1579 replies to this topic

[Anomalocaris]

So let's see where we are so far:

1. Stomps are up according to Russ. Only 5%, but I don't think his solution of dropping tonnage is going to help much.

2. Top groups tend to decide the match, even if the rest of the team potatoes. The stats I've been looking at from screenshots show that a good 4-man will do 50-60% of the total dmg in a match.

3. The matchmaker is now non-existent, or shall we say, it's the group queue matchmaker. That means there are no tier restrictions (cadets dropping with 1%er Tier 1 players, etc.) and there is no tonnage matching. Russ, when asked about matching tonnage better said this on twitter:

"Not anywhere near enough groups and players to take an approach like this."

https://twitter.com/russ_bullock/status/1255986597327015936

Let that sink in for a second. If they want to keep matching groups and solos they can't equalize tonnage.

I usually like being right, feels good. This doesn't. It feels really, really bad.

Edited by Anomalocaris, 30 April 2020 - 05:12 PM.

[Liveish]

You have not played a game, so you can ***** all you like but it means nothing

Is Tonnage the real problem, or is it the skill level, low pop and a exp bar used for MM.

Ash said pages back that top people are not having fun, they why do they keep playing in groups??
if they want to make it harder go 2 man or solo.

[Anjin]

Anomalocaris, on 30 April 2020 - 05:10 PM, said:

So let's see where we are so far:

1. Stomps are up according to Russ. Only 5%, but I don't think his solution of dropping tonnage is going to help much.

2. Top groups tend to decide the match, even if the rest of the team potatoes. The stats I've been looking at from screenshots show that a good 4-man will do 50-60% of the total dmg in a match.

3. The matchmaker is now non-existent, or shall we say, it's the group queue matchmaker. That means there are no tier restrictions (cadets dropping with 1%er Tier 1 players, etc.) and there is no tonnage matching. Russ, when asked about matching tonnage better said this on twitter:

"Not anywhere near enough groups and players to take an approach like this."

https://twitter.com/russ_bullock/status/1255986597327015936

Let that sink in for a second. If they want to keep matching groups and solos they can't equalize tonnage.

I usually like being right, feels good. This doesn't. It feels really, really bad.

...what? Not anywhere near enough groups and players to take a tonnage/weight-matching approach? That's [redcted], considering for solo queue it was at least TRYING before the combination.

[crazytimes]

live1991, on 30 April 2020 - 05:02 PM, said:

So... plan is to tune down max tonnage of 4 person groups. Going to leave 3 and 2 alone for the time being.

Lulz. Tonnage is not the issue. It's putting 4 highly skilled people, often in meta builds, against tier 5 in 3 flamer + 3 ERLL assault buids.

[Paul Inouye]

So, tomorrow at 12PM PDT (Noon) 19:00 UTC, the max tonnage for 4 player groups will be dropped to 260 tons. It will remain here for the duration of the weekend. Will be reviewing match results on Monday and adjust from there.

As mentioned on twitter, there will be times where I will be adjusting some numbers that dictate PSR tier matching... but those will have drastic impacts on queue times.

[Anomalocaris]

live1991, on 30 April 2020 - 05:16 PM, said:

You have not played a game, so you can ***** all you like but it means nothing

Is Tonnage the real problem, or is it the skill level, low pop and a exp bar used for MM.

Ash said pages back that top people are not having fun, they why do they keep playing in groups??
if they want to make it harder go 2 man or solo.

Lol, says the guy who's played what, 200 matches in 3 years? Do you really want to go down that path?

I'm discussing the data. Data provided by PGI and players in games. It doesn't matter if I played a match.

A number of us warned about less competitive matches (rather than the more competitive promised by Paul). Right now that has been confirmed. More stomps already. Not my opinion, PGI data (which I am always suspicious of, but when they admit a problem, well, what's their incentive to lie about that?).

Several people warned that high skill groups would dominate matches, reducing the impact of solos regardless of which side of the win/loss equation they were on. This has also been made obvious by any number of screenshots.

And now we're seeing that the matchmaker no longer worries about Tier (even cadet) or tonnage when making a map, which means things get even more lopsided.

High skill players are still playing because they obviously still like the game at some level, can't drop in group queue any longer (it doesn't exist), and stomping is better than being stomped, at least till you get bored.

[Sjorpha]

Paul Inouye, on 30 April 2020 - 05:26 PM, said:

[color=cyan]As mentioned on twitter, there will be times where I will be adjusting some numbers that dictate PSR tier matching... but those will have drastic impacts on queue times.[/color]

And have you considered adjusting the PSR change calculation so there is no bias towards increasing over time?

Because that is the basic issue with PSR as it stands, the fact that increases towards tier 1 even if you're not above average performance. That should not happen, if you perform average you should approach tier 3 and that's where the majority of the players should end up, the system should be zero sum. Just playing should not increase PSR, only improving should. Tier 1 should only be the top 5-10% of the players or something like that.

Edited by Sjorpha, 30 April 2020 - 05:38 PM.

[Excessive Paranoia]

Sjorpha, on 30 April 2020 - 05:33 PM, said:

And have you considered adjusting the PSR change calculation so there is no bias towards increasing over time?

Because that is the basic issue with PSR as it stands, the fact that increases towards tier 1 even if you're not above average performance. That should not happen, if you perform average you should approach tier 3 and that's where the majority of the players should end up, the system should be zero sum. Just playing should not increase PSR, only improving should.

If they were going to do that, it would have happened years ago when the PSR / Tier system was introduced and we pretty much collectively called them out about its failings...

[Spare Knight]

I am all for players being able to group with their friends and units. It makes sense to do so. On the other hand, I don't enjoy the stomps from either side. I much prefer good fights.

I don't mind a wait time of a minute or two to get a match if the matches are fair. We wait a lot longer than that in Faction Play.

I don't see how a tonnage restriction is going to help. We need Skill Level restriction.

[Liveish]

Anomalocaris, on 30 April 2020 - 05:30 PM, said:

Lol, says the guy who's played what, 200 matches in 3 years? Do you really want to go down that path?

.

100%
I stop playing when group Q died, and solo turned into what we have now.
I came back to give it ago, and solo ( which i hated is better) and i can play with mates. ( most if not all my games in the last 3 years have been in private lobbys, till that stop happeing in the AP)

[Redacted]

[DAEDALOS513]

Excessive Paranoia, on 30 April 2020 - 05:38 PM, said:

If they were going to do that, it would have happened years ago when the PSR / Tier system was introduced and we pretty much collectively called them out about its failings...

This whole thread is filled with suggestions that we've all made in the past, should we stop making them?

[Kamikaze Viking]

Paul Inouye, on 30 April 2020 - 05:26 PM, said:

As mentioned on twitter, there will be times where I will be adjusting some numbers that dictate PSR tier matching... but those will have drastic impacts on queue times.

Thankyou Thankyou Thankyou Paul for looking into the PSR issues and testing a solution!

Edited by Kamikaze Viking, 30 April 2020 - 06:14 PM.

[Constalation]

All these people complaining about "oh no, groups will ruin my games". Meanwhile, people who actually would like to play the bloody game like myself would prefer not having to wait 30 minutes to play a match with one single bloody friend.(He quit because we couldn't play together, brand new too.) Could yall not be complete try hards and let some of us enjoy messing around in groups with weird builds? At least this way matches aren't decided by RNG sync drop luck and there is some semblance of balance. The Matchmaking is bad? At least this ain't Wargaming where skill based matchmaking straight up doesn't exist. Half the problems I see mentioned are issues created by the players themselves, not the mechs or game itself.
Stompers? That is a player problem.
Meta builds? Player problem.
Cooperation? Player problem.
This game has a lot more people who are willing to talk on mic with random people, moreso than any other game I've played and reduces that problem severely.

"I'm not playing the game if solo queue is mixed with 4man group queue", Ok, so **** me and my friend who want to just have stompy stompy robot battles without waiting a literal bloody hour. (We actually queued for a full hour and didn't get a match)

[Bastionk]

@Constalation

Preach!

(Seriously well said)

[C337Skymaster]

Unfortunately, as one of the PUGs who was trying to keep an open mind, it has been closed on me after only a handful of matches. In maybe 5 matches, 4 of them were complete, one-sided stomps. The exception was the game that launched while I was typing this comment, which surprisingly ended 9-12, despite our team only having two Assaults, vs theirs having 7 of them... not sure what that matchmaker is focusing hardest on... I'm one of the same people who voiced support for this idea in the hopes of it being an option in the long-shot event I persuade my wife to play with me. So far, the execution has been everything the naysayers warned about...

[Axys Rageborn]

So after playing some games solo and some in a two man, I still strongly believe that this should be an "OPT in" as opposed to mixing the ques.

Its fun to play yes but the lack of any MM makes it a bit ****. If you come across strong groups its a hard fight and I could see that being quite disheartening for newer or lower ranked players.

I would like to see PSR reset and changed to better reflect players ability (it shouldn't be an XP bar) and then use MM in group que and bring solos across that match up well with groups.

If you are concerned about solos opting in then give them a bonus like increased XP or cbills to make it a viable alternative to just staying solo.

Playing in groups is a better version of the game and players should be funneled in that direction even if they don't want to group up (they don't need too group up either this way) as it really brings home the combat and feel of what MWO is good at.

[50 50]

Paul Inouye, on 30 April 2020 - 05:26 PM, said:

[color=#14171A][color=cyan]So, tomorrow at 12PM PDT (Noon) 19:00 UTC, the max tonnage for 4 player groups will be dropped to 260 tons. It will remain here for the duration of the weekend. Will be reviewing match results on Monday and adjust from there.[/color][/color] [color=#14171a][color=cyan]As mentioned on twitter, there will be times where I will be adjusting some numbers that dictate PSR tier matching... but those will have drastic impacts on queue times.[/color][/color]

Not really seeing how tweaking the tonnage limit on groups is going to help.
Casual players can also make groups. It's not just the other end of town.

We seem to have several other concerns that may be more pressing:
1. Tier 5 players mixed in with Tier 1 players in teams. Tightening up on the variances will be a good step but it is absurdly easy to gain in tier and next to impossible to lose it which means the whole thing is out the window if we are all tier 1 anyway. Simply put, we should not be.
2. We can't expect even matches when you get one team with 8 assaults and the other team with 0. The overall tonnage for the team, or matching per lance or restoring the 3/3/3/3 restriction needs to be looked at.

[Blown Head Gasket]

Ok, my complaint as it is what it is, still is and will remain so is the following...

Lights do not belong in charlie lance, and assaults do not belong in alpha lance. It's nice to be able to drop with friends, even though I have none. Yes, have the group still drop into the same team, but, quit jacking up the lance makup! This has got to be my Biggest, and really only complaint...

[crazytimes]

Swamp *** MkII, on 30 April 2020 - 08:37 PM, said:

Ok, my complaint as it is what it is, still is and will remain so is the following...

Lights do not belong in charlie lance, and assaults do not belong in alpha lance. It's nice to be able to drop with friends, even though I have none. Yes, have the group still drop into the same team, but, quit jacking up the lance makup! This has got to be my Biggest, and really only complaint...

What, the 800 tonne to 400 tonne matchs up don't matter, as long as the mechs are sorted correctly? You're easy to please.

[Zirconium Kaze]

PGI, seriously, this is all a whine fest. Don't cater to losers.