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Combining Group And Solo Queues - 4 Week Test


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#1 Paul Inouye

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 10:23 AM

Hey MechWarriors,

A follow-up to this post: https://mwomercs.com...ue-update-2020/

Starting Tuesday, April 28/2020 we are going to start a 4 week test on the live servers. This test is going to help us monitor the game's public queues and the overall effects of combining solo and group queues.

This is not just a simple combination of queues and seeing what happens, as we've taken steps to help address both internal and community concerns over that type of implementation. It's important to keep the teams as balanced as possible and to have games kick off in a relatively quick manner.

How the combined public queue will work:
- All matches will remain 12v12.
- Max group size will be restricted to 4 players. All group sizes of 2,3 and 4 are valid group sizes.
- When the Match Maker builds a 12-player team, it will ensure that there is no more than one 4 player group or as close as possible (2 player + 2 player for example) per team and all remaining slots will be filled with solo players.

What we expect:
- Playing with a smaller group of friends will be much easier to accomplish.
- Matches should kick off drastically faster than previously.
- Matches will become more competitive.

What we are monitoring:
- Match Maker ability to maintain even team building.
- Tonnage restrictions for groups. (note: we can adjust these dynamically/real time)
- Group composition and any release valves that may kick in to make games kick off.

At the end of the 4-week test, we will either leave it as is, or if there are major issues we do have the ability to roll the change back. Why 4-weeks? We want to collect as much telemetry as possible to determine queue behavior. With a reduced population sample, this takes longer than usual as we need to monitor activity as close to the norm as possible. If things are going drastically off course, we can revert sooner if needed.

We hope that you jump in the queue to experience the change first hand and have matches kick off in a much more reasonable amount of time.

EDIT:
My bad, no tonnage info for you... here it is as it currently sits (current values for groups as it has been for a while):

2-player groups: Min Tonnage 40, Max Tonnage 200
3-player groups: Min Tonnage 80, Max Tonnage 255
4-player groups: Min Tonnage 120, Max Tonnage 280

Again, these numbers can be adjusted on the fly with no down time. If you have suggestions on some tonnage numbers, post them and we can try them out.

Edited by Paul Inouye, 27 April 2020 - 03:40 PM.
Adding tonnage settings as of right now.


#2 Anomalocaris

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 11:19 AM

Nope, not gonna bother. See you in June if you roll it back.

Edit: And fix the damn matchmaker before you try anything else, because nothing you've said supports your assertion that matches will be more competitive

#playyourowngamedevs

Edited by Anomalocaris, 27 April 2020 - 11:23 AM.


#3 Gagis

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 11:26 AM

Let's see how this goes. Data will be a bit skewed by lack of a PSR reset, but it should still give something.

#4 Brauer

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 11:34 AM

View PostPaul Inouye, on 27 April 2020 - 10:23 AM, said:

What we expect:
- Matches will become more competitive.



So what is the logic behind that exactly? Given there's no way for the matchmaker to effectively sort players by ability (based on the info you all have provided and experience) I'm not aware of any reason this would make games more competitive. My experience with group queue, including during the recent revival, is that it's far stompier than solo queue, and I don't see why tossing the queues together would change that (other than to place solo droppers at a disadvantage).

Edited by Brauer, 27 April 2020 - 11:34 AM.


#5 Thraka

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 11:38 AM

Yahhh so glad to hear this. Now I can play with my friend without waiting 10 minutes and essentially making us not want to play.

#6 Borgey

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 11:42 AM

Looks like you chose the right path, no other game seperates their group and solo queues. The only things that get seperated are ranked and non ranked. Now we don't need to wait for 10+ minutes just for a group queue.

#7 lance3006

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 11:45 AM

Sounds awesome!!

#8 LordNothing

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 11:45 AM

psr needs to both be reset and made symmetrical.

#9 Davegt27

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:00 PM

View PostLordNothing, on 27 April 2020 - 11:45 AM, said:

psr needs to both be reset and made symmetrical.


why is that ??

#10 Dionnsai

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:02 PM

Are you going to do anything to get bad pilots out of the upper tiers? I don't see how you can balance teams if you don't fix the current tier system.

#11 Anomalocaris

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:03 PM

View PostDavegt27, on 27 April 2020 - 12:00 PM, said:


why is that ??


Because the current PSR system means that simply playing enough games will see you go up in Tier until you reach Tier1 (unless you're in the bottom 5-10% of players). It has an upward bias built in to the scoring.

#12 Dee Eight

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:04 PM

View PostBorgey, on 27 April 2020 - 11:42 AM, said:

Looks like you chose the right path, no other game seperates their group and solo queues. The only things that get seperated are ranked and non ranked. Now we don't need to wait for 10+ minutes just for a group queue.


Other games don't have the ludicrously coded tier/psr system this game has though... WoT and WoW seperate the vehicles by tier, not the players. Tier 8 tanks don't fight in the same matches as Tier 2 tanks. Since MWO treats all mechs as equals, you're left to sort the players... and a system that doesn't allow for negative progress on team wins, never sends players who are carried by down to the minor leagues. The group queue never took psr into consideration at all. It strictly matched on tonnage per group with 2 man groups being allowed 200 tons and I think it was 600 tons for a 12-man group (thus six 2-mans are better than one 12-man). Once again PGI is ignoring the player base who for a week now have been saying this is a REALLY bad idea... and they're just going to do whatever they want regardless.

#13 Dionnsai

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:04 PM

View PostDavegt27, on 27 April 2020 - 12:00 PM, said:


why is that ??


In the current system a pilot who hasn't got the skill to succeed in tier 4-5 can still be tier 1 if he's dropped enough matches. That's bad for him, and bad for his team. It would be better for everyone (including him) if he remained in the lower tiers.

#14 Gakuseinozen

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:04 PM

Just wanted to add my two cents

Please don't merge solos with group queue. Keep group queue 8v8 and leave it at that.

8v8 has been a positive change that has brought some excitement back to the game; it is a known quantity.

Merging solos with group queue has the ability to drive players away, and this game doesn't need that with the population being so low already.

Go with the option that you KNOW will be good for the game, not the one that might be.

Thank you!

Edited by Gakuseinozen, 27 April 2020 - 12:06 PM.


#15 IanDresarie

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:05 PM

Thanks for giving it a shot! Even more so for leaving it up an appropriate amount of time!

My group is very much looking forward to playing together again!

Edited by IanDresarie, 27 April 2020 - 12:07 PM.


#16 Brother MEX

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:07 PM

View PostPaul Inouye, on 27 April 2020 - 10:23 AM, said:

Starting Tuesday, April 28/2020 we are going to start a 4 week test on the live servers. ...

How the combined public queue will work:
- All matches will remain 12v12.
- Max group size will be restricted to 4 players. All group sizes of 2,3 and 4 are valid group sizes.
- When the Match Maker builds a 12-player team, it will ensure that there is no more than one 4 player group or as close as possible (2 player + 2 player for example) per team and all remaining slots will be filled with solo players..
Good idea Posted Image

#17 Larsh

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:07 PM

Sounds good to me Paul. My group is ready to test this out, and look forward to see what these changes do to the game. If anything we are happy that we can finally group up again instead of sync dropping.

Also, thanks for making this a longer test. More time than a week allows for more data collection.

Each player needs to spend time trying this out. If you leave now, and don't test this out for at least for a week or two, you can't come back to say it didn't work. They need the data to see if it does work. And, if the data shows that this is a bad idea, then we go back to the old method of things.

#18 Pz_DC

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:08 PM

To make "matches more competitive" You need to increase ability of every player in team affect overall match result, IMHO it can be done by 2 ways - 1)make new MM to sort players better then it is now 2)lower players in a match.

Edited by Pz_DC, 27 April 2020 - 12:10 PM.


#19 Frankenst3in

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:09 PM

I suspect some people think this will revitalize the grouped population, but I think this will kill the solo population. Seems counterproductive to the continuation of this game. Having already done this years ago, I know what to expect, and won't be playing most likely. You will either be the farmer or the crops. Spoiler alert, if you aren't already sure you and your buddies will be the farmers, you are the crops.

#20 Smotty

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:12 PM

He never listens... RIP MWO.

How about adding totals of players in group queue along with size of groups? Leave it 8v8 as it's been amazing since the change. This would allow for faster match making as groups could adjust sizes as needed to get matches.

That's too much common sense...

Edited by Smotty, 27 April 2020 - 12:16 PM.






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