344 replies to this topic

[Thorqemada]

Skill based matchmaking will force the Players into the very best Mechs they have bcs otherwise they will not be able to stand a chance to a Player of similar skill bcs when the skill variable is equal the equiement variable is the decisive part of the equation.
Mech diversity will be minimal - Meta-Meching will be maximal.

[Bud Crue]

I suppose it is pointless to keep posting observations since it sounds like the queue changes are going to be permanent, but wth:

Still trying to experiment with group sizes in an effort to figure out the best way to be able to play together as group of 5-10ish players. It still looks like the best way to be able to play in the same match is to go with teams of 3-mans and 2-mans sync dropping.

We tried two 4s and solos, and while occasionally the 4s would be matched up against one another, more often than not the solos were forced into one or more other matches; but even with just two 4s and no solos more than 50% of the time the teams ended up in different matches. We have also tried to do a bunch of 2-man groups but the vast majority of times we ended split up between 3-4 separate matches (which admittedly suggests that the population is having a bit of an upswing, given that since about last June we never saw more than three solo queue matches going simultaneously on weekdays). We played with the tonnage of the 2-mans and it appeared to have zero impact on our chances of being matched together (e.g. four 2-mans with every one in assaults vs the same 2-mans with players in a variety of different weight classes). Twice we managed three 2s in the same match (two blue, one red), but the majority of the time we didn't get more than two groups in the same match.

In each evening of play we have ended up back as at least one 3-man and one 2-man and every night we seem to get the best chance of being in the same match with that format.

[Nearly Dead]

It needs to be fixed, and quickly.

Since December I have played nearly every day. I have cut back on playing by about half. I play, get disgusted after a few games and stop. If I am a typical solo QPer, and I think I a pretty average, unexceptional guy, MWO is about to experience a population crash.

The only question in my mind is, is it deliberate on PGIs part as they move to shut down MWO or are they going to be surprised by the consequences of their choices?

[Sjorpha]

C337Skymaster, on 12 May 2020 - 06:17 AM, said:

I have NEVER been able to combine torso-twisting and shooting. It's always one or the other, and that handicaps me, severely.

Just wanted to make a quick tip here.

Some players find torso twisting hard because they treat it as a reactive skill, they are trying to torso twist when they get shot, and since this is almost impossible to do they can get the impression that torso twisting is harder than it is.

Torso twisting is not a reactive skill, it is either predictive or habitual. In other words you either incorporate twists as a habitual pattern between shots, or you twist in prediction of which direction the next incoming volley of fire will come from.

There is a similar illusion with aiming.

Having decent aim is mostly about predicting where enemies will be and timing your shots to moments where aiming is easy. In most cases good aim has very little to do with reflexes or superhumanly steady hands or anything like that, even if some people of course have that kind of skills too, it's mostly about understanding where and when you are likely to get good and easy shots on the enemy. This is of course especially true in a slow paced game like MWO, but it's actually true to a large degree in fast paced shooters as well.

Edited by Sjorpha, 13 May 2020 - 06:06 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Nearly Dead, on 13 May 2020 - 05:45 AM, said:

It needs to be fixed, and quickly.

Since December I have played nearly every day. I have cut back on playing by about half. I play, get disgusted after a few games and stop. If I am a typical solo QPer, and I think I a pretty average, unexceptional guy, MWO is about to experience a population crash.

The only question in my mind is, is it deliberate on PGIs part as they move to shut down MWO or are they going to be surprised by the consequences of their choices?

There could be many reasons

Maybe they want MWO dead so they hope they sell more MW5 copies
Maybe they test now stuff and try to figure out what works and what not while they code MWO2 with a new engine
Maybe they are just terrible in balancing and designing

Well, you can only guess

[Nearly Dead]

Weeny Machine, on 13 May 2020 - 08:14 AM, said:

There could be many reasons

Maybe they want MWO dead so they hope they sell more MW5 copies
Maybe they test now stuff and try to figure out what works and what not while they code MWO2 with a new engine
Maybe they are just terrible in balancing and designing

Well, you can only guess

As you say, we can only guess. I cannot imagine relying for my income on selling copies of a single player game when I have an online multi player game in the stable that should be generating an income stream year after year. I don't mind paying to play as long as it isn't manipulative and underhanded micro trans crap, or PTW. Heck, I still have 150 days of premium time ticking away while I don't play.

[Alreech]

Thorqemada, on 13 May 2020 - 04:22 AM, said:

Skill based matchmaking will force the Players into the very best Mechs they have bcs otherwise they will not be able to stand a chance to a Player of similar skill bcs when the skill variable is equal the equiement variable is the decisive part of the equation.
Mech diversity will be minimal - Meta-Meching will be maximal.

Excact that was - and is - the case in Solo Quickplay. Go meta or go down in Tier.
That's the reason i run only full skilled Meta Mechs if I play Solo.

[General Solo]

Meh cannot change their minds.Gonna have to accept and adapt I guess due to stockholm syndrome.
Farming Bad groups, meatshielding my teams groups and capping in a Spider 5V with alt accounts has been fun.
Just the way it is in a team game, use your team to win, be last alive etc, all good stuff.

If you need assistance ask your brother or friend, too busy winning for the pugs to help.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 13 May 2020 - 08:57 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

C337Skymaster, on 12 May 2020 - 06:17 AM, said:

I make a point of running 'mechs with their stock weapon loadouts as much as possible (though I do redistribute armor and upgrade to double heat sinks.

Why? Just curious..

[C337Skymaster]

DAEDALOS513, on 13 May 2020 - 09:45 AM, said:

Why? Just curious..

For the fun of it. For the Lore of it. In large part so every 'mech doesn't wind up being exactly the same with different skins. I think I started doing it after I started reading the TRO's, and the fluff about "Engineers struggled to make this fit" or "Engineers managed to squeeze that on", etc. Then I go back to the game and go "Heavy Gauss on a Firestarter. Wheee!!!" It makes it feel more immersive to run stock 'mechs. Especially stock battlemechs. Omnimechs are designed to be customized, I suppose (and I've even thought it'd give them an "omni" feel to be able to pick from saved configs of that omni chassis after the map/mode vote is concluded and before a drop, as though you're having your tech reconfigure your 'mech aboard the dropship as you decelerate into orbit. Figured that'd give a purpose to IS Omnis that we otherwise won't see because of fixed IS XL engines).

Honestly, meta might be easy to do well in, but stock 'mechs give you a different kind of challenge. Stock 'mechs also frequently give you mixed-range loadouts that give you something to work with in all situations and at all ranges, rather than being locked into doing one thing and getting screwed when the map won't allow it (LRM boat in Solaris City, for example, or SRM/AC20 Atlas on Polar Highlands or Alpine Peaks. Stock Atlas has a LRM 20 to contribute to ranged fights).

That said, now that I've *finally* finished mastering 353 'mechs, my absolute favorite to run in MW2, MW4, and MWO, is the stock TBR-D: 2 ERPPC, 4 SSRM6 (that small laser is an abomination that cropped up when they screwed up how tonnage was calculated, and burns in a special hell. I want Catalyst to fix that crap, too. "Half" means HALF, not "half of the whole number, but retaining the fraction of the full-weight version"). The PPCs provide long-range fire and counter ECM, and the streaks will obliterate anything that gets within 400 m. It doesn't dance like it used to, but it still moves relatively well.

I'm an engineer, myself, and my favorite part of Star Trek, and now Battletech, is trying to reverse engineer fictional technical equipment into real-life physics and technology. Figure out how it "really" works, and the limitations placed on it. That's also why I backpedaled on my opposition to customization in MW5 and realized it was a lot more in keeping with the lore and the universe to be able to completely customize your 'mech, but be limited by EXTREMELY high technician fees, and facility availability (have to fly to only a handful of planets where there's a factory or refit facility, have the 'mech unavailable for months or years while the reconfiguration is completed, depending on how extensive it is, etc). Being able to just hot-swap stuff with no consideration to how it affects everything around it is kinda immersion breaking.

Edited by C337Skymaster, 13 May 2020 - 11:42 AM.

[C337Skymaster]

The only other thing that probably gave me an appreciation for stock loadouts was my playthrough of Ghost Bear's Legacy: the mechlab was glitched and wouldn't save custom loadouts, so I was stuck playing that one with stock 'mechs. That became a REAL problem when I got to the last mission and it required jump jets, but I couldn't customize the chassis I brought with me to add any...

[Weeny Machine]

Bud Crue, on 13 May 2020 - 05:24 AM, said:

I suppose it is pointless to keep posting observations since it sounds like the queue changes are going to be permanent, but wth:

If that's the case, then I hope that they say it soon. Then I am out right away and do not need to wait 3 weeks.

[Anomalocaris]

Weeny Machine, on 13 May 2020 - 12:02 PM, said:

If that's the case, then I hope that they say it soon. Then I am out right away and do not need to wait 3 weeks.

Judging by the way those who don't like the change are being ghosted on company controlled communication channels, I'd say we're close to getting that announcement soon, very soon. And BTW, we're 2 weeks into the test now, so only 2 to go.

[spannerturner]

C337Skymaster, on 12 May 2020 - 11:50 AM, said:

Okay, so that would have been the function of the Arrow IV and Long Tom systems, had PGI decided to include those (I do wish they had, but made them either battlegrid-guided, or TAG-guided, and automatically track to the closest TAG-designated target, kinda like real-world laser-guided munitions).

Thank you for the dates. That will help me, immensely, in tracking down the original play-rules and separating what I know from the MechWarrior titles (all I've ever played) and what comes from TT that I never knew, or never knew correctly. I got my start in MW2, and have only taken an interest in the original TT rules within the past couple years, so I'm still catching up.

Check out Catalyst Game Labs. They are the owners of the TT rules set and you can purchase most of the rulebooks from them in pdf format...

As far as this change in SoloQue. I gave it the better part of 2 weeks, between 2 accounts, and have lost interest and really have no desire to play at this point. I'll check back at the end of the "test" period and if it hasn't been reverted back, then I'll probably move on. I know Russ has pretty much said it's permanent, but one can hope he changes his mind...

[C337Skymaster]

spannerturner, on 13 May 2020 - 03:51 PM, said:

Check out Catalyst Game Labs. They are the owners of the TT rules set and you can purchase most of the rulebooks from them in pdf format...

I've been getting stuff from DriveThruRPG, although I've also been occasionally tracking down 1st editions on eBay. (Okay, I say "occasionally", but I did it once, with TRO 3050. I've been meaning to do it again).

I really wish I could be in charge of making an editing pass on the rules, though. I'd roll back a LOT of changes in fixed omnimech hardpoints, and I'd roll back the stupid half-ton rule, and allow quarter-tons again. It just bugs me to no end that "half" isn't HALF. If an XL engine weighs half of what a Standard engine weighs, and the standard engine weighs 22.5 tons, then the XL engine weighs 11.75 tons. Not 11.5 tons. Not 12 tons. 11.75. Same with Endo Steel and standard structure. Mad Cats are supposed to have 28 tons of pod space, not 27.5, and that change has forced some really stupid edits. That, and some of their solutions to erata completely break the intended appearance of the 'mech.

The spoiler's just for me going off on Catalyst, just so people don't have so far to scroll to get past it.

Spoiler

Rules changes for Catalyst to immediately implement, off the top of my head:

Roll back half-ton rule so that Mad Cats can have 28 tons of pod space again (including letting those 'mechs with quarter-ton pod space amounts have their correct spaces, and use a machine gun to make up the weight, like most of them did, or just let them run underweight. That's not criminal...)

Gargoyle C had 3 A-Pods, even as recently as PGI adding it to MWO. Then Catalyst added the Gargoyle E and messed with the Gargoyle fixed crit slots. They moved two fixed ferro slots from the arms to the legs, one each, and replaced one of the A-Pods with a CT mounted small laser. Just put the ATM ammo in the side torso, or move the Ferro slot to the side torso. Then both builds work, unmolested.

Executioner D was supposed to have a distinctive triangular right arm. 5 small pulse across the bottom, 3 medium pulse across the middle, 1 large pulse at the top. Then they realized they had a ferro crit on that arm, and moved two small pulses to the right side torso, ruining the distinctive arm mount. Rather, that fixed Ferro crit needs to be relocated to the left side torso where it does not interfere with any builds except the -K variant, and that can just relocate a heat sink.

Dire Wolf B was supposed to have all four UAC/2's in "a boxy turret on the left shoulder, with the ammunition in the torso below". They missed the fixed heat sink that's also in that side torso. Easy: put the ammo in the right side torso. Done. Don't ruin the look of the build by splitting two of the UAC/2's into the right side torso as well.

Masakari B: rather than adding an ER Small Laser to the arm with the Gauss Rifle, that should go on the arm with the three ER Medium Lasers in place of one ton of SRM6 (NARC) ammo, and add one ton of Gauss ammo to the arm with the Gauss Rifle. Five tons of ammo is a bit much for two SRM6, doncha think? In TRO 3050, that one didn't have the ERSL at all. It was just 84.5 tons and happy with that, and that's honestly easier to pilot, anyway.

Those are the things that irk me the most about the record sheets. The list of things I'd want to change about MWO is ten times as long, and still ten times shorter than everyone else's.

[ShooterMcGavin80]

ugh... stomps are up.

[Bud Crue]

Weeny Machine, on 13 May 2020 - 12:02 PM, said:

If that's the case, then I hope that they say it soon. Then I am out right away and do not need to wait 3 weeks.

Russ, per his twitter feed on May 6:

"Honestly there isn't much reason to dive deeper as the pop simply won't support the separate queues any longer. It's this or perhaps going to smaller group sizes."

https://twitter.com/...164387300302849

(see also back on page 11 of this thread)

Edited by Bud Crue, 14 May 2020 - 05:09 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

C337Skymaster, on 13 May 2020 - 11:38 AM, said:

Honestly, meta might be easy to do well in, but stock 'mechs give you a different kind of challenge. Stock 'mechs also frequently give you mixed-range loadouts that give you something to work with in all situations and at all ranges, rather than being locked into doing one thing and getting screwed when the map won't allow it (LRM boat in Solaris City, for example, or SRM/AC20 Atlas on Polar Highlands or Alpine Peaks. Stock Atlas has a LRM 20 to contribute to ranged fights).

I know exactly how you feel.. i've gotten to a point where I want to add some new flavour to the game.. meta has become stale as spit and so about a year ago I started converting several of my heavier mechs to work well in all ranges.. it's not only a bigger challenge to do well in (so it's more personally rewarding) but you also have something to shoot at more often.. more action=more fun. You don't do as well as you could have in some matches but when you do, it feels glorious.. much more satisfying and memorable than running another standard meta build because you rocked it in something you created yourself.. (or in your case builds that no one uses). Keep doin your thing!

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 14 May 2020 - 03:18 PM.

[C337Skymaster]

DAEDALOS513, on 14 May 2020 - 08:34 AM, said:

I know exactly how you feel.. i've gotten to a point where I want to add some new flavour to the game.. meta has become stale as spit and so about a year ago I started onverting many of my heavier mechs to work well in all ranges.. it's not only a bigger challenge to do well in (so it's more personally rewarding) but you also have something to shoot at more often.. more action=more fun. You don't do as well as you could have in some matches but when you do, it feels glorious.. much more satisfying and memorable than running another standard meta build because you rocked it in something you created yourself.. (or in your case builds that no one uses). Keep doin your thing!

If you're ever looking for the biggest challenge of the game, there's a stock loadout that even PGI didn't add, and which I can't do better than mediocre in: go look up the loadout for the TBR-B. It can fit on the TBR-C's set-of-8, but it's a ******* of a build that only tabletop could love. Actually, same thing goes for the SMN-A. They're similar builds, and similarly terrible. I have them both in my stable, but they're literally only there for collection purposes, and almost never see the light of day. I play stock, but I try to avoid ****-stock unless it's not mastered, yet.

[Andrzej Lechrenski]

My week 2 experience can be summed up by saying that reiterating the point that many others have made: the Tier system needs to be fixed. I'd much, much, rather wait 5 minutes or more between drops than get an insta-drop with a team of deaf kittens running in a counter-clockwise circle.

Sunday mornings in particular are just awful in that regard. Playing between 12 am - 6 am UTC (8 pm - 2 am EDT or 5 pm - 11 pm PDT) seems to give some pretty fun matches though, particularly because it can be done with friends, so I've been playing about twice as much as I had been in the last 9 months to a year. If drop times 'magically' increased after that due to the precipitous drop in player quality, it would save my blood pressure, along with a good measure of salt.