40 replies to this topic

[Nesutizale]

Just something that I experianced in another game where people of different skill and equipment could form groups.

The bigger the differance in skill between the players is the more the higher player is handycaped.

For example the damage output was lowered and skills where not as effective as they would normaly be.

I wonder if that could be applied to MWO as well so that if the MM can't find enough people for form a fair group more experianced players would get a reduction in damage or the skilltree wouldn't give as much of a bonus.

Could that work? Well under the condition that we have a proper way to determin the skill of a player, lets say by W/L ratio?

Edited by Nesutizale, 15 May 2020 - 10:25 AM.

[Brauer]

Nesutizale, on 15 May 2020 - 10:25 AM, said:

Just something that I experianced in another game where people of different skill and equipment could form groups.

The bigger the differance in skill between the players is the more the higher player is handycaped.

For example the damage output was lowered and skills where not as effective as they would normaly be.

I wonder if that could be applied to MWO as well so that if the MM can't find enough people for form a fair group more experianced players would get a reduction in damage or the skilltree wouldn't give as much of a bonus.

Could that work? Well under the condition that we have a proper way to determin the skill of a player, lets say by W/L ratio?

I don't personally think that's a good or fair way to balance things. I think it would be by far better to have the matchmaker actually attempt to balance teams by skill rather than rely on the tier xp bar.

One of the things I like about this game is that everyone has access to the same tech and skills.

[VonBruinwald]

Brauer, on 15 May 2020 - 10:57 AM, said:

I don't personally think that's a good or fair way to balance things. I think it would be by far better to have the matchmaker actually attempt to balance teams by skill rather than rely on the tier xp bar.

One of the things I like about this game is that everyone has access to the same tech and skills.

This.

As much as I deplore try-hards who rely on meta-builds one of the great things about MWO is everyone has equal access to everything. Nobody is left under gunned because of a secondary game mechanic, everyone plays on equal footing and it's their decisions that create the disparity.

It's far more effective to have a MM that functions properly so there is a minimum skill discrepancy to begin with.

[Brauer]

VonBruinwald, on 15 May 2020 - 11:39 AM, said:

This.

As much as I deplore try-hards who rely on meta-builds one of the great things about MWO is everyone has equal access to everything. Nobody is left under gunned because of a secondary game mechanic, everyone plays on equal footing and it's their decisions that create the disparity.

It's far more effective to have a MM that functions properly so there is a minimum skill discrepancy to begin with.

I assume I'm one of those meta try-hards you deplore and I'm glad we can agree on this.

[Anomalocaris]

Brauer, on 15 May 2020 - 10:57 AM, said:

I don't personally think that's a good or fair way to balance things. I think it would be by far better to have the matchmaker actually attempt to balance teams by skill rather than rely on the tier xp bar.

One of the things I like about this game is that everyone has access to the same tech and skills.

Paging Harrison Bergeron, Harrison Bergeron report to the desk for your mandatory nerf......

[VonBruinwald]

Brauer, on 15 May 2020 - 11:45 AM, said:

I assume I'm one of those meta try-hards you deplore and I'm glad we can agree on this.

Can't argue with logic.

[RickySpanish]

The first problem is that the game doesn't measure "skill" accurately, so the handicap wouldn't be applied correctly. The next problem is that supposedly the reason for not more accurately measuring player skill is that the game population is too low.

In theory, using a handicap is OK assuming that all participants opt into the system, but this would require more queues for those who opt out. It wouldn't be fair to force players to play with a handicap just because they are good.

[Ignatius Audene]

If.u want your bots in easy play single player. MP same chances. This idea doesn't even earn a spiderman meme.

[Nearly Dead]

As pissed off and disgusted as I am with the combined queue, I would not want them to do anything like that. If I were a good player and they did that I would quit instantly and as a 50% player I would not feel good about any victories that I "earned" under those circumstances.

All they have to do is reset the player skill rating, make it a rolling average for a period of time or number of games, and eliminate the upward bias so that players are ranked by how much they contribute to winning games. Then make three or four skill groups and drop them together.

I no longer care if it is my personal pet which is average Damage / mech weight, average damage per match, average Team Score or Win Loss ratio. Any sane measurement would be better than what we have now which has nothing to do with ability, skill or effort.

I checked my Steam purchases last night. I could have bought two, maybe three single player games for what I have put into MWO since December. Not one more penny unless they fix this mess.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

handycaps?

seems that in 2 teams of 12, there's plenty of handycaps per game already, right? ;-)
*at least half-way joking*

no, "punishing" people for getting good at something is the completely wrong way to do it - imagine the same in school. .. yeah, right.
nah, a working matchmaker, that distributes the good, the bad and lots of uglies as evenly as possible over 2 sides .. that's what you need.


but PGI like how they do it and have so for years .. even if nobody else, including the paying customers, likes it.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 15 May 2020 - 01:47 PM.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Thing is the good players are good for a reason, even if you do handicap their mechs or weapons they will still roll over the majority of players. fix The psr leave the mechs alone.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Just remove QP and keep FW only. Reduce the group size from 12 to 4. Problem solved.

[Warning incoming Humble Dexterer]

-5% damage per grouped player, applies to every player in the group, done.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Warning incoming Humble Dexterer, on 15 May 2020 - 07:18 PM, said:

-5% damage per grouped player, applies to every player in the group, done.

And you guys would still complain that they're OP

[thievingmagpi]

there are a lot of really bad players who play in groups... that's not going to help them at all.

Imagine being newish to the game, wanting to learn it and drop with your friends and you get a flat %5 nerf. Instant uninstall.

[Brain Cancer]

Nothing like rewarding people getting better by attempting to make them worse.

[thievingmagpi]

has there ever been a game that's ever attempted to shame being good as much as mwo does?

[Davegt27]

OP in an old NGNG pod cast the then lead designer was asked a similar question

and he said they give new players a boost

so electronically boosting players already happens (unless they ended it)

we just dont know all the details

[LordNothing]

i don't see any problem with teams so far. the few true 4 mans (as in of the same unit tag), ive seen have all been terrible. one team all ended up with <100 scores, while all the pugs were pulling 200 at a minimum. so it would appear its not breaking the matchmaker, as it stands (i still maintain that psr is a terrible measure of skill, but that's not strictly a team related problem).

[LordNothing]

thievingmagpi, on 15 May 2020 - 08:51 PM, said:

has there ever been a game that's ever attempted to shame being good as much as mwo does?

good players deserve their top spots, but that's no reason to match them up with a bunch of taters. nobody has a good game there, unless the player in question is the sort of emotional cripple that needs their ego stroked with artificial success (may as well give them a participation trophy as well). ensuring that opponents are equally matched makes the game fun for everyone. theres a reason most pro sports have their own skill brackets.

symmetric psr or bust.

Edited by LordNothing, 15 May 2020 - 10:49 PM.