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Combining Group And Solo Queues - 4 Week Test


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#21 Anomalocaris

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:14 PM

View PostLarsh, on 27 April 2020 - 12:07 PM, said:

Sounds good to me Paul. My group is ready to test this out, and look forward to see what these changes do to the game. If anything we are happy that we can finally group up again instead of sync dropping.

Also, thanks for making this a longer test. More time than a week allows for more data collection.

Each player needs to spend time trying this out. If you leave now, and don't test this out for at least for a week or two, you can't come back to say it didn't work. They need the data to see if it does work. And, if the data shows that this is a bad idea, then we go back to the old method of things.


Don't tell me what I can say Larsh. I've played group queue in the past. I'm not interested in running a group which means I'm at a disadvantage if I get your group while the other team gets a group from MJ12, let alone EMP.

Solo queue can be improved with a skill based MM. But mixing in groups is not going to make my experience better. This is not a win-win change. You win cause you can play with your friends who don't care about winning. I lose because I might get stuck with your group and I _do_ care about winning. I don't need to try this because the best possible solution is no change in my matches, but that assumes I never face a high skill group on the opposing team, or get a low skill group on my team - which as you know is a faulty assumption.

Edited by Anomalocaris, 27 April 2020 - 12:15 PM.


#22 Larsh

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:16 PM

View PostAnomalocaris, on 27 April 2020 - 12:14 PM, said:


Don't tell me what I can say Larsh. I've played group queue in the past. I'm not interested in running a group which means I'm at a disadvantage if I get your group while the other team gets a group from MJ12, let alone EMP.

Solo queue can be improved with a skill based MM. But mixing in groups is not going to make my experience better. This is not a win-win change. You win cause you can play with your friends who don't care about winning. I lose because I might get stuck with your group and I _do_ care about winning. I don't need to try this because the best possible solution is no change in my matches, but that assumes I never face a high skill group on the opposing team - which as you know is a faulty assumption.

let me quote my last sentence for everyone here that seems to miss it every...single...time.

"And, if the data shows that this is a bad idea, then we go back to the old method of things."

#23 Anomalocaris

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:18 PM

View PostLarsh, on 27 April 2020 - 12:16 PM, said:

let me quote my last sentence for everyone here that seems to miss it every...single...time.

"And, if the data shows that this is a bad idea, then we go back to the old method of things."


What data? Do you know what the metrics are? Do you trust Paul to even look at the right metrics? I don't. What's the definition of bad idea? Words without meaning at this point, why don't you demand that Paul clarify his metrics before endorsing this?

#24 Larsh

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:19 PM

View PostAnomalocaris, on 27 April 2020 - 12:18 PM, said:


What data? Do you know what the metrics are? Do you trust Paul to even look at the right metrics? I don't. What's the definition of bad idea? Words without meaning at this point, why don't you demand that Paul clarify his metrics before endorsing this?


For once I'm trusting him to maybe revive a game that is possibly on it's death bed.

Also, why single me out, where there are others on page 1 that are looking forward to this.

Edited by Larsh, 27 April 2020 - 12:21 PM.


#25 Scout Derek

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:19 PM

Since I can't post a gif expressing my feelings on this;

lol, goodbye solo queue.

#26 D U N E

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:19 PM

View PostPaul Inouye, on 27 April 2020 - 10:23 AM, said:


What we are monitoring:
- Match Maker ability to maintain even team building.



I really hope they do this right - only way to balance a powerful group is another powerful group on the other end.

#27 Brauer

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:21 PM

RIP casual drops and solo players

View PostD U N E, on 27 April 2020 - 12:19 PM, said:


I really hope they do this right - only way to balance a powerful group is another powerful group on the other end.


They have not said that they have fixed the MM in any way, so GG

#28 Anomalocaris

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:23 PM

View PostLarsh, on 27 April 2020 - 12:19 PM, said:


For once I'm trusting him to maybe revive a game that is possibly on it's death bed.

Also, why single me out, where there are others on page 1 that are looking forward to this.


Because they just said they like it. You said "if you don't try it you can't say it didn't work". That bothers me. Not to mention I know for damn sure Paul won't be trying it either, yet he's making the decision. A decision based on what? He won't say in advance. I don't trust people like that.

#29 Cluster Fox

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:24 PM

I'm concerned over this bullet point:

Quote

- When the Match Maker builds a 12-player team, it will ensure that there is no more than one 4 player group or as close as possible (2 player + 2 player for example) per team and all remaining slots will be filled with solo players.

Wouldn't it make more sense to try and put as many groups together as possible, then filling up blanks with solos? Now matchmaker would also build solo only games as required. Kind of a matchmaker flipfloping between matching solos or matching groups + filling the blanks. Could simply be based on who's waiting.

The solo game experience would be way less affected, and that seems to be the main worry.

Anyway, looking forward to giving this a try. Next step: player ranking system revamp?

Suggestion : Can the roster display the group in a different coloured background or something?

Oh, and hopefully the MM will not match a 4group + solos against solos only... right?

Edited by Cluster Fox, 27 April 2020 - 12:46 PM.


#30 Bud Crue

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:27 PM

I can't articulate just how big of a horror this is going to be for the vast majority of the causal players that happen to log into play during this mess. You want to drive the population down quickly? This is the way to do it.

#31 Sean Lang

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:30 PM

@Paul, can we get clarification on group tonnages being used?

#32 IshanDeston

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:31 PM

View PostPaul Inouye, on 27 April 2020 - 10:23 AM, said:

We hope that you jump in the queue to experience the change first hand and have matches kick off in a much more reasonable amount of time.


Nope, i am out. I got better things to do with my time than Rofl-Stomped by Premade teams.


I asked you not to force this on me.. to give me the option to opt out... well now i am opting out.

#33 BattleBunny

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:36 PM

8 vs 8 group Q has been great!

this change will not be that great....

solo Q is needed in mwo to make sure ppl dont get stomped over and over again by premade teams.

Now excuse me while i go make a 4 men premade team to play solo Q.

#34 crazytimes

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:41 PM

Savage.

My experience comes from WOT. A competent 2 person platoon (out of 15) could expect to carry ocassionally. A 3 person could expect win rates of upwards of ~75% for the better players. That's at 1/5th of the team. (Or VPA clan at +80%, but they cheat)

Here... At 1/3 of the team, with a tiny server population... I would expect +90% win rate for a competent 4 player lance. Yeah. Sounds fun unless you're not in that lance I suppose.

#35 Belorion

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:41 PM

I am encouraged seeing development move forward on MWO again. MW5 is ok, but I prefer MWO.

#36 Red Potato Standing By

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:44 PM

Yeah I don’t see this going very well. I am potato player enough this is just going to be worse( for good players and bad players). Oh well see what happens I guess.( I agree with others they should fix the tiers first.)

#37 Vorpal Puppy

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:45 PM

4 weeks, huh? Unless this brings back a massive number of casual players to offset the teams that will leave Faction Play for quick "guaranteed win" matches, I'll put the over/under on this getting rolled back at 7 days.

#38 cougurt

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:49 PM

View PostLarsh, on 27 April 2020 - 12:16 PM, said:

let me quote my last sentence for everyone here that seems to miss it every...single...time.

"And, if the data shows that this is a bad idea, then we go back to the old method of things."

we don't need the data to make that determination, any experienced player should already know that this is a bad idea.

View PostLarsh, on 27 April 2020 - 12:19 PM, said:


For once I'm trusting him to maybe revive a game that is possibly on it's death bed.

Also, why single me out, where there are others on page 1 that are looking forward to this.

it IS on its death bed, nothing will revive it at this stage. it either dies, or it dies faster.

#39 nuttyrat

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:49 PM

This is a good move given the circumstances. I appreciate the fact that they are coming at us with a predefined testing window that everyone will be a part of. While I would rather see solo's being able to opt-in to group queue, having this as a test is a good thing.

I just hope that PGI pays attention to match quality and one-sided scores. It will likely require a change to the current matchmaking system (having a solo rank and a group rank) to really flesh out, but they have to start somewhere.

Be sure to keep a player feedback loop going so you can properly measure user satisfaction with the change.

#40 PhoenixFire55

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Posted 27 April 2020 - 12:52 PM

View PostPaul Inouye, on 27 April 2020 - 10:23 AM, said:

- Matches will become more competitive.

Ahahaha. No really. Best joke of the month.





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