357 replies to this topic

[L1f3H4ck]

technopredator, on 23 June 2020 - 11:25 AM, said:

What happened to the freaking patch? It was announced on Reddit and Twitter, 2C was the winner, then do the reset put the PSR+Queue system and take it from there, why there is a delay now?
https://www.reddit.c...tch_2c_was_the/

Don't believe everything you read on reddit. And the "update" Paul mentioned on twitter means new info, not a patch. Don't blame PGI just cuz you apparently can't read properly.

[Xaat Xuun]

OneTeamPlayer, on 23 June 2020 - 10:25 AM, said:

Well slap me hard and call me credulous. Servers are back up, but my tier is still the same. Silly me for expecting to see the change we were sold on over a month ago implemented today based on a twitter post by a developer (the head developer?) of this game.

do we need the tier titles Still ? with the change

and was it really added ?

[L1f3H4ck]

Xaat Xuun, on 23 June 2020 - 12:02 PM, said:

do we need the tier titles Still ? with the change

and was it really added ?

Yes, Tiers will have to be reset, whether they'r actually necessary... big can of worms. Nothing has haopened yet, more info will be posted some time today

Edited by Dakkalistic, 23 June 2020 - 12:14 PM.

[Nearly Dead]

Obviously nothing changed in PSR, possibly gathering data to cede players into tiers when the reset happens.

I still see T3 in my profile.

Just played three matches,

M1, Win, I was third from the bottom TS on our team, PSR up.

M2, Loss, I was top scorer on our team with two kills, PSR no change.

Good news is that Lost Art Press shipped me the book on workshop fixtures that I ordered last week, and Menards had a sale on 1/2" Baltic birch plywood offcuts over the weekend. Takes care of the whole idle hands thing.

[OneTeamPlayer]

So there was no change, and there's no update by 5PM EST.

Any other company would release major information in the morning, or at least before noon but PGI is forward thinking enough to operate outside of normal business hours i suppose.

You know what helps keep a community on-message?

Actually communicating with your community on the platform you own and control instead of on twitter.

Who would give two shakes enough about another "written update" which amounts to nothing more than a teaser trailer at this point to put up a twitter announcement of an announcement? That's dumb as hell after, and i cannot stress this enough, over a month of announcement after announcement with no actual action and a previous deadline in early june which saw no changes, but rather weeks more discussion?

If PGI was actually ready to implement a change in system in early June they'd already long have had whatever was needed in place to make the same change, except the variables which don't take a day to input into a system pre-set to be tweaked on the fly.

This whole business is looking less like "community input" and more like stalling because the system they claimed was ready weeks ago never existed.

Answer this, after sending out a tweet, how long does it take to type an update and post it to the forums if that was the original plan?

Something doesn't add up about this sequence of events at all.

[John Bronco]

They are west coast and usually post updates end of the day. [redacted]

Edited by Ekson Valdez, 23 June 2020 - 02:37 PM.

[Ekson Valdez]

Please, stay constructive. Thank you!

[RRAMIREZ]

new thread:
https://mwomercs.com...ity-version-10/

[Last Of The Brunnen-G]

Two things i want to mention.

First, the influence of damage to the matchscore is as you just mentioned high. Make it dependend on tonnage. Heavier mechs are supposed to make more damage.

20*damage/(20+tonnage)

This could be a good starting point for a formula that allows lighter mechs to get an higher matchscore with the same damage output. Of course sometimes lights make a lot of damage, but statisticly heavier mechs make more damage.

Second, the influence of higher tiers to performance of players can be smoothend by adding more tiers and allowing the matchmaker to match a broader range of tiers together. Nothing hinders you to make 10+ tiers. Or name them like AAA, AA, A, B, C, D, E, F. Maybe F is a bid to harsh... ;-)
This would allow a player to keep performing on a similar level when getting in a higher tier.

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Tier is just fancy brush anyway. MM uses PSR range and it doesn't get more granular than that.

[Sawk]

Hi Paul and everyone i will vote 1-B. it is much more fair, so moving on to the kickers.
i'll use % of to value things.
Kills should be tops getting 15 to 20%
Damage should be 10 to 15%
Assist should be 10 to 15% shows folks are doing things for the team linked to damage
the saves, staying in formation, flanking 1 to 10 %, i know there is lots of them.
Now the 1 thing that stands out is you put a UP or Down of a match score of 250, for going up i think, i would lower this to 225, you can look at the leader board and cleary see it clusters right there, for everyone.
the next is a bit fuzzy for me because the old system seemed to have a limit of 400 damage for up and down, i guess as it relates to match score of the old system, but if the is such a CAP for damage up and down i would put that around 250, when i play thru all the tiers old system, most folks were lower then 200, and a lot of guys learning lights were 150, yes i understand for some old folks 500 to 600 + can be done. trying to be nice to any new folks coming in, which we need : )

Sawk

[evlkenevl]

All I know is: I am currently Tier 1, and I should never be Tier 1. Specifically, I do not have the reaction times, situational awareness or steady hands to be worthy of being grouped into the same tier as players who actually deserve to be in Tier 1. I applaud the efforts of PGI in addressing the problems that the old PSR system had, but it took me about as long to make Tier 1 in the new system as it did in the old. The climb from Tier 2 to Tier 1 needs to be a LOT more difficult. I'm not hating on myself, mind you. I being subjective. I'm a solid Tier 2, but nowhere near the level of b0wser (speeling?) and many others that truly deserve the Tier 1 classification.

[crazytimes]

evlkenevl, on 30 September 2020 - 12:43 AM, said:

All I know is: I am currently Tier 1, and I should never be Tier 1. Specifically, I do not have the reaction times, situational awareness or steady hands to be worthy of being grouped into the same tier as players who actually deserve to be in Tier 1. I applaud the efforts of PGI in addressing the problems that the old PSR system had, but it took me about as long to make Tier 1 in the new system as it did in the old. The climb from Tier 2 to Tier 1 needs to be a LOT more difficult. I'm not hating on myself, mind you. I being subjective. I'm a solid Tier 2, but nowhere near the level of b0wser (speeling?) and many others that truly deserve the Tier 1 classification.

Its notionally the upper 20%. Given it still has an upwards bias as there is a 3 tier spread for MM, there is no barrier for anyone above average to just grinding out tier 1. Source- this guy. I am a solid 75th percentile, yet I'm about 3 good games away from maxing tier bar. With almost no AMS or LRM boating.

As long as you realise there is a big difference between "tier 1" and "actually really good"- which you do- then who cares? Certainly not PGI. Just enjoy the 3 minute wait to end up in tier 3 matches with cadets anyhow that tier 1 brings.

Edited by crazytimes, 01 October 2020 - 01:31 AM.

[Gagis]

evlkenevl, on 30 September 2020 - 12:43 AM, said:

All I know is: I am currently Tier 1, and I should never be Tier 1. Specifically, I do not have the reaction times, situational awareness or steady hands to be worthy of being grouped into the same tier as players who actually deserve to be in Tier 1. I applaud the efforts of PGI in addressing the problems that the old PSR system had, but it took me about as long to make Tier 1 in the new system as it did in the old. The climb from Tier 2 to Tier 1 needs to be a LOT more difficult. I'm not hating on myself, mind you. I being subjective. I'm a solid Tier 2, but nowhere near the level of b0wser (speeling?) and many others that truly deserve the Tier 1 classification.

The tier system is not very granular. I checked your stats on Jarl's list and it says you perform somewhere at better than 80% of all players which should legitimately put you in tier 1. There still a VERY wide gap between 80% and someone with 95% but we have just 5 tiers and both happen to fall into the box labeled #1.

The average player in MWO is consistently making glaringly obvious mistakes, so you feeling like you have a lot of room for improvement and still performing better than most players makes sense.

Edited by Gagis, 01 October 2020 - 04:34 AM.

[Kano111]

Gagis, on 01 October 2020 - 04:33 AM, said:

The tier system is not very granular. I checked your stats on Jarl's list and it says you perform somewhere at better than 80% of all players which should legitimately put you in tier 1. There still a VERY wide gap between 80% and someone with 95% but we have just 5 tiers and both happen to fall into the box labeled #1.

The average player in MWO is consistently making glaringly obvious mistakes, so you feeling like you have a lot of room for improvement and still performing better than most players makes sense.

Yeah I'm a solid T2 player but have dipped between T1 and T2 for the past few weeks. I have been playing since about May and generally I slip when I buy a new mech and experiment with builds etc. Have been playing since about May this year so it is pretty intimidating playing with the long time T1 players. I have noticed that some times/days there are a lot of lower tier players (and Cadets) mixed in with T1 well known players.. How does this work? Is there simply not enough people playing to spread the Tiers out?

Overall I would say I have enjoyed the games with higher tier players more than the mixed ones. Generally people play more predictably in the higher tiers and are more vocal, which allows me to not stand out like a sore thumb when I'm not sure what to do.. Instead I can get to where I need to be and do my part for the team.

Edited by Kano111, 04 October 2020 - 06:14 PM.

[Flying Fox 333]

Kano111, on 04 October 2020 - 06:13 PM, said:

I have noticed that some times/days there are a lot of lower tier players (and Cadets) mixed in with T1 well known players.. How does this work? Is there simply not enough people playing to spread the Tiers out?

Note: This is from what PGI has mentioned previously and was prior to the changes to the tier calculation in recent months.

Originally tier separation was supposed to be no more than 2 levels apart i.e. tier 4 can't play against tier 1. However in practice the matchmaker is more granular and uses our elo scores to match two teams together. Groups waiting in queue have extra conditions. They are supposed to be matched against other comparable groups of similar averaged elos. However if the group is difficult to match, after a period of time the release valves open and they will be matched against what is best available at that time, in order to produce a match.

Under the recent change to tier calculation all cadets start at tier 3 now apparently. A certain amount of intial matches played accelerate the change in tier depending on how well the player performs to try and move them to their appropiate tier faster. I am not sure if this is still true though.

I am sure somebody else can probably add more regarding this.

[crazytimes]

Quote

Originally tier separation was supposed to be no more than 2 levels apart i.e. tier 4 can't play against tier 1. However in practice the matchmaker is more granular and uses our elo scores to match two teams together.

A match is made up of the first 24 people within a 3 tier spread. It isn't using much more maths than that.

Quote

Groups waiting in queue have extra conditions. They are supposed to be matched against other comparable groups of similar averaged elos.

Not a thing. 4 manners of +99% players get matched against 12 solos. Provided they are within the 3 tier spread, Working As Intended.

Quote

A certain amount of intial matches played accelerate the change in tier depending on how well the player performs to try and move them to their appropiate tier faster. I am not sure if this is still true though.

Was never a thing.

[Horseman]

crazytimes, on 06 October 2020 - 11:50 PM, said:

A match is made up of the first 24 people within a 3 tier spread. It isn't using much more maths than that.

In theory it does. In practice, tighter matchmaking was slower so people whined that they don't care if they get stomped if they can get matches faster.
And they got EXACTLY what they wished for.

Before that, when it was limited to max 2 tiers (1-2, 2-3, 3-4, 4-5) the matchmaking was slower but match quality was VASTLY superior.

[RRAMIREZ]

Horseman, on 07 October 2020 - 01:06 AM, said:

In practice, tighter matchmaking was slower so people whined that they don't care if they get stomped if they can get matches faster.

Totaly agree, except that IIRC T1 (and at that moment they were not as many as today) complained the most... (and T5 in a lesser proportion)

So maybe change to "people whined they don't care if they sealclub T3 Cadets"...

or just maybe "people whined"

Edited by RRAMIREZ, 07 October 2020 - 01:18 AM.

[multisoul]

it always sucks to push to win and then loose tier