717 replies to this topic

[Bistrorider]

Well, at least something is going on.

[Eatit]

Problem -

Matches are unbalanced.

Causes of Problem -

PSR is basically an XP bar. Low population MM is pulling from all tiers.

Proposed Solution -

Change the way the tiers are decided.

Outcome -

All matches will still be unbalanced due to Low population MM pulling from all tiers. Change the tiers all you want it will still be the same as the MM uses all of the tiers to create a match. The valves are wide open and will remain wide open.


Alternate Solution -

Others have posted a better solution that is to change the MM to create teams for the matches in an A-B-A-B... manner. Highest tier player gets added to team A, next highest tier player gets added to team B, and so on until you have two equally matched teams.

This will create two evenly matched teams of people from all of the tiers. Each of the teams will contain the same number of players from each of the tiers.

*edited for spelling

Edited by Eatit, 09 June 2020 - 11:46 AM.

[The Ghost Walker]

I like the potential decoupling of team win/loss other than as part of the calculated match score for determining PSR adjustment.
This allows the better players (the ones who contribute the most to the team) to gain ranking and provides and incentive against suicide runs and rage quits.

[Eatit]

I have read every single post in here and it seems as though most everyone wants the issue to be resolved. The issue being unbalanced matches.

The proposed resolution is to better sort the player base into appropriate Tiers. Unfortunately due to the way the Match Maker creates matches it won't help. The MM grabs the first 24 people that are in the Tiers allowed and sorts based on mech size. Currently Tiers 4-1 are allowed to be matched together due to low population. The sort doesn't take PSR or Tier into account. It only takes mech size into account.

The Match Maker needs to make a second determination based on PSR. This becomes quite complicated as it has to sort by 2 variables now, Mech Size and Player Skill. The MM needs to put an equal number of players from each tier on each team. This will require quite a bit of programming skill to pull off. If it's even possible within the constraints of the current code.

Getting everyone in the appropriate Tier is a good start but you will also have to make changes to the MM to create evenly matched teams during low population. This is not a single solution problem. This is a combination problem.

I made this post to clarify my earlier post. I hope that someone with the ability to fix this issue sees this post and acts accordingly.

[Salty Seas]

Two Thumbs Up for this !!
I hope it gets implemented...it's much better than what we have now.

[Impp]

Please weight the score for light and medium mechs a little higher then present. If you don't you probably wont see many in que.

[Eatit]

Lockheed_, on 09 June 2020 - 12:30 PM, said:

I agree with you it will be difficult to create more even matches, however I am still excited the way this is headed, here's why:
If they are willing to rework the matchmaker for about 1.500 players and for a game that does no longer get more content in terms of maps and mechs, then there's a good chance that the rework of the matchmaking system will be done with MWO 2.0 in mind. The matchmaking system was one of major talking points over the years, so if they now create a sytem together with the community and use it for MWO 2.0 this creates and excellent sales argument.

I agree that working with the community is a good thing. It may very well be an excellent sales argument IF they do it right. Right now they don't seem to understand the full breadth of the issue. They are only working on fixing one segment of the multi-segment issue. If When they don't fully fix the issue by only addressing a portion of it, it will diminish the sales argument considerably. They need to look at both parts of the issue to make the correct fix.

[Zulu211]

As laid out, there's absolutely no reason to work toward a win. This breakdown screams "Bring an Assault LRM, hide in the back and last as long as you can to pad that score." To hell with the win, to hell with the team, pad that score.

Reduce the score for damage by LRM outside 500 meters and this might have a chance. As it stands, nope.

Edited by Zulu211, 09 June 2020 - 01:14 PM.

[SirHavan]

Zerex, on 09 June 2020 - 03:36 AM, said:

This Graph?



That leads to players gaining PSR over other players that lost PSR even thou performing better in the match.

I think it will even out over time, the better players will increase until they are playing with similar skill players and then hover - that should be the point, right?

[Ridir Semii]

Zulu211, on 09 June 2020 - 01:14 PM, said:

As laid out, there's absolutely no reason to work toward a win. This breakdown screams "Bring an Assault LRM, hide in the back and last as long as you can to pad that score." To hell with the win, to hell with the team, pad that score.

Reduce the score for damage by LRM outside 500 meters and this might have a chance. As it stands, nope.

you will see this I am sure.... you will also see an increase in triple and quad ams mechs, basically making those lrmboats lunch for any light mech pilot

[FknPrycK]

Paul Inouye, on 08 June 2020 - 02:52 PM, said:

win - Base value for winning.
loss - Base value for losing.
teamkills - Loss for team killing.
spottingassist - Gain for spotting an enemy and that enemy takes damage. (Press R)
componentdestroyed - Gain for destroying a component on an enemy.
death - Loss for dying.
capturewin - Bonus gain for winning by capture.
captureassist - Gain for helping others capture a capture point by being in the capture radius.
suicide - Loss for suiciding.
saviorkill - Gain for helping a teammate under fire and you get the kill shot on his highest damaging opponent.
defensivekill - Gain for helping a teammate under fire and you get the kill shot on an opponent damaging them.
uavkill - Gain for any kills happening under a UAV you deployed.
uavlockeddmg - Gain for any damage done to a target that is under your UAV.
uavdetection - Gain for any new enemy detected by your UAV.
counterECM - Gain for countering enemy ECM.
counterECMLockedDmg - Gain for damage done to enemies under your counter ECM.
turretkill - Gain for killing a turret.
killblow - Gain for getting the killing blow on your enemy.
killassist - Gain for damage done to enemies upon kill but you didn't explicitly get the kill shot.
teamdmg - Loss for team damage done.
damagedone - Gain for damage done to enemies.
killmostdmg - Gain for getting the kill shot and you did the most damage to your enemy.
solokill - Gain for killing an enemy without the assistance of your teammates.
scouting - Gain for targeting enemies without damage being done.
flanking - Gain for being out of LoS to your enemy and behind enemy line.
capture - Gain for capturing a capture zone.
capturepulse - Gain for time you are capturing in a capture zone.
firstcapture - Gain for capturing the first capture zone in a match.
brawling - Gain for being in combat agaist multiple opponents.
tagdmg - Gain for any damage done to an enemy you have tagged.
tagkill - Gain for any kill done to an enemy you have tagged.
narckill - Gain for any kill done to an enemy you have narced.
hitandrun - Gain for attacking an enemy and escaping their LoS for an amount of time.
tagstealth - Gain for tagging an enemy behind enemies and not being targeted by them.
lanceformation - Gain for time spent near lancemates.
protectmedium - Gain for killing an enemy who is attacking a medium class teammate.
protectlight - Gain for killing an enemy who is attacking a light class teammate.
protectproximity - Gain for killing an enemy who is near any teammate.
powercell_pickup - Gain for picking up a power cell.
powercell_dropoff - Gain for dropping off a power cell.
incrusion_destruction - Gain for destroying objective objects in Incursion.
kill_powercell_carrier - Gain for killing a power cell carrier.
ams_missile_destroyed - Gain for missiles destroyed by your AMS system.
 
matchscore_scale - A multiplier used to reduce the sum of all match score activity to keep numbers reasonable.

So this will be implemented when yall make MWO using Unreal Engine? *wink wink* *nudge nudge*

[Saint OZ]

Dont forget guys that skill is not only matchscore. There is another important values like accuracy, ability to spread damage etc.

[Eatit]

What is the point of moving people around in the tiers. Let's say 50% of tier 1 gets moved to tier 3. The people that got moved will still be matched with the tier 1's due to low population.

The match maker does not separate the two team based on psr or tier. It sorts the team based on mech size.

In the current and proposed system one team can have all tier 1 and the other team all tier 4. The unbalanced teams will continue because balance is based on luck of the draw not on player skill/tier.

They need to fix both problems to fix the problem. If they only get people in the correct tier it won't change anything.

[Zerex]

SirHavan, on 09 June 2020 - 01:31 PM, said:

I think it will even out over time, the better players will increase until they are playing with similar skill players and then hover - that should be the point, right?

It could... if this happens in 1% of matches, if this is happening in 15-20% of matches, no it will never balance out right. As i have said its not the worst system and i do think it would by and large work correctly, but there are better systems that are just as easy to implement.

[Isaiah Kell]

Thanks!

[Horseman]

Saint OZ, on 09 June 2020 - 02:02 PM, said:

Dont forget guys that skill is not only matchscore. There is another important values like accuracy, ability to spread damage etc.

Which lead to matchscore anyway. Accuracy translates to damage and kills. Ability to spread damage translates to more scoring opportunities.

[Eatit]

SirHavan, on 09 June 2020 - 01:31 PM, said:

I think it will even out over time, the better players will increase until they are playing with similar skill players and then hover - that should be the point, right?

No it won't even out. All the tiers play together right now. It won't matter what tier you are in you will still be playing with everyone else. Players will still be put into teams based on mech size not on tier. The teams will still be unbalanced. If the population was large enough that the MM could make matches pulled from a single tier or two then sure it may balance out. But it can't because there aren't enough players.

The better players will still be playing with everyone else. As long as population remains low they will never only play each other.

[H311FR0G]

I am all for either the previous plan or this one. You could also just adjust the current system so that sub 100 match scores go down in a win much like the 400+ goes up in a loss? This adjustment would quite possibly be able to be implemented without a reset as well.

[spannerturner]

@Paul Inouye:

If you plan on doing a PSR that has a "no change" section based on that match's MS, then you may want to consider resetting everyone's PSR to Tier 3. That way those that consistently net a negative PSR in matches will go down, those that net a positive PSR will go up, and the no changers will stay at Tier 3. Otherwise, if you start everyone out at Tier 5, those who score well enough that end up in the "no change" range will be stuck with the net negative PSR players since the net negative players will have no ground to lose.

[DickTricky]

This proposal sounds better than the last, provided that this score distribution also translates into cbill and experience distribution [color=#222222]based on performance[/color] regardless of win loss. This is one of the things we've been asking for for years now. It still won't fix the matchmaker that reprimands better players. The better we perform, the more we get teamed with less experienced players. If you don't think this affects the better players performance being grouped with the potato patch think again. When I'm grouped with several new players and they hide or don't fight or shoot their teammates, I end up fighting multiple opposition simultaneously on a constant basis. This will generally result in early retirement. This is compounded when I decide to take a new unskilled mech into battle. I realize the top tier players are a small demographic out of the player base. But wouldn't it just be better to just group players randomly regardless of skill level. I think this would be better for the top tier players. Instead of constantly being handicapped. The law of averages would come to the forefront and we likely wouldn't be handicapped every game.

I could elaborate more but I'm tired.