughts on why wins/losses can be so streaky... there are days when most matches are wins, and that's how the day goes even if I'm playing poorly. But then there are times when I simply can't get a winning match all day, match after match. Sometimes I play well enough for my rating to get an "equals," and those are fun even if it's a loss, but... statistically, when the day is going like that, one should get more wins even if they were disconnected every match or made zero contribution. I've read/heard others make similar comments... so I guess it's a thing. I realize that sometimes the losses can *feel* more numerous than the wins... but this isn't that. So, other than possible poor playing, is anyone aware of a reason why some of us seem to be in loss matches almost every match for such long streaks? (as an apparently regularly occurring, fairly common thing). Another reason I don't really blame poor playing is because I don't think that highly of any single player's ability among a group of 12 to sway the outcome *that* much... and statistically, if players are balanced anyway, it shouldn't matter. I mean, hey... there are days when it almost makes sense to just apologize to your team-mates at the beginning of the drop, before the match starts, because the outcome feels more or less predetermined. "Sorry you have to be on my team this match...". But... I've heard plenty of comments that either imply or directly say that I'm not the only one who's had this experience. Any thoughts on how that happens or why?

Again, thanks for the comments/reply above!

[Anomalocaris]

It comes down to the matchmaker. It basically treats about 50-60% of the population as equal in skill. So you might find yourself matched with someone who had vastly better performance than you do, but because the tier system is broken, it treats you as equals.

I'm a pretty decent player but I get those streaks as well. Last month I had a 3 day stretch were I went 2-19. I'd play 4-5 games, log off, come back the next day and repeat. Tried all sorts of different mechs, etc. It's just luck of the draw and a poorly designed player ranking system

[Joe Lean]

Again, thanks.

[Nearly Dead]

Tonight was a good night for gameplay. Did not have any of the craziness like last week. Played a couple of hours and enjoyed it.

[AnUndeadMonkey]

Joe Lean, on 03 May 2020 - 01:32 PM, said:

Matches out of balance... agreed.... I mean, it felt very out of balance before, and for some reason very streaky (I'd be on a lot of winning teams one day, and almost entirely all losing matches the next... like, it has felt like not uncommonly a dozen in a row. That alone feels pretty bad and can be unpleasant. But most of the last couple of days have been even worse. Some of my own unpleasant play-experience is surely due to my need to adapt my own play style to the present situation and get better... but... there seems to be more to it than that.

Now I had time to cool down from last weeks post..... The matches in QP solo are mostly out of balance. I'm going to try and explain what I see over the years of playing. When the game started I worked overnights, (US time) I was playing with Europeans mostly then, I'm guessing. They have a different play style, It's the same for during the day in the US, their night time or there abouts. I can tell by the players who are on that I see a lot. The night games in the US change the play style, even more so when its our weekend Friday night and Saturday nights, more people are on. Lets not talk about the games when events are active, LRMS, LRMS everywhere. When the Tier system started, I was in 3. I sat there for a good few months, 9 or so. I did jump to T2 I was there for years. After I played with different load outs, seeing what other players where building and making some few changes here and there. Then I was getting Higher match score did I make it to T1. I see some of the top players on the leader boards in games, over and over again at times. It is somewhat matched, not perfect but nothing ever is. I'll admit the top players are better then me, but I get them from time to time. Also The way the games play out, very few do "firing Lines". If you stand still your an easy target for Laser Vomit and those who can aim while still moving and know the hit boxes. I try to never stand still. I'd rather to "nascar" or death ball as I call it. The game is a simple numbers engine. 1v2 the 1 loses. 12v6 the 6 lose. The Domination mode, nascar is kinda the idea of the mode. dominate the other team. Duh. Focus fire, more damage done the faster they go down, again Duh.

I Have a mic but don't really use it, can never seem to set it up right and I'm very much an introvert. I play this as a escape from the real world and keeps my PTSD down. I'll play for a few hours get off and do the adult things I have to do and get back on throughout the day on my days off. I'll keep playing till they shut the servers off from beta to grave. Been playing Mechwarrior/Battletech since the early 90s. I like this one the most, I can build the most random things and make them work.

Enough from me. See you all in game. <o

[Joe Lean]

Nearly Dead, on 04 May 2020 - 06:03 PM, said:

Tonight was a good night for gameplay. Did not have any of the craziness like last week. Played a couple of hours and enjoyed it.

I was on for a while yesterday and noticed the same. Seemed "normal" again. Not sure if there was any real difference, or if it's all just been a combination of luck and imagination....

[Nearly Dead]

Today was as bad as yesterday was good. Rude, arrogant, mouthy people who are old enough to know better.

They know what is going to happen if the game keeps shrinking, but they can't resist spitting in the pool and driving people out.

[Brain Cancer]

Joe Lean, on 02 May 2020 - 04:39 PM, said:

I figure I'm a pretty mediocre player... but I don't think I'm that horrible... I'll have losses where my skill rating equals out... even had one recently where I apparently went up.

*looks at account name*

*checks Jarl's List*

The truth is probably harsher than you want to know, but you're in the bottom third of the playerbase. If there actually was a real PSR system, you should never, ever have gotten past Tier 4 and would have been in a range where the average player you encountered was of similar competency to you- that is, below average. Instead, you're probably at least Tier 3 and used as queue fodder.

But honestly, that's part of the current queue for you- it makes bad play very, VERY obvious as it's harder to blend into the usual mess of accounts when there's a lance that will absolutely gut you if you don't have even the fundamentals down. You are a minnow and the sharks have been let into the tank.

[Brain Cancer]

Nearly Dead, on 07 May 2020 - 05:52 PM, said:

Today was as bad as yesterday was good. Rude, arrogant, mouthy people who are old enough to know better.

They know what is going to happen if the game keeps shrinking, but they can't resist spitting in the pool and driving people out.

I had it explained to me once.

You can't actually blow someone up in MWO and eliminate them from the game, but if you beat them hard enough, humiliate them often enough, they'll no longer play and that's just as good as it you turned every giant robot in their Mechbays into perma-virtual scrap. This pleases the toxic player, who apparently believes that if you're not good enough to play to their standards of basic competence, then you should be beaten until 1) the game properly separates the scrubs from their betters and they no longer have to deal with your incompetence or 2) they win by destroying the game and being at the top when it dies.

Not exactly my cup of sani-tea.

[Talorion]

I would like to get rid of something about bad players, beginners, etc. There was a time when you could try out a 'Mech without being blemished when you did less than 500 damage. Today I hardly dare to do that because this is what is happening. But the nice thing about this game is trying different armaments. Of course you shouldn't make nonsense, but with a mech that you are testing, you are not necessarily very good. Perhaps you shouldn't separate the groups according to ability, but into those who want to have fun and those who want to wage a total tactical war with their 80 alphastrike mechs ........ so the cool full professionals. I will probably get one on the lid of many, but I can no longer hear that with the tapping of the seals. By the way, I count myself among the rather bad players and I'm definitely the worst PPC sniper in the game. But I enjoy this game. And whoever finds errors in this text may keep them.

Incidentally, I admire all the top players because they never make a mistake or are unlucky. Unfortunately I make mistakes or have bad luck. Ever come around a house corner with a Hellspawn and faced an Atlas? When he has fired all his weapons, the hairstyle is easily mixed up.

Edited by Talorion, 08 May 2020 - 12:32 AM.