1579 replies to this topic

[Sniper09121986]

Paul Meyers DEST, on 28 April 2020 - 02:37 AM, said:

Wow, maybe again the most opposite thing of what would make sense. Well done PGI

Nah, that thing would be to match a full 12-man against all pugs, like it used to be in the glory days of collisions and working jump jets. And they have failed even at that

[N3tRunn3r]

Few days ago as solo player I had joined only losing teams (12:1 / 12:2) for more than 12 matches in a row. Massively annoying. Yesterday same issue, 20 matches in a row, very very annoying.

If you keep the matchmaker as it is... nope thanks. That is the reason why I had a 2-years break.

But thanks for the next 4 weeks to test this mess all out and I hope for a MatchMaker improvement!! Finally...

I hate it and heavily dislike it to play with noobs, bad players and trolls and so being slaughtered like a dirty pig by the opposite team. I don't have a problem though, if our team are the slaughterers and kill such bad players within 5 minutes of gameplay.

And we all would gonna agree that newbies are needed to fill up the playerbase again, but please in a different ranking system. P.s.: I been here in MWO since Closed Alpha.


Edit_001:
On the official MWO Steam Forums, there is always a MWO hardcore-fanboy who writes that everything is fine with the MatchMaker but 12:1 and losing 10's of games in a row is then my fault. Such [Redacted]

Edited by GM Patience, 28 April 2020 - 08:03 AM.

[MechWarrior414712]

People acting like soloq was any good with the [Redacted] people that bring stuff with <2dps who cares now u can play with friends

[Synth]

I'm legit re downloading this game because of this update. I understand some of the other super hardcore play this every day for 12 hour players feel but im sorry this game is on its way to death. This is a niche game and i out of my friends maybe one or two like MW or BT and even know of it. This game NEEDS players and new ones too. Not everyone is in a discord group to do group que or has time to spend 10000 hours a day on this game. To all the hardcore players the game will die because of you there needs to be balance and right now there are so much fundamentally wrong with the game like the Tier system people are talking about and the player population. I deleted this game originally because me and a buddy could NEVER find a match ever. We would have to solo que at the same time in hopes to get into the same match. There is no reason anyone should do that i know some don't like but i also don't like not being able to play with a friend and also don't enjoy wasting my time at a search screen for 40 min to have the game find groups. This game needs these to be combined and it needs more people. They take this away ill get rid of the game again. I have 1000 other things id rather be doing that sitting at a screen waiting to find players for a hour. The tier system needs a rework but that's another story.

[Larsh]

N3tRunn3r, on 28 April 2020 - 03:46 AM, said:

Few days ago as solo player I had joined only losing teams (12:1 / 12:2) for more than 12 matches in a row. Massively annoying. Yesterday same issue, 20 matches in a row, very very annoying.

If you keep the matchmaker as it is... nope thanks.

But thanks for the next 4 weeks to test this mess all out and I hope for a MatchMaker improvement!! Finally...

I hate it and heavily dislike it to play with noobs, bad players and trolls and so being slaughtered like a dirty pig by the opposite team. I don't have a problem though, if our team are the slaughterers and kill such bad players within 5 minutes of gameplay.

I tend to agree with you on your point here.

When PGI left to work on MW5, so did a chunk of the playerbase since no updates were being done, and many felt that PGI left MWO to lie in the dust. Since then, those that have continued to sync drop in Solo Queue have been at the whim of randoms that don't care to work as a team and do their own thing.

Not saying that happens every time, but lately its been often enough to notice. Without giving exact data, I feel like I may stumble across a decent team of randoms about 50% of the time. The other 50% is a quick loss at where you may see a game ending with 12-2.

In the past I used the phrase, "my group doesn't care if we lose". Since then, I think some may have taken it out of context saying that some casuals don't care to win. Instead, I should have phrased it better to:

We play to win, and as a team, but we don't get upset if we lose. We play on to the next match to see how we can change our playstyle and improve. We enjoy playing against the odds. Not every build we take in is derp.

For this month I look forward to playing with my friends again since we haven't been able to do so in a long time. And, I also look forward to playing with some of the more veteran players. I've watched past streams of the championships and it should be interesting to see these skills first hand either against you, or fighting along side with you.

[I Come In Peace]

Need way more information than what was given to determine if this is a good idea.

For instance, when combining the queues, will MM be updated to prefer segregation of groups and solo? If this is the case, then I agree with this move. It'll fill a match up with groups, then top off with singles of say the highest tier (which perhaps gets the simple overhaul of being able to go down in tier for bad games). That or it will fill a match up with solos and probably not have to top off with groups since solo queue is fast enough.

If MM does not segregate, this will likely lead to increasing competitiveness of the solo queue to the point that most solo players will not want to play anymore. You will get a 4-mech lance that acts in an extremely coordinated fashion against a ragtag group of mechs that are going their separate ways (but having fun doing it)

What does not make sense is why 4-weeks is needed to gather data. Guessing after a week of one of the two above scenarios and we'll know if this is a good idea or not.

I also want to understand whether it's cheaper to run one queue - is this another motive to combine?

I like how PGI is pretty transparent and crowd-sources ideas from the community. Keep doing this and do it more, but definitely think about the silent majority (probably the solo queuer's)

PGI has responded to a lot of issues - nerfing PIRs some, nerfing LRMS some. We have a few outperforming weapons and mechs but it's not agregious.

The outstanding issue in solo queue to date, IMHO, is the nascar issue. Solve this next after the group queue wait time!

Edited by I Come In Peace, 28 April 2020 - 04:43 AM.

[StuntChicken007]

You guys should all work for PGI. Hell, I bet if they hired you all the game would be fixed INSTANTLY lol. You guys have skillz for realz. Hell, why don't you guys just MAKE the game you want to play? Make it free and make every game a win. See Easy fix RIGHT? Make the pros play only other Pros and the noobs play only other noobs. I myself try to learn from the good players and find it enjoyable for a win or a loss.Can you imagine if when the new players joined in they never had the ability to hear an old skooler call the shots or lead the team to a win? = Noobs Forever. Like me LMAO.

Edited by StuntChicken007, 28 April 2020 - 04:58 AM.

[Brauer]

Brizna, on 28 April 2020 - 01:27 AM, said:

Your concern is correct yet player tier is not the only factor affecting competitiveness of matches. Match Maker's ability to create even games is also heavily influenced by pool of players waiting in queue, this change should help with that theoretically leading to more even games, obviously tier problem remain unaddressed.

I mean without fixing tiers/PSR it doesn't matter how many players are in queue, you will see bad results because the matchmaker simply cannot even begin to tell the difference between an extremely strong player and a player who is a liability to the teams they are placed in, much less the many gradients of skill in between.

[Spare Knight]

I Come In Peace, on 28 April 2020 - 04:43 AM, said:

Need way more information than what was given to determine if this is a good idea.

We'll see this afternoon.

[Axys Rageborn]

Allowing Solos to opt in to group que is the only way to "make group que great again!"

Allowing people like myself who are looking for a challenge to opt into a more competitive setting allows the following things to happen,

Solo que stays the way it is (good for casuals)
Group que has numbers to fill out games (good for groups)

It also has a knock on effect in that more people can play in groups and then more games can be played faster. If the games are found faster more people will want to group up and wow you have more groups to play with and less solos will be required.

Then with more games, you can improve the MM in group que and make it more competitive / fun for everyone.

Its not that hard to get honestly, with PSR the way it is now and with the changes coming there are gonna be losses and not just in game.

Ps - why is there no world/LFG chat that everyone can see and communicate through? like that would help a lot too.

[Larsh]

Brauer, on 28 April 2020 - 05:04 AM, said:

I mean without fixing tiers/PSR it doesn't matter how many players are in queue, you will see bad results because the matchmaker simply cannot even begin to tell the difference between an extremely strong player and a player who is a liability to the teams they are placed in, much less the many gradients of skill in between.

Totally agree that the Tier / PSR needs looked at.
I wonder if they decided not to address it due to lack of resources on their part, and they thought merging the queues would the "easier" fix.

[Spare Knight]

StuntChicken007, on 28 April 2020 - 04:50 AM, said:

Can you imagine if when the new players joined in they never had the ability to hear an old skooler call the shots or lead the team to a win? = Noobs Forever. Like me LMAO.

Being a noob, I consider it an honor when one of the good players will drop call a game. They don't even have to be a great player. Any co-ordination is better than no co-ordination. I am improving and will continue to do so, because of the good guys that help us to learn.

[w4ldO]

Larsh, on 28 April 2020 - 05:18 AM, said:

Totally agree that the Tier / PSR needs looked at.
I wonder if they decided not to address it due to lack of resources on their part, and they thought merging the queues would the "easier" fix.

it's becoming very obvious PGI just does not want a Pilot Skill Rating

it cannot be lack of resources. it is either integer variables in a file that get called or it is hardcoded in the <end of match> sub-routine. changing those values (or the sub-routine that does the calculation) should be easy.

[Larsh]

Spare Knight, on 28 April 2020 - 05:19 AM, said:

Being a noob, I consider it an honor when one of the good players will drop call a game. They don't even have to be a great player. Any co-ordination is better than no co-ordination. I am improving and will continue to do so, because of the good guys that help us to learn.

That's how I felt back when I started. Being able to play with experienced players can be a rush, especially when they are on coms. Back then, it felt like you were fresh grunt listening and following someone into the heat of battle. (I'm a glutton for classic action movies)

Because of that experience I even joined a unit, Aces, and I was able to learn from some really good players. Since then I did move on, and created my own group in a Discord.

[Dee Eight]

w4ldO, on 28 April 2020 - 05:31 AM, said:

it's becoming very obvious PGI just does not want a Pilot Skill Rating

it cannot be lack of resources. it is either integer variables in a file that get called or it is hardcoded in the <end of match> sub-routine. changing those values (or the sub-routine that does the calculation) should be easy.

I thought five years of threads complaining PSR/Tier doesn't work and never being responded to by PGI was the obvious part...

[Kamikaze Viking]

Thankyou Paul for the upcoming test, and proposed changes.

And Im glad that so many people in this thread have finally come to realize that PSR is the Root cause of most of these problems.

w4ldO, on 28 April 2020 - 05:31 AM, said:

it cannot be lack of resources. it is either integer variables in a file that get called or it is hardcoded in the <end of match> sub-routine. changing those values (or the sub-routine that does the calculation) should be easy.

... And here's how. Its much much simpler than many people in this thread think

1) Changes to the value of the thresholds of the PSR score given at the end of each match, and potentially the amount that a player goes up or down per match. This should require Zero programming (or a minor amount with Decency's suggestion below)

This is what we currently have:

This is what my version would be:

2) Followed by either a PSR reset and a period of PSR acceleration (like the first 25 games for a new player).
OR
2A) for less 'player tier shock' a PSR database re-distribution amongst the tiers using a standard distribution

(or a 2 pass statistical smoothing thing as in Decency's suggestion. i'm not a statistician, I'm sure someone can point out what its called)

All from this thread from nearly 3 years ago.
https://www.reddit.c..._response_from/

Decency said:

Here are two very simple and straightforward steps to fix the current tier system and make it actually meaningful:

Change the existing system from this,

to a zero-sum team-ranked system like this

Normalize all player ratings. Think of this as basically a half-reset. Instead of moving everyone back to the middle, you move them halfway back. If maxed T1 is 5000 and min T5 is 0, move people at the ends to 3750 and 1250 instead of moving everyone to the center, 2500. This lets the ranking system take effect more quickly and doesn't piss anyone off too much.

Edited by Kamikaze Viking, 29 April 2020 - 10:22 PM.

[Nesutizale]

I will reinstall to test this because I asked for this years ago and I want to see if I was wrong or right.

Sadly my people from back then won't join again to test 2-3 people group Q.

[Slothasaurus]

Dionnsai, on 27 April 2020 - 12:04 PM, said:

In the current system a pilot who hasn't got the skill to succeed in tier 4-5 can still be tier 1 if he's dropped enough matches. That's bad for him, and bad for his team. It would be better for everyone (including him) if he remained in the lower tiers.

This may be a dumb question but how does the person get to tier 1 if they keep sucking match after match? You don't automatically get skill increases just by playing do you? If the person is that bad it would make the team that much weaker making it harder for the team to win.

Edited by Slothasaurus, 28 April 2020 - 06:03 AM.

[Spare Knight]

Kamikaze Viking, on 28 April 2020 - 05:49 AM, said:

Thankyou Paul for the upcoming test, and proposed changes.

And Im glad that so many people in this thread have finally come to realize that PSR is the Root cause of most of these problems.


... And here's how. Its much much simpler than many people in this thread think

1) Changes to the value of the thresholds of the PSR score given at the end of each match, and potentially the amount that a player goes up or down per match. This should require Zero programming (or a minor amount with Decency's suggestion below)

2) Followed by either a PSR reset and a period of PSR acceleration (like the first 25 games for a new player) - or for less 'player tier shock' a PSR database re-distribution amongst the tiers using a standard distribution (or a 2 pass statistical smoothing thing. i'm not a statistician, I'm sure someone can point out what its called)

All from this thread from nearly 3 years ago.
https://www.reddit.c..._response_from/

Wouldn't it be simpler to just take the Win/Loss out of the equation and make it simply match score (adjusted for tonnage)?

[A Baoa Qu]

Dee Eight, on 27 April 2020 - 12:04 PM, said:

Other games don't have the ludicrously coded tier/psr system this game has though... WoT and WoW seperate the vehicles by tier, not the players. Tier 8 tanks don't fight in the same matches as Tier 2 tanks. Since MWO treats all mechs as equals, you're left to sort the players... and a system that doesn't allow for negative progress on team wins, never sends players who are carried by down to the minor leagues. The group queue never took psr into consideration at all. It strictly matched on tonnage per group with 2 man groups being allowed 200 tons and I think it was 600 tons for a 12-man group (thus six 2-mans are better than one 12-man). Once again PGI is ignoring the player base who for a week now have been saying this is a REALLY bad idea... and they're just going to do whatever they want regardless.

We have "tiers" for mechs in the Solaris game mode. Imagine if that would be applied to the public queue.